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Author
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Topic: LSX Mustang?
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
 
 
Damnit!
Somebody beat me to it!
Although I want an all-motor LSX in a Fox Coupe with a Turbo 400 be hind it... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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*BlueBeast88.306*
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Member # 6360
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posted
If I ever drop a GM engine into a Ford I will have to kick my own ass!
Posts: 462 | From: Concord | Registered: Jan 2006
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subsGT
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Member # 6015
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306:
If I ever drop a GM engine into a Ford I will have to kick my own ass!
if I don't kick it first...
Posts: 223 | From: YC | Registered: Sep 2005
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svfreerider87
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Member # 5748
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posted
supra killer!
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Dreamspeed Motorsports
Posts: 1685 | From: Sunnyvale | Registered: Jun 2005
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*BlueBeast88.306*
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Member # 6360
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by subsGT:
quote:
Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306:
If I ever drop a GM engine into a Ford I will have to kick my own ass!
if I don't kick it first...
Thanks for looking out.
Posts: 462 | From: Concord | Registered: Jan 2006
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cummins
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Member # 5931
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by svfreerider87:
supra killer!
Nope! And even if it was a Supra killer its kinda funny that a stang would need a chebby transplant to do it!
I think its a cool idea! I'm thinking of putting an ls1 in my jeep.
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Your definitely jealous of my strength and brains. - 68_427_Fastback
Cummins looks like the Wendy's girl......without the pig tails. - JT
Posts: 3441 | From: The Rice Fields | Registered: Aug 2005
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1FAST89GT
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Member # 5071
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306:
If I ever drop a GM engine into a Ford I will have to kick my own ass!
+1
Posts: 4915 | From: VALLEJO | Registered: May 2004
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cummins
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Member # 5931
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posted
What's wrong with dropping an lsx into a stang?
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Your definitely jealous of my strength and brains. - 68_427_Fastback
Cummins looks like the Wendy's girl......without the pig tails. - JT
Posts: 3441 | From: The Rice Fields | Registered: Aug 2005
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1fast281
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Member # 4670
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posted
I'm planning on getting a C4 Vette and putting a Ford powerplant into it...
Posts: 578 | From: north bay | Registered: Jul 2004
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cummins
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Member # 5931
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
quote:
Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306:
If I ever drop a GM engine into a Ford I will have to kick my own ass!
+2
-100
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Your definitely jealous of my strength and brains. - 68_427_Fastback
Cummins looks like the Wendy's girl......without the pig tails. - JT
Posts: 3441 | From: The Rice Fields | Registered: Aug 2005
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by cummins:
What's wrong with dropping an lsx into a stang?
not a damn thing ![[Whoo Whooooo!]](graemlins/woowoo.gif)
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 1fast281:
I'm planning on getting a C4 Vette and putting a Ford powerplant into it...
huh...............weird
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
everything is wrong with putting a GM in a Ford, To many wicked Fast Fords out there to even bother with the chev junk.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
LOL
Ford For Life Dude ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) WHO gives a shit as longs as it hauls ass! There are more and more GM Powered Mustangs in racing these days,get used to it ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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Le Blanc
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Member # 6602
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posted
So let me get this straight, let's spend 4 grand for a used 300 hp ls1 that will only run for 90k miles or build a roller ford for 4 grand and make 400 hp and go 200k miles. Hmmmm what would you choose?!?
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3 valves per
Posts: 139 | From: Cam Park | Registered: Mar 2006
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
I'm a die hard Ford lover, but if there's a better power plant out there I'll be the first one to admit it. There's no comparison IMO. The LS series motors are superior to a SBF.
The only heads I know of for a SBF that can compare (power wise) are the CHI heads (cleveland style). & Even then I think the LS7 heads are damn close.
Behond that a lot of the benefits come in the weight department. The Aluminum LS1/LS2 blocks are a good 75+lbs lighter than a 302 (let alone a 351!). Same with the heads....an LS1 head weighs 15+lbs lighter than an aluminum SBF head. All this with the displacement equivilent to a 9.5 deck SBF motor. The EFI intake of the LS series is superior to the EFI Ford, the head design is superior, the blocks can handle more power, they're a 'Y' block design which gives more main support. Coil on plug......now Edelbrock has a line of carburator style inakes for them....
The SBF has it's advantages too.....like a MUCH lighter rotating assembly, but advantages of the LS out weighs the shortcomings IMO.
