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Author
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Topic: Trick flow top end or s trim
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
 
 
Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread. I must be slipping. As to the OP's question of whether to go boosted or H/C/I. Always go forced induction first. Why? The reasons a-plenty.
1) It WILL make as much power as a top end kit and do so much more smoothly and safely.
2) Assuming you have the correct head unit it WILL be emissions legal
3) If done right it WILL be bullet proof and provide years of motoring bliss.
4) It's a freaking supercharger. it wins at the local turd burger hangout spot and hood pop.
These statements assume the combination will be used mainly on the street and must pass emissions.
As to the rest of the posts. I love reading how GT40 heads are "junk" and that AFR/TFS/Dart/ etc are the only way to go. Let me put this to the reader. I have tested NUMEROUS HCI packages on my own car (it was a test mule after all)on the dyno as well as at the track. My lowly gt40 setup makes within 10% of the power of some of the best numbers on the dyno and runs right on their heels at the track. And I'm running stock valves.... and stock block/rotating assembly.
Here's the problem. Nearly every build I have seen never utilizes the HCI to it's FULL potential. What I mean by this is as follows (this is relevant to the op's question so bare with me).
Why would one buy a high flow set of heads, intake and cam to match and install them on a stock block and call that a performance engine? To me that seems like a waste of time. Will it make better numbers than stock? of course it will but if one were so inclined to make this decision why wouldnt he/she maximize the combination. The answer is simple. Get the right bottom end to compliment your top end. OP, this is a real delima for you. If you were to go HCI only I would strongly suggest getting a fresh block, run at least 10.0:1 compression and go with whatever ad looks the prettiest for your heads and intake. For the cam stick with a custom grind or a F/1.7 combination (TFS stage 1/1.7 freaking rips on that combo as well) I know this combination will easily go mid 11's. hell my lowly gt40 combo ran 11.90's on slicks with all emissions hooked up through cats.
I think you can see where I am going with this. Just get the supercharger. Set it up with a nice, safe tune and go light the tires up. Run whatever heads you happen to walk across for a 20-30 hp increase and call it a day.
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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hilltim54
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Member # 10655
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:
Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread. I must be slipping. As to the OP's question of whether to go boosted or H/C/I. Always go forced induction first. Why? The reasons a-plenty.
1) It WILL make as much power as a top end kit and do so much more smoothly and safely.
2) Assuming you have the correct head unit it WILL be emissions legal
3) If done right it WILL be bullet proof and provide years of motoring bliss.
4) It's a freaking supercharger. it wins at the local turd burger hangout spot and hood pop.
These statements assume the combination will be used mainly on the street and must pass emissions.
As to the rest of the posts. I love reading how GT40 heads are "junk" and that AFR/TFS/Dart/ etc are the only way to go. Let me put this to the reader. I have tested NUMEROUS HCI packages on my own car (it was a test mule after all)on the dyno as well as at the track. My lowly gt40 setup makes within 10% of the power of some of the best numbers on the dyno and runs right on their heels at the track. And I'm running stock valves.... and stock block/rotating assembly.
Here's the problem. Nearly every build I have seen never utilizes the HCI to it's FULL potential. What I mean by this is as follows (this is relevant to the op's question so bare with me).
Why would one buy a high flow set of heads, intake and cam to match and install them on a stock block and call that a performance engine? To me that seems like a waste of time. Will it make better numbers than stock? of course it will but if one were so inclined to make this decision why wouldnt he/she maximize the combination. The answer is simple. Get the right bottom end to compliment your top end. OP, this is a real delima for you. If you were to go HCI only I would strongly suggest getting a fresh block, run at least 10.0:1 compression and go with whatever ad looks the prettiest for your heads and intake. For the cam stick with a custom grind or a F/1.7 combination (TFS stage 1/1.7 freaking rips on that combo as well) I know this combination will easily go mid 11's. hell my lowly gt40 combo ran 11.90's on slicks with all emissions hooked up through cats.
I think you can see where I am going with this. Just get the supercharger. Set it up with a nice, safe tune and go light the tires up. Run whatever heads you happen to walk across for a 20-30 hp increase and call it a day.
Makea me more confident about gt40s! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Now with that being said, would it be a good idea to (just for.the time being) pick up a set of gt40s, explorer intake a tb until I get a better job and what not??
