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Author
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Topic: Long tubes vs. Shorties
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Ryan_LX
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Member # 7089
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posted
 
 
What are your guys' thoughts, do you think its worth switching from shorties to long tubes? Ive read up on the two and both have advantages over each other. But I would like a personal opinion from someone who has had both.
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Jesus is king!
Posts: 1718 | From: no where | Registered: Sep 2006
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2BlueGeeTees
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Member # 4702
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posted
If u worried about smog stick with shorties. If not long tubes all day as far as sound. Do you need them for your particular setup is another question
Posts: 2316 | From: Vacaville | Registered: Jul 2004
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707clone
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Member # 10342
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posted
my folks had a certain set of longtubes he had 2 damn near cut everytime he had 2 mess round wit his starter,so he sed the hell wit em an weny with some bbk shorties!! anybody kno what brand those lt's where so he can stay away from them!! oh yeah and his starter wire melted on to the lt"s so thats another con!
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Maybe I should get drunk off my HATERADE elsewhere?
I was slow to take the hint, so I'm taking a break from CAFords for the rest of the month. Now excuse me while I enjoy some cereal. Mmmmm Mmmmm good. Who else wants to join me?
Lil Ric!
R.I.P CHARLIE HUSTLE!
91gt p heads,b cam,3:55s,exhaust
89 coupe just startin on him
Posts: 2614 | From: v a dubble | Registered: Sep 2010
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Captain Obvious
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Member # 7842
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posted
I had BBK 1 5/8" LT's on my 91 mustang for years without any problems. never had any clearance problems with my LT's or any starter heat soak or the melting of wires (if you melt wires on your LT's, thats your fault for not tieing things out of the way.
if your going with long tubes the only advice is, stay away from those shit brands like mac, flowtech and summit, they may be cheaper in price but they fit and function like shit.
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It's NOT illegal. It's just frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.
Posts: 1976 | Registered: Aug 2007
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SAV650HAB
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Member # 10324
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posted
i had bbk shorties with a 2 catted "h" pipe and switched it up to bbk long tubes with the bbk "X" pipe no cats and it made a world of difference performance and sound wise....
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SAVAGE HABITS 'CAR CLUB' VP 650/510/707/209
NOR-CAL KINGZ....... YAH 2 CHAINZ!!!!!!
"WE OUT HERE" 7th ST....STEP IT UP A NOTCH
88 coupe FTW!
Posts: 5091 | From: SHOREVIEW E.S SAN MATEO | Registered: Sep 2010
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2BlueGeeTees
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Member # 4702
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posted
I ran bbk 1 3/4 LTs with no issues with the starter. I will say this, hi torque mini starters are much easier to maneuver thru the LTs. In any case, have you determined if the setup will benefit enough from LTs to make it worth the time and money.
Posts: 2316 | From: Vacaville | Registered: Jul 2004
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
This is a long time sticking point for me. I personally HATE long tube headers for street cars. That said, allow me to show the benefits and compromises of both. This comparison assumes the same diameter header tube for both kits.
Shorties:
This applies to short tube unequal length. The equal length shorties should be avoided at all cost.
1) Pass smog - assuming this is important.
2) Easily to access starter and clutch. Only important when these components go out.
3) proven performance upgrade, provided you buy quality (FMS)
4) Most importantly. The ECU is set up to run them from the factory. This means the temperature of the o2 as well as the pulse signal is recognised by the stock computer. VERY IMPORTANT!!!
Long Tubes:
1) Does not pass smog - assuming this is important.
2) Not easy to access starter and clutch. Only important when these components go out.
3)*** Require a tune to function properly
3a) With a tune will match the max hp of unequal length short tube headers but will make better midrange torque and horsepower.
4) rubbing and bottoming out seem to be the order of the day with long tube headers. To keep this from happening, dont go cheap. BBK has good fitment.
Hope that helps
[ January 14, 2011, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: copcar ]
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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89 306
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Member # 9042
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posted
Y do u say equal lenghts should be avoided at all costs??
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:
This is a long time sticking point for me. I personally HATE long tube headers for street cars. That said, allow me to show the benefits and compromises of both. This comparison assumes the same diameter header tube for both kits.
Shorties:
This applies to short tube unequal length. The equal length shorties should be avoided at all cost.
1) Pass smog - assuming this is important.
2) Easily to access starter and clutch. Only important when these components go out.
3) proven performance upgrade, provided you buy quality (FMS)
4) Most importantly. The ECU is set up to run them from the factory. This means the temperature of the o2 as well as the pulse signal is recognised by the stock computer. VERY IMPORTANT!!!
