|
Author
|
Topic: JUSTAGT is now DONE with the "Ghetto Tune"
|
Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
|
posted
 
 
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
gaurentee the results just try it. Some people think they are so good they refuse to learn (93pony) LOL with as fast as my cars run for what they have, and as much as I win do you think I am just lucky? Good luck on getting your miss fixed Drew. I am guessing some type of valve float or spark blow out problem.
I just upgraded to some 1.72 rockers and when I did so upgraded the valve springs. People have been shouting valve float since this all started, but the problem persists as it always has, no change. If you were to go for a ride in the car you would be able to feel and hear that its not the problem.
Whats up with those Autolite plugs you suggested in a thread a while back?
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
Glenn
¯
Member # 520
|
posted
damn, nice numbers drew. wish I was still back there, I would also have Jeff Tune my 95.
--------------------
S-Trim,331,H/C/I
"JohnB groupie train"
My Car
DragGuam
Posts: 2009 | From: Stationed on a Pacific Island, Guam | Registered: Oct 2001
| :
|
|
Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
|
posted
Also on the dyno graph you could see a weird drop in power at about 6000 rpm's and then it comes back up until 6400 where from there it goes strait down the crapper. A/F stays steady when the power drops, so it is something spark related also.
--------------------
AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
|
posted
what distributor do you have in there, have you tried a different one, Im sure you have but just checking
--------------------
FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA:
what distributor do you have in there, have you tried a different one, Im sure you have but just checking
Actually I have tried 4 different distributers...lol
2 MSD and 2 stock (one of the stock ones being brand new)
[ December 13, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Yellow94GT ]
--------------------
AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
gaurentee the results just try it. Some people think they are so good they refuse to learn (93pony) LOL with as fast as my cars run for what they have, and as much as I win do you think I am just lucky? Good luck on getting your miss fixed Drew. I am guessing some type of valve float or spark blow out problem.
This is the same cam Mike Camara ran and it was designed to be run on the centerline it's installed on. Maybe you should tell Brian at HiTech he doesn't know what he's doin ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Bottom line is he's helped design the most powerful NA Fords in northern cali and piece for piece I'll put any of his setups against anyone's across the country. Also funny how all the strongest NA motors around here have cams that aren't advanced... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) You do have a strong runnin car, how bout you try to roll the cam back to straight up and see if you gain power I Doubt you'll try it, but good luck none the less. ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif) Just for curiosity sake what is advancing it gonna do for him, and how is it gonna make more power? I just wanna know the theory behind your recommendations ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
--------------------
1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
I went to the autolite AR racing plugs. I use them in my 69 and in my 91. Underboost I was blowing out the spark on the iridium NGK plugs I had. I actualy think they were to hot of a heat range. Anyhow I always go at least 1 step colder than stock on race days and realy am happy with the autolite race plugs. They have cut back electrodes and different metal in them higher nickle content I believe. I used them in my 69 with NOS and never had a missfire. I was to stupid not to go with them from the beginning on my 91 LOL
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
|
posted
Drew- are you running an MSD ignition or stock setup? Also, what plugs and gap?
As far as the cam goes, I'd leave it alone. It obviously is designed/being used for it's intended purpose, why advance it?
Edit: the Autolite race plugs have a thicker shell and cut-back electrode. That's it. The only bonus they give is stability around the core (boosted/no2 cars tend to crack the ceramic portion of the core). Are you running 3910's?
[ December 13, 2004, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: JohnB ]
--------------------
1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
just a sugestion boy's. Belive it or not I always try different cam timming on motors when I am trying to acomplish something. The only reason it sugested it was if he wanted to bring to RPM ranage down little so he wouldn't rev it so much. The difference is small anyhow few hundred RPM a little HP and more TQ. HP isn't a problem with my 331 traction is I ran 11.1 spinning until after 3rd gear shift. If I ever get the car to hook hard and feel I need a little more out of it up top I won't hesitate to try it out. Drews car runs awsome and I seriously doubt moving his cam either direction would make more than a slight difference anyhow. I have never delst with brian from high tech. I have seen a few FTI cams and for heaver cars he recomends advanced cam timming and lighter it is straight up. This is him not me. Wht do you think that is? I am not nearly as knoledgeable as ED Curtis but if he grinds and recomends this on his cams .... Look I am just throwing some Ideas up that I know work to try and help Drew. Not everything you try works OK and there is not Just one theroy on cams out there Does anybody here have any Dyno results on cam timming changing only? BTW that is not the only advantage to the AR plugs but if a plug gives me two advantages to running it I will do it every time ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ December 13, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
|
posted
You're right, they are suggestions. Again, he needs to get the rev problem corrected before moving on to engine changes that could possibly make his problem worse.
And if your car is spinning through 3rd, get some different tires!
