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Author
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Topic: 347 Stroker for an 87 5.0
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
 
 
The 347 shortblock featured in the first article is ~$3200.
The top end is where the expense comes in.
The VicJr heads were upgraded with TI valves, Comp 917 springs, 10 degree locks, decked, & had a valvejob after porting. Cost without porting was $1800 including the price of the heads.
There's really no way around it....if you want to run 10's on motor the heads will set you back $2000-2500 depending on brand/options. That's definately NOT in most peoples budget.
Next on the list was intake porting....again, not on most's budget.
The sherman modified lifters are 3-times the cost of new stock lifters.... Comp ProMagnum rockers are $50-75 over 'other' brands....but I have my reasons for running them.
The camshaft is one of my own custom designs... I sell all my hydro-roller Ford Customs for $325 shipped.
With any car/motor, you have to pay to play. It costs money to go fast.
When you have a 350+RWHP motor you're going to have to upgrade other things on the car like clutch, transmission, fuel components, TB, Mass-air, exhaust system, etc, etc. It adds up FAST.
I get a lot of customers asking for high 10's/low 11's from a $3000 longblock build. That simply isn't going to happen.
What is possible is mid/low 11's from a $6K-$7K longblock build. But again, that does not include any exhaust, fuel, intake manifold, or drivetrain components.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Apexmotorsports
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Member # 5307
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
With any car/motor, you have to pay to play. It costs money to go fast.
When you have a 350+RWHP motor you're going to have to upgrade other things on the car like clutch, transmission, fuel components, TB, Mass-air, exhaust system, etc, etc. It adds up FAST.
Yup this is 100% true.. how fast you want to go is limited primarily by "1" thing.. how much money you have and how much you want to spend. When people are thinking of engine upgrades they often neglect the other important parts such as transmission, fuel system, cluth, etc...
Posts: 957 | Registered: Feb 2005
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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Thats very true I hear that from my dad all the he always tells me if i upgrade one thing i have to do the corresponding part. For example when I got my new energy motormounts he told me i might as well get the matching tranny mount. But yea it all adds up thats why I really appreciate you guys being honest and letting me know that it will not be a cheap buildup when iam ready to do this.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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mustanggt5091
All I need is.....
Member # 444
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posted
ever thought of going to a 351, you get the cubes and a stronger block off the bat
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88 GT 357w (SOLD):(
06 Limited Edition R6 !!!!!
Posts: 2353 | From: Fairfield / Santa Rosa , Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
Ive thought about it and actually wanted it for a while, I started thinking about the 347 when my friend passed smog w/a 347 and thought that might work out better.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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Apexmotorsports
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Member # 5307
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Ive thought about it and actually wanted it for a while, I started thinking about the 347 when my friend passed smog w/a 347 and thought that might work out better.
Just remember this...
Coast High Performance has the ONLY C.A.R.B. legal 347 stroker around. It is only 347 Stoker which is CARB legal in CA.
[ December 12, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Apexmotorsports ]
Posts: 957 | Registered: Feb 2005
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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Thats cool cuz its getting harder and harder to find a smog hook-up. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Although....no smog shop is going to know you have a 347 unless you tell them.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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Yea i guess thats why he passed smog but i know a 351 probably wont pass.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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t top freak
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Member # 6269
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posted
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor
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1994 cobra - sold!
1986 t top gt - parted out and sold!
on the hunt for another
Posts: 1023 | From: sacramento | Registered: Dec 2005
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CDT
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Member # 5004
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:
quote:
Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Ive thought about it and actually wanted it for a while, I started thinking about the 347 when my friend passed smog w/a 347 and thought that might work out better.
Just remember this...
Coast High Performance has the ONLY C.A.R.B. legal 347 stroker around. It is only 347 Stoker which is CARB legal in CA.
not like that matters for anything.. even if you put a 351w in smog shops are not going to know or care. Smog is the best reason to go to the biggest displacement you can, because it doesnt matter for smog.. Getting a CARB cert for an engine is just a marketing ploy.
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Custom Dyno Tuning
510.331.0608
Home of Flat Fee Tuning For All Cars, Trucks and SUV's, EFI & Carb, SCT, AFR, Dynatech, STS Turbos, N2O Refills
Posts: 1053 | From: Hayward | Registered: Nov 2004
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
quote:
not like that matters for anything.. even if you put a 351w in smog shops are not going to know or care. Smog is the best reason to go to the biggest displacement you can, because it doesnt matter for smog.. Getting a CARB cert for an engine is just a marketing ploy.
You are wrong.
The CARB cert is important. We started that process in 1995, and from a marketing standpoint it was way too expensive to ever justify the cost. We did it because it mattered. There are large companies that will not sell or run the strokers without the cert. If one guy gets caught being illegal, not much happens. If some companies get caught selling strokers that will pass smog, but aren't legal, (like 93pony just said) the fines can be huge.
As a point in fact however, you'd be hard pressed to flunk smog if your cats are there, and hot.
As to the bold part, being cynical is okay, but it's better if you know what you're talking about.
If you are just spouting opinion, being quiet is often a better path to take.
[ December 13, 2005, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Mark O'Neal ]
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor
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This is the first question anyone building a car should ask themselves.
Driveability should be figured in too, as a 347 is more pleasant to drive than a 302. That wide torque band is hard to argue with.
If you move to LA, call me, I'll hire you.
[ December 13, 2005, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Mark O'Neal ]
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
quote:
Yep, CHP makes some good stuff. I just wouldn't recomend their budget shortblocks.
Whenever a man prays too loud in church, go home and lock the smokehouse door.
We'll go "tit for tat" Shaun.
