quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Really 3 to 4k damn i better start penny pinchin.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Really 3 to 4k damn i better start penny pinchin.

---

well you got to figure a good kit will cost you about $1200 to $1500.....and then you'll have to get the machine work done on the engine which is another cost...plus you'll end replacing ALL gaskets and other misc things....

---

Yea that adds up gaskets can get expensive, The valve cover i bought from you cracked so i had too get another set of gaskets and put the stock ones back on so i ended up buying another set.

[ December 11, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: PWR HNGRY 302 ]
 

---

Posted by Eagle347 (Member # 6205) on :
 
I bought a 347 stroker short block online for $2500.00. It has a forged eagle crank, eagle forged H-beam rods, and forged SRP pistons. You cant beat that price for those good of parts, he has the best prices I could find, and he ships for free. I was going to build a stroker out of my stock block, but it was way cheaper to buy one already built. That stroker kit is $1900.00 alone. Let me know if you want more info.
 

---

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
You will not find better prices then from Brian @ ADPerformance.

The 347's we build generally will set you back $3000-$3500 depending on options (ARP hardware, girdles, optional machinework, etc).....but we automatically upgrade certain parts like rods, rod bolts, wrist pins, locks, & rings.

IMO, if you're going to spend the $$$.....get the best stuff you can & get it done right the first time.

One of our customers bought a crate 347 longblock from a well known company (I won't name names). He had multiple issues & finally tore down the motor only to find a 4.030" bore block w/ 4.00" pistons! Mistakes happen....
 

---

Posted by CDT (Member # 5004) on :
 
must have been one of those 100 engines a month places.
 

---

Posted by Eagle347 (Member # 6205) on :
 
My builder throws in free girdles, and uses ARP harware. If you guys have better prices, I could not find you on the web. One big reason I bought mine from where I did was the free shipping. There is not a decent builder around me, thats why I bought out of state. But if you can find a good deal locally I would go for it, but good luck! Link
 

---

Posted by jordan_0806 (Member # 5888) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
You will not find better prices then from Brian @ ADPerformance.

The 347's we build generally will set you back $3000-$3500 depending on options (ARP hardware, girdles, optional machinework, etc).....but we automatically upgrade certain parts like rods, rod bolts, wrist pins, locks, & rings.

IMO, if you're going to spend the $$$.....get the best stuff you can & get it done right the first time.

One of our customers bought a crate 347 longblock from a well known company (I won't name names). He had multiple issues & finally tore down the motor only to find a 4.030" bore block w/ 4.00" pistons! Mistakes happen....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
You will not find better prices then from Brian @ ADPerformance.

The 347's we build generally will set you back $3000-$3500 depending on options (ARP hardware, girdles, optional machinework, etc).....but we automatically upgrade certain parts like rods, rod bolts, wrist pins, locks, & rings.

IMO, if you're going to spend the $$$.....get the best stuff you can & get it done right the first time.

One of our customers bought a crate 347 longblock from a well known company (I won't name names). He had multiple issues & finally tore down the motor only to find a 4.030" bore block w/ 4.00" pistons! Mistakes happen....

---

to be honest folks...spend the extra $1k for shaun's work...it'll be stronger and more reliable....

---

I don't know about stronger if it's going into a production 5.0L roller block. The stock Cast crankshaft can handle more then the block can take..
When it comes to the guys on a budget it really comes down to parts selection & of course quality machinework/build. Typically these guys aren't willing to spend the $$$ on 'knife edging', chamfering, polishing, etc. The labor for all that adds up fast.

I'm not a huge fan of Eagle crankshafts. They are strong, no doubt about that, they are cheap & for the money are hard to beat...but they don't have radiused counterweights. For about the same price you can get a Scat crankshaft that'll handle the same power & it is cast/forged with radiused counterweights.....which is worth a little bit of power....so I tend to discourage our customers from buying Eagle Cranks.

Eagle SIR rods & Probe CNC rods I don't like either. They are not heavy & can handle more power then the stock block can.....I just don't like the design. Where the strength is needed most there's a sharp cut for the rod bolt. I prefer cap-screw I beams....but most of our customers want H.
With the 347 there's also rod length to consider. 5.400" or 5.315". The difference comes into play with the piston. Specifically where the pin is located. With a 5.4" rod the pin & oil rings intersect which can cause oil to be scrapped up into the combustion chamber. With the 5.315 rods the pin is out of the oil ring (like a 331). Obviously there's rod weight to consider as well. A shorter rod will be lighter, however a shorter rod will tyically mean a heavier piston.
There's a bunch of other parts considerations as well....but those are just a few specific to the 347. This is where most of the extra cost comes into play.