Edit: lemme guess, running the AR plugs give you that warm fuzzy because they say "race" on them? Worth an extra 5hp or something? LOL
[ December 13, 2004, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: JohnB ]
--------------------
1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
Sub frame connectors,rollbar, and MT drag radials are next in line on my car. That should help it hook. I didn't want to try and hook it to hard with out subframe connectors. Beside I have my mud and snows on it now(drive to work rain or shine) anyhow off topic here sorry Drew
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
AR plugs give me the warm fuzzy feeling because that IS the only thing I changed to when I was blowing out spark. With that I gained 5 tenths and 9 MPH. back to back times at the track. My car with no missfire gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all the time OK
[ December 13, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
just a sugestion boy's. Belive it or not I always try different cam timming on motors when I am trying to acomplish something. The only reason it sugested it was if he wanted to bring to RPM ranage down little so he wouldn't rev it so much. The difference is small anyhow few hundred RPM a little HP and more TQ. HP isn't a problem with my 331 traction is I ran 11.1 spinning until after 3rd gear shift. If I ever get the car to hook hard and feel I need a little more out of it up top I won't hesitate to try it out. Drews car runs awsome and I seriously doubt moving his cam either direction would make more than a slight difference anyhow. I have never delst with brian from high tech. I have seen a few FTI cams and for heaver cars he recomends advanced cam timming and lighter it is straight up. This is him not me. Wht do you think that is? I am not nearly as knoledgeable as ED Curtis but if he grinds and recomends this on his cams .... Look I am just throwing some Ideas up that I know work to try and help Drew. Not everything you try works OK and there is not Just one theroy on cams out there Does anybody here have any Dyno results on cam timming changing only? BTW that is not the only advantage to the AR plugs but if a plug gives me two advantages to running it I will do it every time
That's cool with the suggestions. Just wondering what your theory is on doing it. You did say you guarantee more HP and TQ by advancing it so I just wondered why. Ed knows his stuff. But if you look around at all the vendors and custom guys you'll quickly see who's good at what. Ed is a valve train genius but I believe others do better cams. Ed says brian's stuff is all wrong. IMO, if results disagree with theory, then find a new theory! Brian's cams always spec out smaller than Ed's yet make the same or more HP and torque. So if Brian's cams are smaller then I'd have to say his valve timing events are more precise of what the motor really wants. I've done a tail of the tape comparisons of several of his setups to the HiTech one's to come to an unbiased conclusion. I see Ed's different centerlines on his cam cards but it sounds to me like the setup just needs to be geared right. Heavy car, more gear, lighter car, less gear. I know for a fact that all the hitech cams being retarded or straight up hasn't resulted in a loss of torque. Dyno graphs don't lie and neither does the track. Drew's setup was made to rev. It isn't easy to make nearly 100 RWHP more than your cubic" displacement without rev's. Drew's RPM potential is from the bigger heads, and victor manifold which is designed to rev. IMO it still made tremendous torque for a setup that's supposed to "give some up" down low.
--------------------
1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yellow94GT:
quote:
Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA:
what distributor do you have in there, have you tried a different one, Im sure you have but just checking
Actually I have tried 4 different distributers...lol
2 MSD and 2 stock (one of the stock ones being brand new)
we i guess its not that ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
tried a new computer
--------------------
FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
|
posted
quote:
AR plugs give me the warm fuzzy feeling because that IS the only thing I changed to when I was blowing out spark. With that I gained 5 tenths and 9 MPH. back to back times at the track. My car with no missfire gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all the time OK
I hear that. Same here. Went to a recessed tip plug (old chrysler plug) and picked up 8 mph.
Drew- what heads and plug combo are you running?
--------------------
1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
Thanks for taking care of my 'light work' Aaron.
To expand a little....
The 2 fastest N/A EFI 347's around have run the EXACT cam Drew has in his motor. Insalled 1 degree retarded as intended.
Boost is a totally different animal. Anybody can slap a Centrifugal band-aid on a shitty N/A setup & make good power.
RPM makes power PERIOD. HP = TQ * (RPM/5252)
Therefore, the higher you spin it, the more HP you will make.....& the LESS TQ you will make. If advancing the camshaft gives more TQ, it would decrease HP up top. This would be working BACKWARDS. You want to spin your motor as HIGH as possible. If the motor can breath at higher RPM's you're only slowing down the car by not reving it.
Q: 2 motors making the SAME HP, but one makes it 500rpm higher then the other. Which car is faster given proper gearing?
A: The one that makes power higher in the RPM.
Why do you think Purestreet 310's shift at 8200? Or Nascars shift at 9000?
The higher you spin it, the faster you move the air through the motor. Air Velocity = Power.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
AR plugs give me the warm fuzzy feeling because that IS the only thing I changed to when I was blowing out spark. With that I gained 5 tenths and 9 MPH. back to back times at the track. My car with no missfire gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all the time OK
I hear that. Same here. Went to a recessed tip plug (old chrysler plug) and picked up 8 mph.
Drew- what heads and plug combo are you running?
