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» Northern California Ford Owners     » Automotive   » Drag Racing   » So how'd everyone do at the shootout tonight??? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: So how'd everyone do at the shootout tonight???
FasterDamnit
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Exactly. Which means the GTO should not have been in the class it was put in. Maybe one of the bracket classes, instead. And if you are the only staff member working the tech- then the hosting club is at fault for not having reps that knew the rules.
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001  |  :
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
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quote:
Originally posted by Team SOLO:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
quote:
Originally posted by Team SOLO:
93Pony, what was unfair about John91Coupe being in stock plus 1? His car definitely fit the rules. Are you saying that just because he is smart and built a fast car that he should be bumped up a class because some 18-22 year old kids couldn't afford to build a 9 second bad ass car like John91? Just trying to understand the logic here....

Nope, I had no problem at all with John running in that class. He fit right in IMO.

I got 'bitched' at from some of the Norcal Staff & was forced to place the faster Fords in the SPA class. From there I took the initiative to place ALL sub 10 second cars in the SPA (stroker+PA) class that were in the PA class (stock+PA). I moved 3 Fords & one Chevy.

That doesn't sound right. Everything I have read is that this race was intended for LS1 Camaro's and 86-current mustangs as it was an EFI race. I understand that carbed cars were put where they could fit depending on violations. My car should be in stock n/a but with all the violations, I would be in Outlaw. That was stated to me, understood, and respected. However, considering that John91Coupe fit the rules 100% (to my knowledge) then he should have been in stock plus 1 unless his violation is that he ran nines which is complete BS!!!
I agree.
The people who were sticklers on the rules were not around during teching...nor did they even attempt to place any cars in any classes. That was left up to the 4 of us rookies teching.....& by that late in the night I for one was not being a stickler for rules. I was simply trying to place the cars where they'd be around the most cars of similar ET. I would have placed your car in one of the N/A classes...probably the stroker N/A class because it's so fast.....My opinion of the rules was cube for cube, power adder for power adder.
But once those 2 8 &9 second mustangs ran, the chevy boys had a fit.
There were 13 second PA cars in that class (not that it matters). But, to keep the peace I moved John & the others to a faster class.....were there were other cars of similar ET/MPH running.

I did not force anybody into Outlaw.....even with 'violations'. I put the cars where they seemed to fit ET/MPH wise.

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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  :
Team SOLO
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I hear where you are coming from. But even if YOU placed me in one of the N/A classes, I would guarantee you that I would be bumped up to Outlaw. Whyt Lie already told me that on the phone Friday night.

[ September 11, 2005, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Team SOLO ]

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Posts: 3887 | From: Santa Clara | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
WRS92GT
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Well in my opinion I have noticed that Sac Raceway has gone way downhill within the last 6 months. This has no reflection upon Shaun or Rob's teching cars yesterday though. In general though from Wednesday night rice nights to T & T Fridays to Grudge Night Saturdays not one track official ever seems to know what direction up is. That probably comes from having 50 different fucking people every week doing tech and running lanes. Lately they have been using these fuckin 14 year old dumbshit kids that know absolutely nothing about pits, teching nor lane direction.

Admission costs seem to vary according to whom is working the ticket kiosk that week. I'm just pretty goddamned fed up with paying good money of mine to sit around watching guys whom are supposed to "tech cars" or "direct cars" and end up looking like a monkey fucking a football! Shaun perhaps you can have a chat with Tony and let him know that half of his staff seem to be suffering from "head up your ass" syndrome. I've already voiced my concerns to him and he didn't seem all that interested in hearing what a customer thought.

Posts: 455 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Nov 2004  |  :
93PONY
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quote:
Originally posted by Team SOLO:
I hear where you are coming from. But even if YOU placed me in one of the N/A classes, I would guarantee you that I would be bumped up to Outlaw. Whyt Lie already told me that on the phone Friday night.

