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Author
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Topic: New Orlean's Mayor on the catastrophe
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
 
 
(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.
The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:
NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)
You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.
And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of ******* -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.
WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?
NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."
Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.
And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.
They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.
I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?
NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.
We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.
You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."
WWL: Who'd you say that to?
NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.
And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.
And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.
In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there
So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.
WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?
NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.
Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.
I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.
WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?
NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.
WWL: Did the governor do that, too?
NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.
But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.
I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.
And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.
Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.
And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.
You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.
And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.
WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.
NAGIN: Really?
WWL: I know you don't feel that way.
NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?
You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?
And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.
WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.
NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.
Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.
You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.
And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.
WWL: What can we do here?
NAGIN: Keep talking about it.
WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?
NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.
I don't want to see anybody do anymore ******* press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.
Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest ******* crisis in the history of this country.
WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.
NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.
WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.
NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.
WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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5.0_707
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Member # 5893
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posted
![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif) to the mayor!
Posts: 888 | From: 707 | Registered: Aug 2005
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91 5.0 5speed
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Member # 1867
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posted
I agree with everything the mayor said!
Posts: 1383 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2002
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
“It’s devastating,” said "W" looking out the window of AF-1, “It’s got to be doubly devastating on the ground.” 
[ September 02, 2005, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: FasterDamnit ]
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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SFvert
Drama kids have no place here
Member # 3965
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
“It’s devastating,” said "W" looking out the window of AF-1, “It’s got to be doubly devastating on the ground.”
what a president.... ![[BS flag]](graemlins/bs_flag.gif) at least he admitted the response was slow too! lol,
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I bring the Amber Lamps!!!
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Posts: 3706 | From: the city by the bay | Registered: Jan 2004
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SFvert
Drama kids have no place here
Member # 3965
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posted
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now,,, oh and P.S. this tragedy probably couldnt have been avoided ,but could of been a lot less worse ,, did u know that a year ago the army corp of enginneers requested for a substantial amount of money to upgrade the aging levies, and bush only gave them about 20 percent of the mnoney they needed. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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R.I.P. 89 LX Sold the 90 Vert,
I bring the Amber Lamps!!!
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Posts: 3706 | From: the city by the bay | Registered: Jan 2004
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Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now,,, oh and P.S. this tragedy probably couldnt have been avoided ,but could of been a lot less worse ,, did u know that a year ago the army corp of enginneers requested for a substantial amount of money to upgrade the aging levies, and bush only gave them about 20 percent of the mnoney they needed.
i thought it was the New Orleans government that only gave them 20 percent?
Anyway i read somewhere that if they had destoryed the natural marshes around New Orleans the damage wouldn't have been so bad.
[ September 03, 2005, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Cobra5.0Jeep ]
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Posts: 17580 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
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SFvert
Drama kids have no place here
Member # 3965
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now,,, oh and P.S. this tragedy probably couldnt have been avoided ,but could of been a lot less worse ,, did u know that a year ago the army corp of enginneers requested for a substantial amount of money to upgrade the aging levies, and bush only gave them about 20 percent of the mnoney they needed.
i thought it was the New Orleans government that only gave them 20 percent?
Anyway i read somewhere that if they had destoryed the natural marshes around New Orleans the damage wouldn't have been so bad.
nope it was federally funded,, bush said flood protection was one of his main priorities ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) and you just cant go around destroyin natural marshes dana,, think,, that would be much more destructive to the environment not to mention more costlier than to just retrofit the levees, like what we're doing with the bay bridge..
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R.I.P. 89 LX Sold the 90 Vert,
I bring the Amber Lamps!!!
[IMG]http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/53/Epicbeardmanwin.jpg[/IMG]
Posts: 3706 | From: the city by the bay | Registered: Jan 2004
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Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now,,, oh and P.S. this tragedy probably couldnt have been avoided ,but could of been a lot less worse ,, did u know that a year ago the army corp of enginneers requested for a substantial amount of money to upgrade the aging levies, and bush only gave them about 20 percent of the mnoney they needed.
i thought it was the New Orleans government that only gave them 20 percent?
Anyway i read somewhere that if they had destoryed the natural marshes around New Orleans the damage wouldn't have been so bad.
nope it was federally funded,, bush said flood protection was one of his main priorities and you just cant go around destroyin natural marshes dana,, think,, that would be much more destructive to the environment not to mention more costlier than to just retrofit the levees, like what we're doing with the bay bridge..
thats what i read they did they started building into the marshes and filling them in. The marsh land was the land that was below sea level. They built the levees because they wanted to dry that area up to build more.
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Posts: 17580 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
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WantedCOBRA
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Member # 3150
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posted
Well, almost the entire city of New Orleans sits below sea level people. No matter what marshes you have or where they are, if you sit below sea level you have to channel your water. Hence, the channels fail and the natural laws of physics and gravity take over and the water rushes to the low spots, which in this case is almost all of New Orleans.
