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Originally posted by SlipNslide281:

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a blower can build boost instantly correct but wont see full boost untill 5k or redline

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Really depends on your tune, and if its a roots blower vs centrifical, I have the stock 03 cobra roots blower and it kicks in at 1900 to 2100 rpms and goes just about straight accross the board, a constant pull. Depends on the Tune. A centrifical blower needs to spool up a bit kinda like a turbo. Both have there pros and cons.

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I was talkin about a centrifugal blower like a ATI/Paxton/Vortec. Sorry if I didnt make that clear, when I talk about blowers I dont count roots( lets not make this a different debate, remember he asked turbo or blower and lets keep it to his ?)i just dont like them. my $.02

As for 9cobra9 ?, I personally would get the ATI because it comes with a intercooler, im sure most on this board will tell you Vortec because of problems with the ATI's in the past. I know a couple of people, some of the fastest on this board have ATI's , and havent had a problem at all. I know your lookin for boost but I still say run NAWZ on the street

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88 GT 357w (SOLD):(
06 Limited Edition R6 !!!!!

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Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm

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sure you can, I get probly 10 to 11 psi around 2000rpm. Thats with a stock 03 cobra blower, 2.8mm pulley, and a tune. So Im sure a Keeny Bell could do better. here is my dyn chart. The lower lines is before the tune and pulley and the seceond upper set of lines is after the tune. yes it tapers off at the end which a Cintrifical probably would not but the low end gets me out of the whole, and the tune keeps it a pretty constant pull.

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Originally posted by *SlipNslide281*:

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Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm

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sure you can, I get probly 10 to 11 psi around 2000rpm. Thats with a stock 03 cobra blower, 2.8mm pulley, and a tune. So Im sure a Keeny Bell could do better. here is my dyn chart. The lower lines is before the tune and pulley and the seceond upper set of lines is after the tune. yes it tapers off at the end which a Cintrifical probably would not but the low end gets me out of the whole, and the tune keeps it a pretty constant pull.

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Thanks, your supporting me in this debate...

LOL...When I said, "Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm", I meant just HIM...Shaun/93Pony has a 331 twin turbo 93 Cobra..I wanted to see if HE can hit 8psi at only 2000rpm with his Cobra....

Your dyno graph is exactly what I'm talking about!...

[ May 17, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Black94 5.0 ]

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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-

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Originally posted by Black94 5.0:

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

That's the only point I'm making...If anyone wants to talk about best track numbers or peak numbers, or power above a certain rpm, or a turbo vs kenne bell vs vortech vs ATI vs whatever go ahead, I'm not debating that....

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I'd be willing to bet that Shauns motor makes more average rwhp from 2000-6000rpms with his Incon kit @ 8psi then it would with a Kenne Bell @ 8psi.



[ May 17, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]

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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG

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Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
Ok, I just want to clear up a few things...

My first and only point was that Eric mentioned that turbos get full boost faster...My point is they don't...

I never said that a Kenne bell is better than a turbo or even a Centrifugal blower...If I was buying a kit, I'd get a Vortech, just because of the streetability of the kit...I don't think that turbo kits for a 5.0 or a 4.6 Mustang are for daily drivers...I'm not saying they can't be, and I'm not saying they're worse, I'm just saying that between smog and melting components under the hood is not the best thing for a daily driver...

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

That's the only point I'm making...If anyone wants to talk about best track numbers or peak numbers, or power above a certain rpm, or a turbo vs kenne bell vs vortech vs ATI vs whatever go ahead, I'm not debating that....

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when i said the turbo will make boost faster than the the supercharger, that is because i was talking about an ati/vortech/paxton type, I doubt the 9cobra9 was even considering a kennebell or an eaton

and yes, 93pony's car would make more power under the curve and on top end with his twin turbo's, because driving the compressor with exhaust gas is much mor efficient than driving the compressor with a belt, so less power lost to turning the compressor wheel

and this whole lag arguement

when u are racing someone, how often are u under 3k rpms anyway

and if street racing on street tires, i woundnt want instant boost at 2k rpm, that would just equal

now if on slicks it would matter, because u are launching higher than 3k anyway

turbo(s)

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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5

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and if street racing on street tires, i woundnt want instant boost at 2k rpm, that would just equal

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I agree but Im not bragging at all just what I have experienced. I ran street tires on my 03 cobra and still hit a 1.9 60foot. while others there with 03 cobras were getting 2.4 60 foots, and above on DR's. So I guess it's how you know your car. I would much have rather driven on DR's but it is possible to keep traction. so I like my instant boost.

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Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
Ok, I just want to clear up a few things...

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
[QUOTE]By FAR the turbo will make more power per lb of boost than ANY SC on the market today.