That ain't right.
IMO the rules were made to keep cars of similar ET/MPH running with each other. Not bump them to a 7 second class if you 'didn't build your car to fit their rules'. (as some have been told)

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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  :
Impact 5.0
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Between the Fords and Chevys whats the number of wins per? More chevys or fords?
Posts: 2173 | From: Tracy, CA | Registered: May 2003  |  :
Wildfire532FB
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quote:
Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Knocked out in the first round (10.8@134.6) by a carb'd car in Stroker+PA. [Roll Eyes] No offense to the folks putting on the event, but it was a cluster-fuck. I don't know why they even bothered with lanes, no one stayed in them. [Mad]

Did they even finish up? It was after 11 when I split...and they were still running.

finished at 12 or maybe a little after, there was some drama with that turbo yellow camaro in SPA, he was hiding out in the pits and got a bye run in the 1st race, then wanted another bye run to put him im the finals [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

the staff said no to that dumbass, then brian in the faster white buick ran him for fun and cleaned him out easily [Whoo Whooooo!]

Is that the yellow car that got owned by john91coupe with his best run?
I think the chevy guys cheated, it was supposed to be a regular tree and then they did a protree so john got a crappy reaction time cause he wasn't ready for it and if you notice the yellow car reaction time was good so he knew it was going to be a protree.
We calculated it out and the yellow car beat John by .002 of a second.
[worship] john91coupe 9.35@151mph

[ September 11, 2005, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Cobra5.0Jeep ]

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Posts: 17578 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  :
Wildfire532FB
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
quote:
Originally posted by Team SOLO:
93Pony, what was unfair about John91Coupe being in stock plus 1? His car definitely fit the rules. Are you saying that just because he is smart and built a fast car that he should be bumped up a class because some 18-22 year old kids couldn't afford to build a 9 second bad ass car like John91? Just trying to understand the logic here....

Nope, I had no problem at all with John running in that class. He fit right in IMO.

I got 'bitched' at from some of the Norcal Staff & was forced to place the faster Fords in the SPA class. From there I took the initiative to place ALL sub 10 second cars in the SPA (stroker+PA) class that were in the PA class (stock+PA). I moved 3 Fords & one Chevy.

It figures the Chevy guys would start crying.

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|\_o_ __ __o_/|
|__|..........|__|
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Posts: 17578 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  :
bunchmyfunky
CAFords Drag Racing Mod
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The whole thing was a nightmare. I feel like I was robbed of my money and that the people putting on the event only wanted our money. There was no orginazation after you paid and got in. It was complete BS after the oil down and they suddenly change the running order of the lanes B1 was supposed to go instead they sent us B2 and of course the chevy that I had to race took the good lane and didn't even offer to flip a coin for the lane. I've never been to an event (and I've raced alot) where they changed the running order because someone broke and oiled the lane down. I pulled up into that lane and it looked like snow was covering it. I launched the car and it sat and spun. I'm not happy and WILL NOT ATTEND any of there events in the future. And there was no Ford vs. Chevy it was run who ever you were next too.

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01 GT 5spd

1.76 12.79@105.49

Posts: 2433 | From: Vacaville | Registered: Jul 2001  |  :
kwikrob
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quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
JohnB was simply out-gunned.


Simply is right. Quite a few carb'ed cars were turned away before the event- but the Goat was allowed to run the day of. That's BS and you know it.

I was one of those guys. I basically begged whyte lie to let me run stroker plus power adder. he said no i would have to run outlaw. i wouldn't even have won the spa class, not even top 5. total bs. it's no big deal that the goat had a carb. in fact it was a duel 4 barrel, maybe why he was running stroker class. plus, he drove from reno. that would've been messed up to send him home.

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Posts: 382 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2002  |  :
TRIXSNK
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quote:
Originally posted by bunchmyfunky:
The whole thing was a nightmare. I feel like I was robbed of my money and that the people putting on the event only wanted our money. There was no orginazation after you paid and got in. It was complete BS after the oil down and they suddenly change the running order of the lanes B1 was supposed to go instead they sent us B2 and of course the chevy that I had to race took the good lane and didn't even offer to flip a coin for the lane. I've never been to an event (and I've raced alot) where they changed the running order because someone broke and oiled the lane down. I pulled up into that lane and it looked like snow was covering it. I launched the car and it sat and spun. I'm not happy and WILL NOT ATTEND any of there events in the future. And there was no Ford vs. Chevy it was run who ever you were next too.