While you wouldn't recommend our budget shortblock, or our CNC Beam rods, or much else, I'll return the favor.
I think your engine work borders on average. Not good for a "custom" engine builder. I've avoided, out of deferance to you, pointing out your enginebuilding shortcomings, but you are wearing on my patience.
You really should take a deep breath while you're in the outhouse, you make the same stink as everyone else.
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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88DroptopGT
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Member # 2535
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posted
Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Sheesh.
Posts: 3978 | From: 707 | Registered: Mar 2003
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now.
Sheesh.
LOL thats how you find out about the good stuff.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
quote:
I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.
You should, especially if it's a street/street and strip car.
Again, that broad torque curve make the car a lot nicer to drive.
But as was posted, let your budget dictate your build, don't let your build dictate your budget. Engine builders that sell you stuff that you flat out do not need to accomplish your goals should be studiously avoided.
I'm always for knowing what you want to do and to it without spending any more than required.
[ December 13, 2005, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Mark O'Neal ]
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
quote:
Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now. [Confused]
Sheesh.
They don't transfer. They are caused by loose lips. And I'm not going to sit back and allow my company's name to be dragged though the mud. We can cause ourselves enough trouble without a half baked engine builder using our name to make himself look better than he is.
Especially since he is ordinarily incorrect, and, seemingly, cannot differentiate between fact and his opinion.
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:
quote:
I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.
You should, especially if it's a street/street and strip car.
Again, that broad torque curve make the car a lot nicer to drive.
But as was posted, let your budget dictate your build, don't let your build dictate your budget. Engine builders that sell you stuff that you flat out do not need to accomplish your goals should be studiously avoided.
I always for knowiong what you want to do and to it without spending any more than required.
Yea thats what i need to do but like everybody else my plans are waaaay ahead of my budget.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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t top freak
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Member # 6269
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor
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This is the first question anyone building a car should ask themselves.
Driveability should be figured in too, as a 347 is more pleasant to drive than a 302. That wide torque band is hard to argue with.
If you move to LA, call me, I'll hire you.
If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
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1994 cobra - sold!
1986 t top gt - parted out and sold!
on the hunt for another
Posts: 1023 | From: sacramento | Registered: Dec 2005
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by t top freak:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor
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This is the first question anyone building a car should ask themselves.
Driveability should be figured in too, as a 347 is more pleasant to drive than a 302. That wide torque band is hard to argue with.
If you move to LA, call me, I'll hire you.
If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply
and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now
Yea i have always wantd a supercharged car i was considering a turbo but decided not to. So some time in the future after my motor is built i would like to start saving for a supercharger.
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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Mark O'Neal
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Member # 6179
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posted
quote:
If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply
and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now
I never liked adders....until I did a 347 with a Novi 2000.
I like the blower, turbos make more sense, but teachng old dogs new tricks takes a while.....
Posts: 14 | From: Torrance, Ca. | Registered: Nov 2005
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
You know Mark....You have come on here on several occuasions making personal attacks against me and our shop. I have not once resorted to that level of internet bashing. We both know the same people....I hear LOTS about you....I'm sure you hear about me. Yet I keep it all off the net.
I suppose coming from a 'master' engine builder like yourself my engines may seem 'average', but the truth is I have built some of the more imprssive combos in the area given what they are. Do some digging & back up those bold statements before you go 'running your mouth'. You have no clue what I've done.
Do you know the type of motors I build? Do you know the specifics of the combinations? Do I go around telling everybody that CHP can't build shit? No, no, & no.
My OPINIONS are stated in my posts....based on my experience with the products we've seen.
I'm sorry to disapoint you Mark, but IMO CHP is NOT the 'End all, Be all' of ford performance. IMO some of your products have shortcomings compared to your competitors. When I've run across these, I've freely given Shaun & Eric as much Info as possible & let them make the decissions on what to do with that information.
Case in point:
Lack of valve notches in the modular piston line up. With the new lines of billet camshaft profiles it's become neccessary to notch every single probe piston we install in our customers 2V motors when using billet camshafts. Even the OTS Comp grinds do not fit when used with larger valves. I've spoken with Shaun about this.
In fact, the last time I spoke with him he was inquiring about the 05 3-valve pistons. They come with an exhaust notch from the factory.....Shaun was going to employ this notch in the new 3-valve design..... & asked if I'd send down a stock 3-valve piston so he could get all the #s' worked out. Well, FWIW we've done the math & the valve notch is NOT needed. The current line of Probe pistons will work just fine with the 3-valves.
You post on here as if I'm out to do harm to CHP's reputation.....you could not be farther from the truth.
I've consistantly done all I can to help Probe improve the current line of products that we use in our shop. We demand the best we can get at affordable prices.....I'm sorry you can't take constructive critisizm.
I post OPINIONS on public message boards....just like your 'opinions' on my 'average' engine builds. Deal with it!
FWIW,
Check out the sites 'fastest' list in the drag racing forum. As you will see the last 'average' 347 I built ran 10.98 @125.7mph on motor....in a 3200lb car...& just went on a 100mile cruise through the twistys...it's 100% street car, not a race car. It's the 3rd fastest all-motor car on the list....not far behind the fastest which is also a 347, but it's in a lighter car & runs a Carburator setup w/a solid roller. But hey....we're a modular shop. The 5.0 stuff is just for fun.
We've also built the fastest modular on this site. Only ran 10.4 in a 99 Cobra convertable with an S-trim.
But hey....that's just 'average'.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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onesicklx
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Member # 285
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posted
opps
[ December 13, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: onesicklx ]
Posts: 1955 | From: san jose, CA | Registered: Jun 2001
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