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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:

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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:
It gets old man... Hearing this type of shit "man shot by police while reaching for hotdog" We see it all too often, trigger happy cops.... Or what about the BART shooting? How do you explain that? Case and point if the officer cannot distinguish an immediate threat then there is no justification to open fire. You cant shoot people based on assumptions, If every cop reacted to a threat that way then there would be a hell of alot more police related homicides here in the US. you can see in the video that when the guy came out from the truck that he did not have a gun, though he had a knife the officer still had ample time to retreat for cover rather than use deadly force... And also officers are not trained too "UNLOAD" their weapons... maybe in Columbia or sinaloa mexico but not here in the US.

Either way, sad stuff RIP.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

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From what I read in that definition and what I saw in that video, it seems to me that the officer shot too early...

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Not if you look at the stills of the video, you can see the knife in the guys hand and he hasn't been shot yet. Its definitely sad but knowing the guys history, the way he acted and what he had in his hand, it was a justified shooting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247514/Graphic-footage-police-officer-fatally-shooting-man-ELEVEN-times-outside-home-released-day-cop-cleared-wrongdoing.html?ito=feeds-new sxml

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:

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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:

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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:
It gets old man... Hearing this type of shit "man shot by police while reaching for hotdog" We see it all too often, trigger happy cops.... Or what about the BART shooting? How do you explain that? Case and point if the officer cannot distinguish an immediate threat then there is no justification to open fire. You cant shoot people based on assumptions, If every cop reacted to a threat that way then there would be a hell of alot more police related homicides here in the US. you can see in the video that when the guy came out from the truck that he did not have a gun, though he had a knife the officer still had ample time to retreat for cover rather than use deadly force... And also officers are not trained too "UNLOAD" their weapons... maybe in Columbia or sinaloa mexico but not here in the US.

Either way, sad stuff RIP.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

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From what I read in that definition and what I saw in that video, it seems to me that the officer shot too early...

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Not if you look at the stills of the video, you can see the knife in the guys hand and he hasn't been shot yet. Its definitely sad but knowing the guys history, the way he acted and what he had in his hand, it was a justified shooting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2247514/Graphic-footage-police-officer-fatally-shooting-man-ELEVEN-times-outside-home-released-day-cop-cleared-wrongdoing.html?ito=feeds-new sxml

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Justified or not, I still think that it couldve been avoided or handled differently.. No matter if the dude was a drug addict gang member or not, does not mean that he should be shot down like a dog.. Also to be clear, I have no affiliation or relationship to that of the deceased. Just sharing my couple pennies... Here is a hypothetical question I want you to answer for me... " Say you and a group of friends head to the lake to enjoy a BBQ, everyone is having a good time. Then another group of people shows up and sets up not far. An argument ensues and a fight breaks out, a member from the opposing party that is an off duty cop pulls out a gun and shoots your friend in the head and kills him because he thought your friend was reaching for a gun, but your friend was only reaching for a cell phone".... Is that Okay or Not?

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:
say he was on duty under the same circumstances and shot and killed your friend in the same hypothetical scenario that i provided.... Would he still be at fault or would it be justified?

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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:
say he was on duty under the same circumstances and shot and killed your friend in the same hypothetical scenario that i provided.... Would he still be at fault or would it be justified?

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Your question is not a good one.
Was my friend reaching into his car to get his cell phone?
Was the cop with the other group or not?
Did the cop say freeze, show me your hands?
Where was my friend?
Why was the cop there?
Was my friend getting beat up at the time he was reaching for his cell phone?
Was the cop doing the beating?
Do me and my friend know hes a cop?
I need way more specifics.

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Look, nice job in finding the only flaw in my question to avoid answering it.. I'll give you that... but either way we know where you stand and we know were I stand... 2 different views and perspectives. I can appreciate that but my point was by asking that question was to see what you would say if someone you knew was in similar circumstances, maybe that concept was too complex for you to understand but you do not seem stupid to me and seem like you might have decent perception so I thought you would be able to understand the point I was trying to get across...

[ December 14, 2012, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: ILLMNRD86 ]

posted                                

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:

quote:

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Originally posted by Wildfire532FB:

quote:

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Originally posted by ILLMNRD86:
say he was on duty under the same circumstances and shot and killed your friend in the same hypothetical scenario that i provided.... Would he still be at fault or would it be justified?

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Your question is not a good one.
Was my friend reaching into his car to get his cell phone?
Was the cop with the other group or not?
Did the cop say freeze, show me your hands?
Where was my friend?
Why was the cop there?
Was my friend getting beat up at the time he was reaching for his cell phone?
Was the cop doing the beating?
Do me and my friend know hes a cop?
I need way more specifics.

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Look, nice job in finding the only flaw in my question to avoid answering it.. I'll give you that... but either way we know where you stand and we know were I stand... 2 different views and perspectives. I can appreciate that but my point was by asking that question was to see what you would say if someone you knew was in similar circumstances, maybe that concept was too complex for you to understand but you do not seem stupid to me and seem like you might have decent perception so I thought you would be able understand the point I was trying to get across...