All i gotta say is that the whole thing was fuked from start to finish........

Street car event
[Confused]
Organization
[Roll Eyes]
Staff playing favorites
[Mad]

Complete [BS flag]

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9 Sec EVO 9 is GONE!

New project in the works.......

Posts: 3740 | From: Bay Area | Registered: May 2003  |  :
93PONY
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quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
JohnB was simply out-gunned.


Simply is right. Quite a few carb'ed cars were turned away before the event- but the Goat was allowed to run the day of. That's BS and you know it.

Would it have been different if JohnB ran against John91coupe? By the rules JohnB's car was in a faster class....yet he still would have lost horribly.

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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  :
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
JohnB was simply out-gunned.


Simply is right. Quite a few carb'ed cars were turned away before the event- but the Goat was allowed to run the day of. That's BS and you know it.

Would it have been different if JohnB ran against John91coupe? By the rules JohnB's car was in a faster class....yet he still would have lost horribly.
Yes.

Either you set up the rules for a reason or you just forget it and run like any other grudge night.

Come on, there was all this talk about no fiberglass hoods and full interriors, etc. None of that mattered last night. You were left hangin' and did what you could.

Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001  |  :
stockishlx
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yah i saw a fully gutted maro in na class i think not even a dash board..lol o well...i paid for 2 runs [Mad]
Posts: 75 | From: bay area | Registered: Jul 2005  |  :
Dag302
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Wasn't there some issues with this last year? Sound like it is not put together very well.

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Posts: 2842 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Jul 2004  |  :
season'd 88
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[ November 06, 2006, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: season'd 88 ]

Posts: 1383 | Registered: Feb 2001  |  :
dame94
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This isn't going to make ANYONE on here happy.... but when we (me and brian (whyt lie) got there we were told that they didn't even know about our event apparently there was some miscommunication and the staff had already left and gone home(after working the et event earlier)

anyway they (the track management) ensured us that those problems wont happen next year.... and to cover our butt on "our" end: we have plans on renting the track for the WHOLE ENTIRE DAY to make sure we have enough time to get everyone PLENTY of runs.

I know some of you are pissed right now, and I wish our event wasn't on the LAST ET RACE OF THE SEASON (which ran long on top of that)

as far as organization (or lack thereof) is concerned........considering they (the track) told us it was suppose to be from 6-11....THEN WE GET THERE AND THEY SAY ITS OVER!!!!AT 10

We had a choice: get everybody racing ASAP or waste valuable time trying to grouping people up.

BIG THANKS to shaun,Rob, his wife Krissy, and Heather for teching, and helping the best way they could.


Dame

Posts: 19 | From: berkeley | Registered: Jun 2003  |  :
Screamn03
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I had a horrible night with the car:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35175

I thought we had two trial runs before elimintaions which I later figured out (after making a third run) that we didn't so sorry to whoever it was that I ran twice (a 5.0 hatch) and sorry you had to beat me twice...lol.

I had nothing to do with setting up this event and found out about it kinda late so I'm not going to slam it but all these race cars trailed in were pissing me off. I thought it was a GM vs Ford street car event. And then the whole deal with that Nova skipping semi but allowed to race in the final was BS IMO, Jeff S got screwed on that deal.

-Mike-

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Posts: 16 | From: Hayward | Registered: Jun 2005  |  :
WHYT LIE
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Knocked out in the first round (10.8@134.6) by a carb'd car in Stroker+PA. [Roll Eyes] No offense to the folks putting on the event, but it was a cluster-fuck. I don't know why they even bothered with lanes, no one stayed in them. [Mad]

Did they even finish up? It was after 11 when I split...and they were still running.

No offense taken... but what problems did you see? I am trying to figure out the problems people saw and fix them for the next event.