A buddy around here has an odd-ball 11:1 compression 383 LS1 with box-stock ETP 225cc heads, Edelbrock intake, Accufab 4-barrel TB, hydrualic roller camshaft, & longtubes...still uses the stock rocker arms. Damn thing puts out over 500RWHP from 5800rpm to over 7000rpm on pump gas through an Auto. At 3550lbs with the wrong gearing & a super loose converter it's run 10.56 @131.9mph on MOTOR. Imagine this motor in a Fox coupe with a raceweight under 3000lbs in a car with full interior, no serious weight reduction. 9's @135+MPH on pump gas driving to/from the track. Fully streetable/reliable 9's on crap CA gas.....now THAT is a motor/car combo!
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
you have to be kidding me. Go build your self a 383 SBF ford one of these days and then compare. You are comparing what you have built which are Ford engines that are close to 40 cubes smaller....... If you go to the real Ford engine builder pages you will find plenty of 9 sec NA street driven Fox bodies. With stroker SBF windsor engines.
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
you have to be kidding me. Go build your self a 383 SBF ford one of these days and then compare. You are comparing what you have built which are Ford engines that are close to 40 cubes smaller....... If you go to the real Ford engine builder pages you will find plenty of 9 sec NA street driven Fox bodies. With stroker SBF windsor engines.
Never said it couldn't be done!
Simply said that with the LSX it's a little easier. Plus the weight difference of over 100lbs (351 basd vs 346 base).
The LSX motor is not allowed in engine building competitions....it would dominate.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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*BlueBeast88.306*
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Member # 6360
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
I'm a die hard Ford lover, but if there's a better power plant out there I'll be the first one to admit it. There's no comparison IMO. The LS series motors are superior to a SBF.
The only heads I know of for a SBF that can compare (power wise) are the CHI heads (cleveland style). & Even then I think the LS7 heads are damn close.
Behond that a lot of the benefits come in the weight department. The Aluminum LS1/LS2 blocks are a good 75+lbs lighter than a 302 (let alone a 351!). Same with the heads....an LS1 head weighs 15+lbs lighter than an aluminum SBF head. All this with the displacement equivilent to a 9.5 deck SBF motor. The EFI intake of the LS series is superior to the EFI Ford, the head design is superior, the blocks can handle more power, they're a 'Y' block design which gives more main support. Coil on plug......now Edelbrock has a line of carburator style inakes for them....
The SBF has it's advantages too.....like a MUCH lighter rotating assembly, but advantages of the LS out weighs the shortcomings IMO.
A buddy around here has an odd-ball 11:1 compression 383 LS1 with box-stock ETP 225cc heads, Edelbrock intake, Accufab 4-barrel TB, hydrualic roller camshaft, & longtubes...still uses the stock rocker arms. Damn thing puts out over 500RWHP from 5800rpm to over 7000rpm on pump gas through an Auto. At 3550lbs with the wrong gearing & a super loose converter it's run 10.56 @131.9mph on MOTOR. Imagine this motor in a Fox coupe with a raceweight under 3000lbs in a car with full interior, no serious weight reduction. 9's @135+MPH on pump gas driving to/from the track. Fully streetable/reliable 9's on crap CA gas.....now THAT is a motor/car combo!
But I'm mainly talking about a car that is avaliable with an all aluminum 4.6 that has 24 valves is super light, and with stock internals and a Pro-Charger has put out around 700hp at 281ci. I'm sure each make has advantages, but when you take the stock engine with that much of a displacement difference and get that much power, it seems pointless. Not to mention if you go with a built 24 valve with heads,cams and forged rotating/reciprocating assembly, etc. the potential is pretty awesome.
But hey, put what ever you want in your car. I was just saying I'll NEVER put a GM engine in the same garage as my car. Besides it's more fun to smoke LS1,7,X "whatevers" with a measly 281ci or 306 ci anyway.
Posts: 462 | From: Concord | Registered: Jan 2006
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
that is your opinion on it dominating. Since it is not allowed you can only guess. Are 5.4 dual overhead camed N/A Ford engines allowed in the competitions?
[ February 11, 2007, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
I'm a die hard Ford lover, but if there's a better power plant out there I'll be the first one to admit it. There's no comparison IMO. The LS series motors are superior to a SBF.
The only heads I know of for a SBF that can compare (power wise) are the CHI heads (cleveland style). & Even then I think the LS7 heads are damn close.
Behond that a lot of the benefits come in the weight department. The Aluminum LS1/LS2 blocks are a good 75+lbs lighter than a 302 (let alone a 351!). Same with the heads....an LS1 head weighs 15+lbs lighter than an aluminum SBF head. All this with the displacement equivilent to a 9.5 deck SBF motor. The EFI intake of the LS series is superior to the EFI Ford, the head design is superior, the blocks can handle more power, they're a 'Y' block design which gives more main support. Coil on plug......now Edelbrock has a line of carburator style inakes for them....