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Originally posted by LXjames:
You know what I stated that incorrectly. I think people directly from that neighborhood not including family or friends I was picked as a jury member for a murder in Richmond. I didn't want shit to do with it like come on now I live in Pitt pick someone who's actually affected by the situation

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Originally posted by a302juGRnot:
just saw both vids and its hard to say. i think the cop was scared to begin with and the dude should have listened to him. pple arent perfect including cops and criminals. both made a mistake but the cops mistake was done because the guy made the mistake of not putting his hands up.

i gotta say though is that 13 shots is excessive. i dont know if thats how they are trained to do but in that distance, i dont think 13 shots are necessary. if your that close, i think only a few are enough to put your threat down.

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Originally posted by fredfifty:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121212/A_NEWS/121219977

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MANTECA - The San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office has determined that the officer-involved shooting death of Ernesto Duenez last year was legally justified.

The District Attorney's Office, the Manteca Police Department and the California Department of Justice conducted a joint protocol investigation into the death of Duenez, 35, who was killed June 8, 2011, in the 200 block of Flores Avenue. The investigation, which included an analysis of Manteca police Officer John Moody's in-car audio and video unit, showed that Duenez was armed with an 8-inch, fixed-blade knife, the District Attorney's Office said.

Duenez was told to put his "hands up" and "drop the knife now," but he ignored repeated orders, the District Attorney's Office said. Moody then said, "Ernie, don't you move or I'll shoot you" and issued two more unheeded commands before opening fire, the District Attorney's Office said.

An autopsy showed Duenez was struck by 11 bullets, including one to the head, and that he had amphetamines and methamphetamine in his system when he died, the District Attorney's Office said.

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Originally posted by 92MaroonGT:

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Originally posted by fredfifty:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121212/A_NEWS/121219977

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MANTECA - The San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office has determined that the officer-involved shooting death of Ernesto Duenez last year was legally justified.

The District Attorney's Office, the Manteca Police Department and the California Department of Justice conducted a joint protocol investigation into the death of Duenez, 35, who was killed June 8, 2011, in the 200 block of Flores Avenue. The investigation, which included an analysis of Manteca police Officer John Moody's in-car audio and video unit, showed that Duenez was armed with an 8-inch, fixed-blade knife, the District Attorney's Office said.

Duenez was told to put his "hands up" and "drop the knife now," but he ignored repeated orders, the District Attorney's Office said. Moody then said, "Ernie, don't you move or I'll shoot you" and issued two more unheeded commands before opening fire, the District Attorney's Office said.

An autopsy showed Duenez was struck by 11 bullets, including one to the head, and that he had amphetamines and methamphetamine in his system when he died, the District Attorney's Office said.

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RIP and sorry for your loss.

Honestly, The situation could have been prevented by him just cooperating. At first I thought he was going to run, until he turned back into the truck. Drugs and background have a lot to do with this.

But IMO,

1. 8" knife in hand
2. Disobeying what seems to be several commands by a police officer.
3. Doped up with amphetamines.

I would've shot him too. Maybe not 11 times, but I still would've shot him.

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Originally posted by x Raelsmar x:

quote:

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Originally posted by 92MaroonGT:

quote:

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Originally posted by fredfifty:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121212/A_NEWS/121219977

quote:

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MANTECA - The San Joaquin County District Attorney's Office has determined that the officer-involved shooting death of Ernesto Duenez last year was legally justified.

The District Attorney's Office, the Manteca Police Department and the California Department of Justice conducted a joint protocol investigation into the death of Duenez, 35, who was killed June 8, 2011, in the 200 block of Flores Avenue. The investigation, which included an analysis of Manteca police Officer John Moody's in-car audio and video unit, showed that Duenez was armed with an 8-inch, fixed-blade knife, the District Attorney's Office said.

Duenez was told to put his "hands up" and "drop the knife now," but he ignored repeated orders, the District Attorney's Office said. Moody then said, "Ernie, don't you move or I'll shoot you" and issued two more unheeded commands before opening fire, the District Attorney's Office said.

An autopsy showed Duenez was struck by 11 bullets, including one to the head, and that he had amphetamines and methamphetamine in his system when he died, the District Attorney's Office said.

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RIP and sorry for your loss.

Honestly, The situation could have been prevented by him just cooperating. At first I thought he was going to run, until he turned back into the truck. Drugs and background have a lot to do with this.

But IMO,

1. 8" knife in hand
2. Disobeying what seems to be several commands by a police officer.
3. Doped up with amphetamines.

I would've shot him too. Maybe not 11 times, but I still would've shot him.

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This topic seems really touchy but I agree with this guy. Sucks people have to die but when the Police say 'don't move or ill shoot you' you fucking don't move.

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Originally posted by 166 Merlot:
Lota cops are pussies, easy to say it easily avoidable- in hindsight. But he got buck blasted in the back... Cop looked hella scarred...

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Originally posted by MauriSSio:

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Originally posted by 166 Merlot:
Lota cops are pussies, easy to say it easily avoidable- in hindsight. But he got buck blasted in the back... Cop looked hella scarred...

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how are cops the pussies when they're the ones who hardly ever run away?!?!? felons are the ones that see the cops and run, not the other way around.

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