The biggest problems that I was aware of was the prior event cutting nearly 1 1/2 hours into our event. The last race was at 11:45pm and we were supposed to be done at 10:30-11:00pm. Also, turns out the lanes are FREAKING MARKED WRONG, which is on Sacramento Raceway.

This caused people to be in the wrong lane, which burned up a LOT of time and caused a ton of headaches. How do we as organizers correct that?

The other thing was the trucks/trailers/cars up front from the prior event that took up all our room... we were going to put the Grudge/Loser lane over there, but there was no way we could. And with starting so late, there just was no time with the amount of cars we had... to run Grudge/Loser lane.

Next year we will be renting the track for the entire day and won't have the issues of time constraints and folks WILL get many more runs.

Also, the 35 minute "break" we had for the cleanup from the "oil down" from the Turbo Mustang... which BTW cost us $275 worth of VHT and Alcohal. The same EXACT thing happened to him already? Seems that car needs to be gone COMPLETELY over again and EVERY nut/bolt/fitting touched again.

So, if you have any complaints or grievences, please post them up... in fact, I'll start a new thread for that. I want next years event to run smooth and for everyone to be happy.

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WHYT LIE
'96 Camaro Z-28 (Artic White) hardtop 6-spd
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Posts: 113 | From: Lincoln, CA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  :
WHYT LIE
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quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
JohnB was robbed by a racing a car that was NOT legal for the class it was in.

bunchmyfunky had to go up after the oil down and try and race in the damn speedy dry- so no wonder he spun and went no-where. bogus. And what happened to Ford vs. Chevy??? Cars were simply run how they were lined up and quite a few imprts were racing, too. The LS1 RX7's were cool and I can see letting those guys run in an LS1 sponsered event. And why were all those race cars that raced during the day allowed to run in Bracket 1???


[Confused]

This was NOT a Ford vs Chevy Event. It was a NORCAL Shootout event... "Norcal" as in Norcal LS1 car club providing the event and Norcal as in Northern California. Our only limiations were no imports (which sorta got relaxed) and NO front wheel drive cars, so they wouldn't tear up the track.

As for the car having to race in the "speedy dry", that isn't OUR fault. The track runs it how they do, and the car that oiled down is ultimately responsible for that.

If any car wasn't legal for the class they were in, the other people in that class should have brought it to the attention of a staff member to correct... can't put blame there, sorry.

Once again, I'll start a thread were all grievences can be aired so we can learn and better the next event.

Thanks to all who supported us by coming out, racing, and hopefully having a good time.

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WHYT LIE
'96 Camaro Z-28 (Artic White) hardtop 6-spd
10.78 @ 129mph 1.51 60ft

ZO SIC
'02 Corvette Z06 (Quicksilver)
11.88 @ 121.6mph 1.97 60ft

Posts: 113 | From: Lincoln, CA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  :
WHYT LIE
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Yes it was a cluster fuck.
I got there around 5:45 & they were just letting people in. 30 minutes later & they were still running the cars from the previous event....& no one was teching the incoming cars.

Rob, his wife Krissy, Heather & I did our best to blow everybody through tech since it was getting so late. Sorry if I put a few of you in the wrong class.....we were more concerned with getting the racing started as we teched the last car at 7:45!

They had 8 classes & 7 lanes with no lane designated for lossers....nor any lane designated for each class....which I took care of a little late & that's why there was some confusion on who was in what lane. I tried my best to have them open up lane 1 for fun runs....but after the turbo car layed down a few quarts of oil......they decided to let the lossers sit in the Pit area..... Some of those guys got only 2 runs in. Then there was the 'cleanup' of the oil. Why Brandon didn't burn it off I don't know....but that lane was useless after 40 minutes of cleanup.

At that point it was 10:30pm.....there was no way they were going to be able to open up a fun-run lane.

IMO the event was great to watch, I had a good time doing what I could to keep things moving, but it was not well orginized (a lot of standing around talking & little action) & most of the racers had plenty to complain about. I would too if I'd been racing.

In the end....it was a success for Norcal as the turnout was awesome, but not a lot of fun for most racers.

