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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 93PONY: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by BlueBeast88.306: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by 93PONY: [qb] I'm a die hard Ford lover, but if there's a better power plant out there I'll be the first one to admit it. There's no comparison IMO. The LS series motors are superior to a SBF. The only heads I know of for a SBF that can compare (power wise) are the CHI heads (cleveland style). & Even then I think the LS7 heads are damn close. Behond that a lot of the benefits come in the weight department. The Aluminum LS1/LS2 blocks are a good 75+lbs lighter than a 302 (let alone a 351!). Same with the heads....an LS1 head weighs 15+lbs lighter than an aluminum SBF head. All this with the displacement equivilent to a 9.5 deck SBF motor. The EFI intake of the LS series is superior to the EFI Ford, the head design is superior, the blocks can handle more power, they're a 'Y' block design which gives more main support. Coil on plug......now Edelbrock has a line of carburator style inakes for them.... The SBF has it's advantages too.....like a MUCH lighter rotating assembly, but advantages of the LS out weighs the shortcomings IMO. A buddy around here has an odd-ball 11:1 compression 383 LS1 with box-stock ETP 225cc heads, Edelbrock intake, Accufab 4-barrel TB, hydrualic roller camshaft, & longtubes...still uses the stock rocker arms. Damn thing puts out over 500RWHP from 5800rpm to over 7000rpm on pump gas through an Auto. At 3550lbs with the wrong gearing & a super loose converter it's run 10.56 @131.9mph on MOTOR. Imagine this motor in a Fox coupe with a raceweight under 3000lbs in a car with full interior, no serious weight reduction. 9's @135+MPH on pump gas driving to/from the track. Fully streetable/reliable 9's on crap CA gas.....now THAT is a motor/car combo! [/qb][/QUOTE]But I'm mainly talking about a car that is avaliable with an all aluminum 4.6 that has 24 valves is super light, and with stock internals and a Pro-Charger has put out around 700hp at 281ci. I'm sure each make has advantages, but when you take the stock engine with that much of a displacement difference and get that much power, it seems pointless. Not to mention if you go with a built 24 valve with heads,cams and forged rotating/reciprocating assembly, etc. the potential is pretty awesome. But hey, put what ever you want in your car. I was just saying I'll NEVER put a GM engine in the same garage as my car. Besides it's more fun to smoke LS1,7,X "whatevers" with a measly 281ci or 306 ci anyway. :burnout: [/qb][/QUOTE]You mean 32 Valve? I've got a few 4.6 4V projects going.... I'd take a Windsor based motor over a 4V ANY DAY! 3.552" bore!?! Small-bore to fit in front wheel drive cars. This is the biggest factor limiting the performance potential of these motors. Sure the 4V's heads flow great.....they should, damn intake/exhaust port volume is HUGE. The need all the stroke they can get to make any sort of bottome end. Stock they have more stroke than a 351. Can't bore the damn things much either (which is what the really need!).... The 'big bore' setup is 3.70" & costs a grip. (I have a $4800 world products block in the shop....that's a BARE un-machined block.) There's no cam bearings. Run it low on oil just once & you run the risk of damaging the $1500 heads behond repair. These are Steel camshafts in Aluminum heads with nothing but oil between them. Same with running the wrong viscosity oil....had a customer run 20W-50 on an 01 Cobra once. Timing chian tensioners couldn't bleed off enough pressure.... stretched the intermediate chains (between the 2 cams), pulling the cams towards each other melting the aluminum of the cam journals.....the chains broke destroying $1K in valvetrain components. (lash adjusters are $10 each, same with rockers & there's 32 of each). Not to mention the cost of new heads/cams/timing chains/tensioners/guides/gears. That's one hell of an expensive oil change! Intake design sucks....the plenum sits lower than the heads in the the lifter valley... Run a wet shot of N2O through there & there's a serious risk of fuel puddling in the bottom of the plenum & causing a huge nitrous backfire. The 2V stuff is even worse. Damn head design sucks ass. The 'hot spot' in the head is the sparkplug boss. Ford had to put an airflow deflector impeading intake airflow to force the incoming air accross the sparkplug in an effort to cool the damn thing down. Ever wonder why they spit sparkplugs? When the detonate the aluminum spark plug boss melts. There's 3.5 threads holding in the sparkplug.....melt off a few threads & the spark plug comes shooting out at high velocity. Fords 'Fix' was to give the heads 8 threads. Wow....what a fix...does absolutely nothing but band-aid the problem. The motors aren't light either. Rotating assembly weighs within a pound or 2 of an LS1. 4V heads weigh as much as E7's. Yes, the motor can make a LOT of power & are very efficient for what they are.....but I'd take a pushrod 5.0 ANY DAY over a current modular. FAR more potential from a SBF or LSX than the modulars. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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