WAPT-TV has the audio of the mayors speech. Hopefully those of yo uthat havent listened to it yet will do so.
Posts: 127 | From: Fairfield, CALIFORNIA | Registered: Aug 2003
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liftedF150
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Member # 868
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![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif) I do believe though that there is no point in rebuilding a city that was built on a sand bar 6' below sea level... its just a waste of money.
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GO SHARKS!
Posts: 3259 | From: Discovery Bay | Registered: Feb 2002
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Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by boostin1.8:
I do believe though that there is no point in rebuilding a city that was built on a sand bar 6' below sea level... its just a waste of money.
I agree with that.
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Posts: 17580 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eddie510-
CAFords OG
Member # 2354
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
quote:
Originally posted by boostin1.8:
I do believe though that there is no point in rebuilding a city that was built on a sand bar 6' below sea level... its just a waste of money.
I agree with that.
Same as well, so this can happen again, really they shouldnt
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Posts: 6557 | Registered: Jan 2003
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AL STOCK
Its All Stock
Cuzzon
Member # 1852
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now
Even the Mayor proved it ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ September 03, 2005, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: AL STOCK ]
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Posts: 6501 | From: San Bruno | Registered: Sep 2002
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
I like how most of the people that posted on my other thread have STFU now
The other thread is locked. Of course the Mayor is going to say the response is slow, HE'S THE FUCKING MAYOR. After all is said and done, the question will be raised...
"You gave the evacuation order, why did the residents stay?"
It's not rocket science. Hurricane warning is issued, you leave. Pretty simple.
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Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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iron281
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Member # 80
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Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
146 buses at this facility, on Canal Street, which is less than a mile from the Superdome.
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
255 more buses at the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool.
By rough count, well over 20,000 people could have been evacced in one run out of the city.
But instead, all these buses now sit in 6 feet of water, wasted, useless, and leaking tons of diesel fuel.
What say ye Mr. Mayor? Mr. Jesse Jackson? Anyone?
[ September 04, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: iron281 ]
Posts: 385 | From: San Jose, California | Registered: Nov 2000
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RixSikCobra
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Member # 5058
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This mayor is acting like a little kid. This guy is pointing fingers to redirect blame from himself....just like a child would.
Well, my friends some of us don't buy this high road he's apparently taken. It's funny how he has all fot he answers after the fact. He is just as much to blame for this as any state or federal politician. He knows he fucked up, he knew things needed to be fixed and IT DIDN'T GET DONE ON HIS WATCH. Some of the things are outta his control, but some things I'm sure he coulda done something about and didn't.
Once again, blame the everbody else for the looting and lawlessness but the fucking people doing the looting and other criminal acts. Here we are JUSTIFYING criminal acts. Maybe if he fixed the drug problem in his city prior to this unfortunate disaster, maybe he wouldn't have junkies walkin' aroung tryin' to fix "their jones". BTW, I don't buy the statement that these are just junkies looking for dope as a rational explanation for all of the crime. We've seen women, children, and just about anybody else who coudl carry anything looting, only to find they had no house to put all of their "new" gifts in. Now, after all of the levees broke and the houses are gone, now they're "surviving"....(SCREAMMMMMM)
The irony here is that WE sit here and yell at eachother while these ghetto people just sit back (cause they apparently have no choice), and wait to be "rescued and get their handouts. WE care about these people's lives more than they do. If they really hated the ghetto, they'd get out, right? They choose to stay there and take generation after generation of handouts from the very government who provides their sustinence and then loser, finger pointers have the gall to cry racism. (ARGHHHHHHH)
He says GOD is looking down. If God is looking down, he can look right through this mayor and see that he is (was)the leader of one the most corrupt police forces and local governments in the US, who did NOTHING to prevent this. He can talk all he wants about "I told them, bla, bla,bla,"...take some responsibility here. Although, personally, I think people should be accuntable for themselves....Hmmm, let us see, A catoagory 5 hurricane is coming right at us, it's picking up steam as it crosses the gulf, we live 20 feet below sea level, our levees that according to out mayor are inadequatetly built, we've got 3 days notice of this monster coming our way that IS SURE TO HIT US....hmm....what to do?
I couuld go on for days about this utter bullshit you people are spewin', but I'm losing interest because it's obvious I'm not dealing with rational people.
Since you all are feelin' like Abe Linclon and all, book a flight...oh wait, they have no airport, book a boat and head on down to save your opressed black brothere because apparently our government doesn't care.
edit: awesome pics of the buses underwater, I can't wait 'til the media shows hime these pics after his little tirade. I'd love to interview this guy and ask him some REAL questions.