The SBF has it's advantages too.....like a MUCH lighter rotating assembly, but advantages of the LS out weighs the shortcomings IMO.
A buddy around here has an odd-ball 11:1 compression 383 LS1 with box-stock ETP 225cc heads, Edelbrock intake, Accufab 4-barrel TB, hydrualic roller camshaft, & longtubes...still uses the stock rocker arms. Damn thing puts out over 500RWHP from 5800rpm to over 7000rpm on pump gas through an Auto. At 3550lbs with the wrong gearing & a super loose converter it's run 10.56 @131.9mph on MOTOR. Imagine this motor in a Fox coupe with a raceweight under 3000lbs in a car with full interior, no serious weight reduction. 9's @135+MPH on pump gas driving to/from the track. Fully streetable/reliable 9's on crap CA gas.....now THAT is a motor/car combo!
But I'm mainly talking about a car that is avaliable with an all aluminum 4.6 that has 24 valves is super light, and with stock internals and a Pro-Charger has put out around 700hp at 281ci. I'm sure each make has advantages, but when you take the stock engine with that much of a displacement difference and get that much power, it seems pointless. Not to mention if you go with a built 24 valve with heads,cams and forged rotating/reciprocating assembly, etc. the potential is pretty awesome.
But hey, put what ever you want in your car. I was just saying I'll NEVER put a GM engine in the same garage as my car. Besides it's more fun to smoke LS1,7,X "whatevers" with a measly 281ci or 306 ci anyway.
You mean 32 Valve?
I've got a few 4.6 4V projects going.... I'd take a Windsor based motor over a 4V ANY DAY!
3.552" bore!?! Small-bore to fit in front wheel drive cars. This is the biggest factor limiting the performance potential of these motors.
Sure the 4V's heads flow great.....they should, damn intake/exhaust port volume is HUGE. The need all the stroke they can get to make any sort of bottome end. Stock they have more stroke than a 351.
Can't bore the damn things much either (which is what the really need!).... The 'big bore' setup is 3.70" & costs a grip. (I have a $4800 world products block in the shop....that's a BARE un-machined block.)
There's no cam bearings. Run it low on oil just once & you run the risk of damaging the $1500 heads behond repair. These are Steel camshafts in Aluminum heads with nothing but oil between them. Same with running the wrong viscosity oil....had a customer run 20W-50 on an 01 Cobra once. Timing chian tensioners couldn't bleed off enough pressure.... stretched the intermediate chains (between the 2 cams), pulling the cams towards each other melting the aluminum of the cam journals.....the chains broke destroying $1K in valvetrain components. (lash adjusters are $10 each, same with rockers & there's 32 of each). Not to mention the cost of new heads/cams/timing chains/tensioners/guides/gears. That's one hell of an expensive oil change!
Intake design sucks....the plenum sits lower than the heads in the the lifter valley... Run a wet shot of N2O through there & there's a serious risk of fuel puddling in the bottom of the plenum & causing a huge nitrous backfire.
The 2V stuff is even worse. Damn head design sucks ass. The 'hot spot' in the head is the sparkplug boss. Ford had to put an airflow deflector impeading intake airflow to force the incoming air accross the sparkplug in an effort to cool the damn thing down. Ever wonder why they spit sparkplugs? When the detonate the aluminum spark plug boss melts. There's 3.5 threads holding in the sparkplug.....melt off a few threads & the spark plug comes shooting out at high velocity. Fords 'Fix' was to give the heads 8 threads. Wow....what a fix...does absolutely nothing but band-aid the problem.
The motors aren't light either. Rotating assembly weighs within a pound or 2 of an LS1. 4V heads weigh as much as E7's.
Yes, the motor can make a LOT of power & are very efficient for what they are.....but I'd take a pushrod 5.0 ANY DAY over a current modular.
FAR more potential from a SBF or LSX than the modulars.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
that is your opinion on it dominating. Since it is not allowed you can only guess. Are 5.4 dual overhead camed N/A Ford engines allowed in the competitions?
Does sa 3.552" bore x 4.165" stroke with heads that flow 300cfm sound like a billy-bad ass combination to you?
I don't know....the LS7 is a work of art from the factory.
4.125" bore x 4" stroke with heads that flow 370cfm & turns more RPM than a 4V.....
They recently broke the 9 second barrier with a stock headed N/A ZO6.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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