FWIW, I don't like main stud girdles.....especially aluminum ones. Aluminum expands at a much faster rate than Iron....therefore an aluminum girdle will expand at a faster rate then the iron maincaps. If the girdle is allowed to expand & flex the mains, bearing clearance is only .0015-.002"....so clearances go to shit FAST. Typically you'll see aluminum girdles that 'float' on the main caps with washers... This allows the aluminum to expand without affecting the maincaps.....but then what is the benefit of a girdle?
Then there's the question of is a girdle really worth it. Even a steel girdle is not going to keep the block from cracking in half from too much power. Sure, it may keep the main caps from walking at high RPM, but it can not keep it from cracking from too much power. Typically an overpowered 5.0 will fail in the main webbing....under the lifter galley. The newest girdles are lifter valley girdles. In theory they should work.....but IMO if you're planning on pushing more then 500RWHP, it's a smart move to invest in a Dart block. It can be bored .200 over & can handle more power then you'll ever make......basically it's the last block you'll ever buy.
 

---

Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 
wow 93 pony,
I just learned so much from your last post is not even funny.
i'll be contacting your guys when i'm ready to get a 331.
 

---

Posted by Apexmotorsports (Member # 5307) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Really 3 to 4k damn i better start penny pinchin.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Really 3 to 4k damn i better start penny pinchin.

---

You don't really have to break the bank to get a nice engine.... yes it is nice to have a Dart block and all the best of everything BUT the reality is most people do not need OR CAN AFFORD IT. We sell engines ranging from stock replacements to full bore race engines. If you want a nice engine without breaking the bank, consider Coast High Performance... we sell their 347 Stroker short blocks from $2000-$3500 depending on what options you want. In fact, CHP(Coast) makes THE ONLY C.A.R.B. legal 347 stroker. If you have time come by the shop and we will show you 2-3 cars which we are installing a 347 into.

And another thing which Apex offers, which no other shop offers is 0% Financing for the engine and installtion for up to 1 year.

If you are interested or would like to learn more about the Coast Engine OR our 0% 1 Year financing option please feel free to contact Chris or Mario at 408/588-0075

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
Yep, CHP makes some good stuff. I just wouldn't recomend their budget shortblocks.

Here's a 347 I recently built using CHP stuff. The article lists the upgrades & describes the full build...including a few things that can be done during assembly to make a little more power.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/10/BuildersNotebook/index.php

The 91GT the motor went into has run 10.98 @125.7mph N/A @3200lbs.

Here's another 347 buildup that's gone 10.86 @127mph N/A in a little lighter foxbody with a Carburator & solid roller profile. Built by Rob's Auto Machine

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/02/RobsMachine/index.php

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302: Yea i would like to take a look, I actually called last week about getting my subframes put on left a message but i never got a call back. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302: Yea i would like to take a look, I actually called last week about getting my subframes put on left a message but i never got a call back.

---

What day did you call? I know we have pretty pretty slammed with work..... Come on by anytime and we can show you some very nice jobs we are doing at this time.

BTW, everyone wants TONS of power, everyone says you should get the best of everything for an engine.... Well most people who say that fail to look at people's actual budgets. I would love to sell everyone a $10K engine BUT most people cannot afford it NOR do they need it. [/QB]

---

LOL thats very true. It was last Monday. You have a pm.
 

---

Posted by Apexmotorsports (Member # 5307) on :
 
PWR HNGRY 302,

It really blows me away that everyone says people should get the best engine possible without considering people's budgets. Many people make it sound like there is ONLY "1" option.. "Either all the way or no way".. which is wrong. So what should people do if they cannot get the "BEST" engine money can buy?

Let's be honest, the majority of users on this board is under 30 years old and cannot afford a $15K+ engine job. Crate engines from manufacturers like CHP are pretty good regardless of what people say. If they where really that bad they would be out of business REAL fast. And yes they do make mistakes just like all shops do.. BUT since they produce 100+ engines per month there will be more mistakes just because they produce more units. The % of mistakes by CHP is probably the same if not less than many machine shops.

[ December 12, 2005, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Apexmotorsports ]
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
Thanks i appreciate that,but i know its just talk everybody wants the best but most people can't afford it. But I would like to get the best stuff right away I just cant afford so what I try to do now after making many mistakes is to make an informed decision and thanks to cafords i can.
 