Long Tubes:
1) Does not pass smog - assuming this is important.
2) Not easy to access starter and clutch. Only important when these components go out.
3)*** Require a tune to function properly
3a) With a tune will match the max hp of unequal length short tube headers but will make better midrange torque and horsepower.
4) rubbing and bottoming out seem to be the order of the day with long tube headers. To keep this from happening, dont go cheap. BBK has good fitment.
Hope that helps
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02 mustang gt...mods soon to come!
89 lx: 306. edelbrock. heads..ported gt 40 manifolds..and all that other good stuff.
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Posts: 1268 | From: richmond | Registered: Mar 2009
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
Issues issues issues. First of all they make plug routing and installation a living hell. They are a bitch to install themselves and they make no more power, if anything less than unequal length shorties. Think about it. ehxaust flow path needs to be as straight as possible not tied into knots in a tight area.
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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91Trunkster
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Member # 6598
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posted
All the cool people have long tubes...
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Yellow94GT never touched anyone's sig or banned anyone, so I'm going to quit spreading that rumor. It's not like I have any proof anyways. All yellow94gt and other mods have done is volunteer their time to help other people buy/sell parts, learn how to make their cars go faster and meet fellow enthusiasts. I'm a hater, but it's hard to hate on these facts. I have saved hunrdeds, maybe thousands of dollars here buying and selling parts over the years alone, but I don't care, this website owes me damnit, and I'll piss on it as much as I want. Us haters gonna hate. Why contribute to something when you can take for free?
I act like I'm@Age15
I make friends on the internet that are@Age18
I was picked on in my youth so I became a bully@Age24
My mouth started to run 24/7 on the internet, but my car never at the track@Age26
First pubic hair@Age30
Troll@Age31
My internet friends and I ALL just got the boot for good!@Age31
Yes, you read it right, 31 and just as childish as my fresh out of highschool internet friends@31
Oh yeah, this isn't my website, so no one has to ask for my permission to change my sig. Hell, not like I pay the CAFORDS bill, so why should they need my permission to put what they want on their site? We're all guests here. Maybe some of us should start acting like guests or leave?
(510)375-1589
Posts: 1648 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Ryan_LX
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Member # 7089
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posted
Thanks for all the info and feedback, honestly I dont think my setup would gain much from. It really comes down to the fact that I'm bored and want to switch some thins up.
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Jesus is king!
Posts: 1718 | From: no where | Registered: Sep 2006
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SantaClara_Cobra
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Member # 9488
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posted
How will they run with out a tune
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18 Denali diesel
91 🦊
Posts: 1399 | From: San Jose | Registered: Sep 2009
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Camara90
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Member # 134
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posted
I have ran plenty of longtubes without a tune, you could see some low RPM issues like at idle because the 02's are not getting enough heat. After 2800 rpm's the O2's are ignored, and you rely strictly on the ECU though. So no issues with Longtubes and WOT.
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Camara90:
I have ran plenty of longtubes without a tune, you could see some low RPM issues like at idle because the 02's are not getting enough heat. After 2800 rpm's the O2's are ignored, and you rely strictly on the ECU though. So no issues with Longtubes and WOT.
No. not exactly. The ecu is in open loop until the o2's warm up. After that it will stay in closed loop until the ecu detects WOT. During its time in closed loop the computer will wright and rewright its adaptive strategy for WOT operation. So yes, you are still monitering and relying on the imput from the o2's regardless of RPM until WOT is read by the ecu.
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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Camara90
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Member # 134
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posted
There is definitely conflicting information out there. If you speak to Rick at AFM he states that the O2's do not read anything after 2800 rpm on our cars. There is also other information that claims different. Here is a good read that I had seen before that states otherwise. http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/EECIVInnerWorkings/
from this link.
Adaptive Control There is much confusion about how Adaptive Control works especially at WOT. Adaptive control, according to Mike Wesley and Charles Probst, is always functional – at WOT and anything less than WOT. The difference is that in open loop and at less than WOT, this feature monitors O2 sensors and writes correction trim factors to KAM, which are applied to the base table value for future calculations. This is accomplished by varying injector pulse width. The rate at which Adaptive Control writes these correction factors to KAM is slow enough to filter out short duration upsets in the mixture. Short-term closed loop corrections are written to Long-Term Adaptive Strategy KAM if they are repeatedly seen out-of-spec by the O2 sensors . At WOT the Adaptive Control still functions but it does not update (or write) correction factors to KAM for application to the base tables – it defaults to the already stored trim values, if any have been written, for the load and engine temperature experienced in the WOT load range.
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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