[ September 04, 2005, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: RixSikCobra ]
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2004 Terminator
Torch Red Vert
Built,Ported,Cammed,Juiced
Posts: 2120 | From: Pleasanton | Registered: Nov 2004
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94gt
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Member # 3060
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posted
Shamalma RixSikCobra ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Very well put man
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Posts: 5777 | From: Beavercreek, OH | Registered: Jul 2003
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migs66/92
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Member # 4811
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posted
RikSixCobra I couldnt agree more with ya man
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Ill keep my guns and my money, you can have the change
Posts: 343 | From: lodi ,cal | Registered: Aug 2004
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SFvert
Drama kids have no place here
Member # 3965
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by iron281:
Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
146 buses at this facility, on Canal Street, which is less than a mile from the Superdome.
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
255 more buses at the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool.
By rough count, well over 20,000 people could have been evacced in one run out of the city.
But instead, all these buses now sit in 6 feet of water, wasted, useless, and leaking tons of diesel fuel.
What say ye Mr. Mayor? Mr. Jesse Jackson? Anyone?
i will admit that is an awesome find, iron,, send that to msnbc, cnn and fox... and I dont have any response to that,, im really speechless on this one,,all I can say is that i hate politics
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R.I.P. 89 LX Sold the 90 Vert,
I bring the Amber Lamps!!!
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Posts: 3706 | From: the city by the bay | Registered: Jan 2004
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RixSikCobra
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Member # 5058
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by sf89lx:
quote:
Originally posted by iron281:
Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
146 buses at this facility, on Canal Street, which is less than a mile from the Superdome.
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
255 more buses at the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool.
By rough count, well over 20,000 people could have been evacced in one run out of the city.
But instead, all these buses now sit in 6 feet of water, wasted, useless, and leaking tons of diesel fuel.
What say ye Mr. Mayor? Mr. Jesse Jackson? Anyone?
i will admit that is an awesome find, iron,, send that to msnbc, cnn and fox... and I dont have any response to that,, im really speechless on this one,,all I can say is that i hate politics
Finally, a voice of reason amongst the hating population . The answer you're looking for is that there is no explanation. The Mayor fucked up and grossly underestimated the severity of this storm or didn't feel it was required to remove all of these people, not sure which one. Either way, he had a chance to minimize the loss of life and didn't. Now, he's sitting here pointing fingers to deflect critisism. The local government is the first thing citizens look to for help in a situation like this. Either he did nothing or couldn't do anything. I think a little of both. He did the exact OPPOSITE of what Mayor Guilianni did in NY after 9/11. Read my post before this one again and it'll explain more.
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2004 Terminator
Torch Red Vert
Built,Ported,Cammed,Juiced
Posts: 2120 | From: Pleasanton | Registered: Nov 2004
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Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
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posted
Yeah that Mayor for New Orleans didn't do anything to help and now hes trying to point the fingers of guilt away from him. He just needs to shut up now, his city is destroyed and shouldn't be rebuilt. Half his citizens have been talking about not going back to New Orleans anyway.
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Posts: 17580 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eddie510-
CAFords OG
Member # 2354
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
Yeah that Mayor for New Orleans didn't do anything to help and now hes trying to point the fingers of guilt away from him. He just needs to shut up now, his city is destroyed and shouldn't be rebuilt. Half his citizens have been talking about not going back to New Orleans anyway.
amen to that why would you want to go back
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Posts: 6557 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Avengeance
¯
Member # 5163
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by iron281:
Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00
'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
146 buses at this facility, on Canal Street, which is less than a mile from the Superdome.
[IMG]*lots of busses*[/IMG]
Mr. Mayor, why weren't these buses used to evacuate people ahead of the storm?
255 more buses at the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool.
[IMG]*even more busses*[/IMG]
By rough count, well over 20,000 people could have been evacced in one run out of the city.
But instead, all these buses now sit in 6 feet of water, wasted, useless, and leaking tons of diesel fuel.
What say ye Mr. Mayor? Mr. Jesse Jackson? Anyone?
A-fuckin-MEN.
N.O. Police/Fire/Rescue/Mayor could have saved THOUSANDS of lives had they used their heads. Now instead we have a Mayor pointing fingers and N.O. Police abandoning their positions, throwing their hands in the air.
Theres a reason why N.O. has/had one of the most corrupt PDs in the country.
Posts: 323 | From: NorCal | Registered: Dec 2004
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SFvert
Drama kids have no place here
Member # 3965
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posted
jUST WATCH this video guys...
http://www.michaelmoore.com/_images/splash/aaron_broussard.mov
[ September 08, 2005, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: sf89lx ]
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R.I.P. 89 LX Sold the 90 Vert,
I bring the Amber Lamps!!!
[IMG]http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/53/Epicbeardmanwin.jpg[/IMG]
Posts: 3706 | From: the city by the bay | Registered: Jan 2004
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