---

Posted by Apexmotorsports (Member # 5307) on :
 
CAfords is a great forum and resource for users. It allows everyone a nice forum to discuss their questions and problems. It also allows people to share their experiences


 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
Its helped me out a lot. I found a lot of cool people on here and many parts that ive got good deals on.
 

---

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
The 347 shortblock featured in the first article is ~$3200.
The top end is where the expense comes in.
The VicJr heads were upgraded with TI valves, Comp 917 springs, 10 degree locks, decked, & had a valvejob after porting. Cost without porting was $1800 including the price of the heads.
There's really no way around it....if you want to run 10's on motor the heads will set you back $2000-2500 depending on brand/options. That's definately NOT in most peoples budget.
Next on the list was intake porting....again, not on most's budget.
The sherman modified lifters are 3-times the cost of new stock lifters.... Comp ProMagnum rockers are $50-75 over 'other' brands....but I have my reasons for running them.
The camshaft is one of my own custom designs... I sell all my hydro-roller Ford Customs for $325 shipped.

With any car/motor, you have to pay to play. It costs money to go fast.
When you have a 350+RWHP motor you're going to have to upgrade other things on the car like clutch, transmission, fuel components, TB, Mass-air, exhaust system, etc, etc. It adds up FAST.

I get a lot of customers asking for high 10's/low 11's from a $3000 longblock build. That simply isn't going to happen.
What is possible is mid/low 11's from a $6K-$7K longblock build. But again, that does not include any exhaust, fuel, intake manifold, or drivetrain components.
 

---

Posted by Apexmotorsports (Member # 5307) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
With any car/motor, you have to pay to play. It costs money to go fast.
When you have a 350+RWHP motor you're going to have to upgrade other things on the car like clutch, transmission, fuel components, TB, Mass-air, exhaust system, etc, etc. It adds up FAST.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Ive thought about it and actually wanted it for a while, I started thinking about the 347 when my friend passed smog w/a 347 and thought that might work out better.

---

Just remember this...

Coast High Performance has the ONLY C.A.R.B. legal 347 stroker around. It is only 347 Stoker which is CARB legal in CA.

[ December 12, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Apexmotorsports ]
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
Thats cool cuz its getting harder and harder to find a smog hook-up.
 

---

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Although....no smog shop is going to know you have a 347 unless you tell them.
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
Yea i guess thats why he passed smog but i know a 351 probably wont pass.
 

---

Posted by t top freak (Member # 6269) on :
 
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor
 

---

Posted by CDT (Member # 5004) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
Ive thought about it and actually wanted it for a while, I started thinking about the 347 when my friend passed smog w/a 347 and thought that might work out better.

---

Just remember this...

Coast High Performance has the ONLY C.A.R.B. legal 347 stroker around. It is only 347 Stoker which is CARB legal in CA.

---

quote:

---

not like that matters for anything.. even if you put a 351w in smog shops are not going to know or care. Smog is the best reason to go to the biggest displacement you can, because it doesnt matter for smog.. Getting a CARB cert for an engine is just a marketing ploy.

---

quote:

---

Yep, CHP makes some good stuff. I just wouldn't recomend their budget shortblocks.

---

Whenever a man prays too loud in church, go home and lock the smokehouse door.

We'll go "tit for tat" Shaun.

While you wouldn't recommend our budget shortblock, or our CNC Beam rods, or much else, I'll return the favor.

I think your engine work borders on average. Not good for a "custom" engine builder. I've avoided, out of deferance to you, pointing out your enginebuilding shortcomings, but you are wearing on my patience.

You really should take a deep breath while you're in the outhouse, you make the same stink as everyone else.
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.
 

---

Posted by 88DroptopGT (Member # 2535) on :
 
Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now.

Sheesh.
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now.

Sheesh.

---

quote:

---

I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.

---

quote:

---

Damn I didn't know these engine building arguments transfer over different forums now. [Confused]

Sheesh.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:

quote:

---

I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.

---

You should, especially if it's a street/street and strip car.

Again, that broad torque curve make the car a lot nicer to drive.

But as was posted, let your budget dictate your build, don't let your build dictate your budget. Engine builders that sell you stuff that you flat out do not need to accomplish your goals should be studiously avoided.

I always for knowiong what you want to do and to it without spending any more than required.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor

--------------------

This is the first question anyone building a car should ask themselves.

Driveability should be figured in too, as a 347 is more pleasant to drive than a 302. That wide torque band is hard to argue with.

If you move to LA, call me, I'll hire you.

---

If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply

and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by t top freak:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:
what are your performance goals for the car? that should be the first question before what size engine you need and all that. you might be able to hit the power you want with out a stroked motor

--------------------

This is the first question anyone building a car should ask themselves.