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Just bcuz you lived a long life dont mean it cant come to a short end old ass nigga.
Thugnificent
Posts: 1971 | From: Oregon | Registered: Feb 2011
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
Were I to say yes I would so so with some reservation. No need to do the same work twice. Your best bet is to save your cash and get a NEW set of aftermarket heads, intake and 1.7's for the stock cam. Frankly, unless you maximize the entire top end you will be doing yourself a disservice by only buying heads. That said, FI combinations will overcome intake restrictions but at the cost of boost. Remember, boost is a measurement of RESTRICTION and consequently higher intake temps which play a factor in detonation.
Let me reset...
Choose a goal for this combination. Say, 12.50 in the 1/4 or 330 hp at the wheels. Whichever numbers fit your bill (both literally and figurativly). P heads and Explorer intake with 1.7's will mimic a 93 Cobra setup. Just make sure to have the heads and intake gasket matched. Pick up some new lifters and pushrods for added peace of mind. 30# injectors with a 4:1 fmu and a 255 intank will round out an adequate street fuel system... Tune it right, not for power but for reliability....
The list goes on but I think you get the picture. The 302 can be a great platform but do not forget that you have to live with the consequences of the compromises you make to gain power.
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
GT40 heads have there place. I never called them junk.
Anytime you are deciding whether to run naturally aspirated or a boosted combo, pick the boosted combo.
Either way you are gonna have way fun with anything over that stock headed AOD slug.
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
I had this same decision to make less than a month ago. I decided to do h/c/i first then boost it later.
Many factors played into my decision. I chose h/c/i first for all of these reasons... Once h/c/i is installed you can just add a supercharger without taking a bunch of stuff off, but if you add a charger first then you will likely have more things to remove to install the h/c/i. There's nothing like the sound of any car with a nice sounding cam in it imo. h/c/i and a basic supercharger setup will make about the same numbers(depending on setup of course), but the supercharger charger will likely cost more(again depending on setup and if buying new or used). Superchargers create a lean condition much easier than h/c/i which could cause you to blow your motor up if you don't tune it properly. When installing the h/c/i you can check the condition of many parts internally. When installing a supercharger lots of people don't check anything they just slap it on and go.
I'm sure there's many more things to consider, but this is all I could think about that influenced my decision.
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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onesicklx
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Member # 285
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
It will be fine on a stock block. Ran boosted for years 302 then 331 same block. It is still good.
how much rwhp did your 331 with a blower make? also what track times did you run?
i ask because a 302 heads/cam/intake/blower should be plenty to blow up a stock block. why waste money on a stock block 331 when the braking point of a stock block is around 500-550rwhp...does my logic make sense? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 1955 | From: san jose, CA | Registered: Jun 2001
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by onesicklx:
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
It will be fine on a stock block. Ran boosted for years 302 then 331 same block. It is still good.
how much rwhp did your 331 with a blower make? also what track times did you run?
i ask because a 302 heads/cam/intake/blower should be plenty to blow up a stock block. why waste money on a stock block 331 when the braking point of a stock block is around 500-550rwhp...does my logic make sense?
Mike knows what he is doin and his shit ran hard, smog legal too.
I doubt he EVER rattled it, even once.
Dan
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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hilltim54
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Member # 10655
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
GT40 heads have there place. I never called them junk.
Anytime you are deciding whether to run naturally aspirated or a boosted combo, pick the boosted combo.
Either way you are gonna have way fun with anything over that stock headed AOD slug.
AOD slug? Lol thanks Dan..
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Just bcuz you lived a long life dont mean it cant come to a short end old ass nigga.
Thugnificent
Posts: 1971 | From: Oregon | Registered: Feb 2011
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Glenn671
New Member
Member # 964
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posted
it's funny how everyone is saying do it once and do it right, yet everyone who is saying it changed their combo's a millions times. Heck I did it a million times as well. Even the guy asking the question is probably going to change his combo a million times, even if he is syaing I just want a pavement pounder. I think the way to go about it is, whatever you can you can afford at the moment, you are going to to break parts here and there, you going to want to change something all the time, welcome to the world of aftermarket parts. You will never ever be satisfied!!!
Posts: 9 | From: Oahu, Hawaii | Registered: Mar 2002
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