First off, the gates were not supposed to open until 6:00pm... as the prior event was not over untill 6:00pm. The track made us open the gate early as cars were lining up all the way out to and onto Excelsior Rd, which can create fines from the County.

Second, thanks a TON to Shawn (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) his wife Heather, Rob, and Krissy for the work they did. There was so much to do, I didn't have a chance to help tech/classify cars myself. They stepped up and did an AWESOME job and made that process as fast as possible. Much appreciated from me and the rest of our Club.

Third, there must have been some miscomunication, as I was standing with you, Rob and Tony (the track guy) when we were explaining that cars with 1xx were in lane one. Cars with 6xx were in lane 6, etc. The problem came from the track NUMBERING the lanes wrong...

As for the loser lane... They were going to line up along the far right hand side, but the prior events trucks/trailers/cars were still there so we couldn't use that area. Outlaw was supposed to be there as well.

Shit, it was such a cluster fuck that we got to the track and they didn't even know we were supposed to be holding our event... How the FUCK do they not know or forget that???

Not to mention the track running the prior events classes nearly 1.5 hours into our time... That totally burned up the time we could have used for fun runs. Not to mention the lane marking fuggup which caused a lot of the standing around bit.

Tony (the track official) was in charge of running the event and the lanes... he was payed $500 for this. I don't know how WE could have done anything better.

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WHYT LIE
'96 Camaro Z-28 (Artic White) hardtop 6-spd
10.78 @ 129mph 1.51 60ft

ZO SIC
'02 Corvette Z06 (Quicksilver)
11.88 @ 121.6mph 1.97 60ft

Posts: 113 | From: Lincoln, CA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  :
WHYT LIE
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
JohnB was robbed by a racing a car that was NOT legal for the class it was in.

bunchmyfunky had to go up after the oil down and try and race in the damn speedy dry- so no wonder he spun and went no-where. bogus. And what happened to Ford vs. Chevy??? Cars were simply run how they were lined up and quite a few imprts were racing, too. The LS1 RX7's were cool and I can see letting those guys run in an LS1 sponsered event. And why were all those race cars that raced during the day allowed to run in Bracket 1???


[Confused]

A few classes were questionable..... Like John91coupe fitting into stock+1 power adder & a few others. I eventually moved all single digit cars to the stroker+power adder lane....which was suppose to be one step up from stock+power adder. JohnB was simply out-gunned. The only other class to put those guys in was Outlaw....which they definately didn't fit into.

I put the electronic equiped cars in Bracket 1. That class had 2 cars in it.....I figured, 'what the hell' & let 3 electronic equiped cars from the previous race in that class. It got a few other fast cars out there & the electronic equiped cars made for some close races when they lined up with each other. I wasn't about to exclude anybody from racing! & that's why we let the imports race as well. We put them in bracket 2 as that was their best chance at winning.

As for Ford vs Chevy..... It was not well orginized. I saw only track officials calling lanes to race. No one from Norcal took the initiative to place Fords vs Chevys. It seemed this was more of a 'Norcal Event' rather then Ford Vs Chevy.

This event was NOT proposed or advertised as a Ford vs Chevy event... it was "NORCAL SHOOTOUT 2005" which can be taken as Norcal LS1 or Northern California. No need to make it Ford against Chevy in a race such as this.

We plan on another smaller EFI ONLY venue next spring. This WILL be Ford vs Chevy and will be lining up Ford against Chevy until the final round... as long as there are enough cars to make the split work.

And the track was PAID to pull the cars, line them up, etc. We were supposed to take care of other things. I think people got the wrong impression about this event...

The electronic cars were NOT supposed to be using their electronics... I told them if I hear them using a delay box or stutter box, or throttle stop I would eliminate them. But I couldn't watch every run. I don't think I stood in one place for more then 60 seconds at one time the entire night. Next time, they will NOT be allowed to run, as they lied directly to me.