Driveability should be figured in too, as a 347 is more pleasant to drive than a 302. That wide torque band is hard to argue with.

If you move to LA, call me, I'll hire you.

---

If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply

and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now

---

quote:

---

If you guys move to sacramento, call me and i will come apply

and i agree about the stroker being fun to drive, however so are blown cars and turbo cars. I chose the turbo route for my car, i just need to finish it up now

---

I never liked adders....until I did a 347 with a Novi 2000.

I like the blower, turbos make more sense, but teachng old dogs new tricks takes a while.....
 

---

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
You know Mark....You have come on here on several occuasions making personal attacks against me and our shop. I have not once resorted to that level of internet bashing. We both know the same people....I hear LOTS about you....I'm sure you hear about me. Yet I keep it all off the net.

I suppose coming from a 'master' engine builder like yourself my engines may seem 'average', but the truth is I have built some of the more imprssive combos in the area given what they are. Do some digging & back up those bold statements before you go 'running your mouth'. You have no clue what I've done.

Do you know the type of motors I build? Do you know the specifics of the combinations? Do I go around telling everybody that CHP can't build shit? No, no, & no.

My OPINIONS are stated in my posts....based on my experience with the products we've seen.

I'm sorry to disapoint you Mark, but IMO CHP is NOT the 'End all, Be all' of ford performance. IMO some of your products have shortcomings compared to your competitors. When I've run across these, I've freely given Shaun & Eric as much Info as possible & let them make the decissions on what to do with that information.
Case in point:
Lack of valve notches in the modular piston line up. With the new lines of billet camshaft profiles it's become neccessary to notch every single probe piston we install in our customers 2V motors when using billet camshafts. Even the OTS Comp grinds do not fit when used with larger valves. I've spoken with Shaun about this.
In fact, the last time I spoke with him he was inquiring about the 05 3-valve pistons. They come with an exhaust notch from the factory.....Shaun was going to employ this notch in the new 3-valve design..... & asked if I'd send down a stock 3-valve piston so he could get all the #s' worked out. Well, FWIW we've done the math & the valve notch is NOT needed. The current line of Probe pistons will work just fine with the 3-valves.

You post on here as if I'm out to do harm to CHP's reputation.....you could not be farther from the truth.

I've consistantly done all I can to help Probe improve the current line of products that we use in our shop. We demand the best we can get at affordable prices.....I'm sorry you can't take constructive critisizm.

I post OPINIONS on public message boards....just like your 'opinions' on my 'average' engine builds. Deal with it!

FWIW,
Check out the sites 'fastest' list in the drag racing forum. As you will see the last 'average' 347 I built ran 10.98 @125.7mph on motor....in a 3200lb car...& just went on a 100mile cruise through the twistys...it's 100% street car, not a race car. It's the 3rd fastest all-motor car on the list....not far behind the fastest which is also a 347, but it's in a lighter car & runs a Carburator setup w/a solid roller. But hey....we're a modular shop. The 5.0 stuff is just for fun.

We've also built the fastest modular on this site. Only ran 10.4 in a 99 Cobra convertable with an S-trim.
But hey....that's just 'average'.

 

---

Posted by onesicklx (Member # 285) on :
 
opps

[ December 13, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: onesicklx ]
 

---

Posted by CDT (Member # 5004) on :
 
WOW!!! Your slamming a person that buys your products this bad???

Shawn's results have spoke for him, no arguments there. I can also say I have never had a problem with their engines and I have beat up a few of them pretty often..
 

---

Posted by a50sn95 (Member # 527) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark O'Neal:

quote:

---

I want to run low 11's but because i have a high miliage motor and a was planning on rebuilding so i thought why not go bigger.

---

You should, especially if it's a street/street and strip car.

Again, that broad torque curve make the car a lot nicer to drive.

But as was posted, let your budget dictate your build, don't let your build dictate your budget. Engine builders that sell you stuff that you flat out do not need to accomplish your goals should be studiously avoided.

I always for knowiong what you want to do and to it without spending any more than required.

---

Yea thats what i need to do but like everybody else my plans are waaaay ahead of my budget.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by a50sn95:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:

* Forged steel crankshaft
* CHP 4340 forged steel connecting rods
* Probe SRS forged pistons
* Dished and Blower Dish pistons available
* Probe Industries hydraulic roller camshaft

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by a50sn95:
Just food for thought... web page

Notice the 456 hp at 6000 RPM, which is probably as high as you should take a stock block and expect it to live...

---