5LVenom basically has one of my previous setups (stock GT40 iron heads, cobra intake, 331, etc) but with an E303 vs my stock GT cam, an S-trim VS my Incons, & an off-road exhaust vs my high-flow catted setup.

Both setups made 430RWHP by 5K rpm.....my turbo setup made over 500RWTQ before 4KRPM. Average power... When I went to a custom cam & off-road exhaust the setup picked up 5-6mph in the 1/4.....at 9psi max boost.

No, my current setup does NOT make 8psi at 2000rpm.

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1)I never said a blower would make more power than a turbo...

2)5Lvenom has an S-trim notice I said Kenne bell???????...Shaun, don't you have an air-to-air intercooler and does 5Lvenom??..I'm only comparing a Kenne bell simply because it builds boost instantly and I'm talking about "AVERAGE" horse power....Yeah, blowers take horse power to run, but you won't get full boost at 2000rpm either....

3)I'm only trying to make a point that superchargers build boost faster...AC66 you have a great point about full boost at 2000rpm and traction, but it's power across the rpm range that makes you fast and you're only as fast as your traction anyway...

4) Shaun~ Your car is bad ass, I'm not trying to down play that in anyway...

5)Jeff S, I shoulda taken that bet...




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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-

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Originally posted by Black94 5.0:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
[QUOTE]By FAR the turbo will make more power per lb of boost than ANY SC on the market today.

5LVenom basically has one of my previous setups (stock GT40 iron heads, cobra intake, 331, etc) but with an E303 vs my stock GT cam, an S-trim VS my Incons, & an off-road exhaust vs my high-flow catted setup.

Both setups made 430RWHP by 5K rpm.....my turbo setup made over 500RWTQ before 4KRPM. Average power... When I went to a custom cam & off-road exhaust the setup picked up 5-6mph in the 1/4.....at 9psi max boost.

No, my current setup does NOT make 8psi at 2000rpm.

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1)I never said a blower would make more power than a turbo...

2)5Lvenom has an S-trim notice I said Kenne bell???????...Shaun, don't you have an air-to-air intercooler and does 5Lvenom??..I'm only comparing a Kenne bell simply because it builds boost instantly and I'm talking about "AVERAGE" horse power....Yeah, blowers take horse power to run, but you won't get full boost at 2000rpm either....

3)I'm only trying to make a point that superchargers build boost faster...AC66 you have a great point about full boost at 2000rpm and traction, but it's power across the rpm range that makes you fast and you're only as fast as your traction anyway...

4) Shaun~ Your car is bad ass, I'm not trying to down play that in anyway...

5)Jeff S, I shoulda taken that bet...

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Who the fuck cares about 8psi at 2000rpm!?!

You said a turbo would not make more average power from a give rpm to redline then a roots blower. You are WRONG. Boost is only one aspect of what it takes to make power. Heat & timing play BIG roles as well. If you're pumping in 180 degree air into a motor at 8psi how much timing do you think it'll be running on 91 octane? How about the same 8psi at 100 degrees? And what about the power it takes to turn the blower?

A good turbo setup will add 20-25RWHP per lb of boost on a typical mustang 5.0. SC's are in the 18-20RWHP range. Roots are below that.

The intercooler on my car has been proven to add a whopping 20rwhp with 80mph wind on it.....on the dyno.

Superchargers do NOT build boost faster. At least not every supercharger. Turbo's & centrifugal blowers have very similar compressor units...they must spin very high RPM in order to make boost. Turbo's spin 2-3 times as fast as any blower out there. The faster you spin it, the more boost it'll make. Centrifugal blowers spin based on engine RPM, therefore they can NOT make boost as fast as a Turbo that spins off heat & pressure...which can be very high at low RPM/high load conditions. Roots blowers are some of the least efficient power adders available...why even bother IMO. Sure, you get massive torque down low (still NOT what a turbo can do!) & they're RPM limited....and they produce massive heat (which is the main drawback)

& as for turbo lag....ask the local LS1's on nitrous how fast I get full boost from a 45mph punch. It's just a hair slower then their N2O shot.

I've heard all your arguments before...from countless individuals who really don't know shit about turbo's. You want to learn? Browes around on www.turbomustangs.com

One more thing, I've not melted a damn thing from hot underhood temps. Yes, there's more heat then stock, but compared to these 96+ 4.6 S-trim setups I work on....there's no real difference. Place your hand on an S-trim after it's run down the drag strip.

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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning

(916)715-7569

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Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
FasterDammit sent this to me a long time ago.

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Thank you!

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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning

(916)715-7569

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046

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Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

[ May 18, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: NotchBack 90 ]

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Originally posted by NotchBack 90:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046

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Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

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