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WHYT LIE
'96 Camaro Z-28 (Artic White) hardtop 6-spd
10.78 @ 129mph 1.51 60ft

ZO SIC
'02 Corvette Z06 (Quicksilver)
11.88 @ 121.6mph 1.97 60ft

Posts: 113 | From: Lincoln, CA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  :
WHYT LIE
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Member # 5925

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Ok, this is getting out of hand. We (Norcal LS1 and the staff) are getting a lot of blame we don't deserve. The track and the track officals are the reason most of these things happened.

Now, there are a number of issues that ARE our faults and I have no problem admitting that.

1) The time constraints because of the prior event running long. Remedy? Next year for the "large" event such as this one, we are going to rent the track for the entire day.

2) The track not even knowing we were supposed to be there that night. Remedy? Have a meeting with the track/officals the week of the event and make sure they are aware of what is actually on THEIR Calender.

3) The rules will be dialed in more next time. This event evolved over time from one thing to another... ever heard of too many cooks in the kitchen or too many chiefs and not enough indians? Remedy? Next time, only one or two people will make the decisions to the best of their ability.

4) Number of runs per car/driver were low. Remedy? More time next event will permit a fair number of runs for the money.

5) Grudge/Loser lane, non existant. Remedy? Next event we will have the ENTIRE track to ourselves and won't have to worry about space limitations like we did this event. Also, first round loser buy back.

6) Poorly organized. Remedy? Now we know what we can depend on the track/officals to do and next time be prepared to have more help and what needs to be done.


I can tell you this... If I personally were racing, I would be upset. But I've been to Grudge nights (NORMAL Sacto run grudge nights) where I was there ALL night from open to close and got 2 or 3 runs in. However this was NOT a grudge night, but an actual race. Ask the people who won the money/trophis if they had a good time and thought it was worth the time/money.

I will personally appologize for the mistakes, disorganization, and lack of direction for the event. I hope you do not hold it against our car club or think we were just out to make money. We do donate a good amount of money towards charities from the money we make, and the more money we have in our account the more events we can put on.

How many other events with this idea behind it are available in Northern California, let alone the West Coast?

So once again, sorry for anyone who is upset or feels wronged.

This next year we hope to put on two events. One will be a Ford vs GM event (line up Mustang vs Camaro until the finals, etc) which will be late model EFI ONLY! This event will be on a Sat night in late April or early May (hopefully.)

Then in Sept we hope to put on an event such as this past one, but rent the track for the ENTIRE day. Have more classes and take our time and make sure folks get the number of runs they should.

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WHYT LIE
'96 Camaro Z-28 (Artic White) hardtop 6-spd
10.78 @ 129mph 1.51 60ft

ZO SIC
'02 Corvette Z06 (Quicksilver)
11.88 @ 121.6mph 1.97 60ft

Posts: 113 | From: Lincoln, CA | Registered: Aug 2005  |  :
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60

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Just a suggestion:

Too many rules only makes things worse. Add $$$ with purses & you'll get a mess like this. People are gonna bitch when there's rules & $$$ involved.

My opinion would be to have a grudge-type event (like you suggested) with no extra rules. SImply racing Ford Vs Chevy....or Ford Vs Ford, or Chevy Vs Chevy. Basically a typical Grudge night but have the track rented. Have sponsors that setup booths for advertising....or whatever. HCI would love to setup a booth at an event like that. I realize some of the 'Big dogs' wouldn't come out due to a lack of purse, but some would still come out for some fun...

Oh....& if there's 2 events scheduled that day, it's best to be the first.
Mid Spring would also be my preference as the weather is more suited to running faster......although rain delay's can happen.

Also the Sportsman vs Pro tree's got a lot of people confused. The general concessus from what I heard was that only Outlaw should have had a Pro tree. All others .500 Full.

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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning

(916)715-7569

Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  :
TRIXSNK
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Member # 2844

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Anyone know what happened to Rick and his Cobra?

Tony, Marc i didn't even get to see you guys or your cars run how did you guys do (or did you even race?)

John it was nice to meet you and your coupe is really clean [worship]

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9 Sec EVO 9 is GONE!

New project in the works.......

Posts: 3740 | From: Bay Area | Registered: May 2003  |  :


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