They are Vic Jr heads and Autolite 3924's gapped at .035
--------------------
AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
LOL not anybody can put a centrifical charger on a bad set up and make power that is just ignorant. Seen to many slow supercharged and turbo cars to buy that one. BTW I might have miss informed advancing cam in most cases not all will increase TQ and hurt HP. It all depends on how the cam is matched to the set up. Lightwork LOL you have yet to own a car that is faster than my slowest LOL who is light work, Spinning your motor for the highest RPM you can is all good as long the rotating assy and valve train can hold up. I disagree with your same HP vrs RPM theroy the motor making the same HP at a lower rpm would be more effeicient, achieve peak numbers sooner than the other motor pull ahead because at the same RPM the motor which made the HP number sooner would have more. Getting to the end of the 1/4 sooner is how we win not who gets there with the best MPH.
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
|
posted
Have you tried any different plugs? Different styles/heat ranges/gaps?
2stangs69-91, you gonna be at the track Saturday?
--------------------
1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
LOL not anybody can put a centrifical charger on a bad set up and make power that is just ignorant. Seen to many slow supercharged and turbo cars to buy that one. BTW I might have miss informed advancing cam in most cases not all will increase TQ and hurt HP. It all depends on how the cam is matched to the set up. Lightwork LOL you have yet to own a car that is faster than my slowest LOL who is light work, Spinning your motor for the highest RPM you can is all good as long the rotating assy and valve train can hold up. I disagree with your same HP vrs RPM theroy the motor making the same HP at a lower rpm would be more effeicient, achieve peak numbers sooner than the other motor pull ahead because at the same RPM the motor which made the HP number sooner would have more. Getting to the end of the 1/4 sooner is how we win not who gets there with the best MPH.
Wrong.
As usual.
You don't have to believe me. Just read what the Master's say:
http://www.rehermorrison.com/techTalk/47.htm
I won't even get into Hogging out heads which aids in boosted setups yet severely hinders N/A setups.... It's called Port Velocity. N/A cars need it, Boosted cars CREATE it.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Have you tried any different plugs? Different styles/heat ranges/gaps?
2stangs69-91, you gonna be at the track Saturday?
Have you ever head of an N/A motor blowing out spark?
I haven't tried different plugs, it is strange how this problem occurs. Around 6000 rpm's it is down on power but then picks up again until 6400 and then drops off real bad.
ideas?
--------------------
AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
|
posted
Harmonics doing the tango in your valve springs.
--------------------
'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
JoeT
¯
Member # 298
|
posted
great job with the car.
I think anyone would have to agree that if a car is encountering a problem at an rpm 100 above it's current HP peak, that advancing the cam a little bit is going to improve the on-track performance. Of course solving the spark related problem would be better still.
I see absolutely nothing technically wrong with the earlier statement that advancing the cam is more than likely to improve net area under the TQ curve between the on-track shift points.
Anything else is mindless, pointless bashing of a member with a faster car( correction, 2 faster cars) than (I think) all of us here.
--------------------
1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
| :
|
|
2stangs69-91
¯
Member # 1951
|
posted
I just read the RM article and it makes since. I actualy have that page saved to my Favorites but havn't read that article yet. My favorite is proabably flow bench falicies. It is much easier to try and learn form somebody who has proven to be one of the best than a aragant ass who is self proclaimed.(figure out who you are)
I am not ready to make the 2.5 hour drive to the track yet. I will be down there this winter sometime. I wish I could race your guy's local track all the time. If you have ever raced Redding you will understand LOL it is worth 2 tenths over Redding just from the traction.
I raced N/A for years and I have had plugs that were to hot of a heat range get Glazed(is the term I have heard for it)they actualy get hot spots and will fire early usualy under a heavy load
[ December 14, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
--------------------
69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoeT:
great job with the car.
I think anyone would have to agree that if a car is encountering a problem at an rpm 100 above it's current HP peak, that advancing the cam a little bit is going to improve the on-track performance. Of course solving the spark related problem would be better still.
I see absolutely nothing technically wrong with the earlier statement that advancing the cam is more than likely to improve net area under the TQ curve between the on-track shift points.
Anything else is mindless, pointless bashing of a member with a faster car( correction, 2 faster cars) than (I think) all of us here.
Advancing the cam is a band aide. Since it was a custom then it should of been a smaller cam if lower shift points etc were wanted. The graph is clean and makes avg. power everywhere so this advancing stuff is bogus. As far as power problems above peak power, it all started out at 5000 rpms and is now up to 6500ish. His valve train is setup right. The springs that are in it are used in pure street cars that spin regularly to the 8000 mark. His lifters are Shermans which are modified stock ones which will take spring pressures of solid lifters. This setup was meant to shift out at 6800-7000 RPM. It's peak is right where it should be given that target shift when the setup was in the creating. All that's left is to get it to shift PAST peak power and here comes more mph because he'll be in the meat of the power band it was designed for at the track.
--------------------
1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
Email this post to someone!
Printer friendly view of this Ford topic
