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Author
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Topic: piston question
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jessdawg5.0
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Member # 12815
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posted
 
 
Anyone no the right pistons to buy to run some elderbrock 6025 heads or will stock 302 pistons will work thanks ca fords
Posts: 64 | From: el sobrante ca | Registered: Apr 2013
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warhorse58gt
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Member # 7702
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posted
Talk to the machine shop that is going to rebuild your motor. They will get you the right piston for your app.
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WOLFPACK RACING
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
83gt 354ci sbf 9.40 @ 143
77 cobra 2 171ci 97hp of pure fury!
Posts: 4200 | From: 209 | Registered: Jun 2007
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jessdawg5.0
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Member # 12815
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I am attempting to do it myself cuzz i cant afford a Machine shop lol
Posts: 64 | From: el sobrante ca | Registered: Apr 2013
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
Its a little more complicated than just "will these heads work with my pistons"... theres more to it than that, things like cam lift, valve size and pushrod lengths are all factors that need to be considered.
The best way for DIY builder to check piston to valve clearance is with some clay, google it im sure there are dozens of write-ups on it. basically you will want to mount the heads to the shortblck (with cam in) and hand crank the motor to see if the valves penetrate the clay and make contant with the piston. If the valves do contact the piston then you will need to get either some new pistons or have the ones u have cut for valve reliefs.
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
for stock bottom end cars, I usually wont run a cam with more than 512* lift.. basically nothing larger than an e-cam. and NO 2.02 valves for stock bottom end either.. not saying you cant run a larger cam or larger valved heads, just saying you will run into alot less problems down the line.
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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Lift is one part of the equation. Duration is the other along with actual valve events. I have ran .565 lift on a 2.02 valve with plenty of ptv even radially. Clay is a great method especially for verifying radial clearance....but again only part of the equation you can't just see that it doesn't break through the clay but you need to measure your results. I like more clearance on the exhaust valve. Typically .100 on exhaust and .080 on intake. Also use converted solid lifters is best
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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jessdawg5.0
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Member # 12815
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Dang sounds a little more complicated than i thought i guess i got my hands full..my ptoblem is i dont know where to start all i have is bare block i have a e cam and a stock crank to put in it and not lot of money thanks for all the advice everyone i really appriciate it
Posts: 64 | From: el sobrante ca | Registered: Apr 2013
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NK2186
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Member # 12319
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I am running an E303 cam with a stock 95 rotating assembly and stock 95 E7 heads with 1.6RR. No problems there with clearance. You can also have stock pistons fly cut to accept larger valves.
If you are just looking to have a regular running motor get some stock hyper pistons and stock rods.
If you are looking for some balls power... well then you need to factor in what you are trying to achieve and start thinking compression ratio, PTV...
Posts: 400 | From: Haystack | Registered: Aug 2012
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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I flycut pistons.
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
What size chamber on the 6025's and size valves do the have?
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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Regardless of what you read please always check piston to valve clearance. It only takes a few minutes and there is too many variances.
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
Regardless of what you read please always check piston to valve clearance. It only takes a few minutes and there is too many variances.
+1 Clay & a Depth gauge
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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triple b
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Member # 8763
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Figure out the cam u want install put heads on with gasket with clay turn motor over take heads off take clay measure.....
Posts: 1730 | From: sacramento ca | Registered: Nov 2008
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Mr.10psi
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Member # 11062
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PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE. Sorry just had to vent out, tired of hearing this kind of crap. Its a myth that needs to burn. Their are guys running over 600 lift on stock pistons that dont have any problems hmmmmmm? Lets see who knows their shit here, lets have some fun. Which combo will clear. First combo is 200/200 @ .050 with 680 lift or second combo 260/260 @ .050 with 480 lift. The answer is right in front of your eyes. OP Just use modeling clay and you will get your answer.
[ 2013-05-18, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: Mr.10psi ]
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02 white saleen(sold) 347 stroker in the works
Posts: 1337 | From: 530 | Registered: Jul 2011
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE. Sorry just had to vent out, tired of hearing this kind of crap. Its a myth that needs to burn. Their are guys running over 600 lift on stock pistons that dont have any problems hmmmmmm? Lets see who knows their shit here, lets have some fun. Which combo will clear. First combo is 200/200 @ .050 with 680 lift or second combo 260/260 @ .050 with 480 lift. The answer is right in front of your eyes. OP Just use modeling clay and you will get your answer.
What are actual events? It all depends bro....duration and lift are one thing but things like intake closing is another. Have you ever degreed a cam in?
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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triple b
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Member # 8763
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Yeah bro install a cam backwards and have all the lift you want when the piston is at the bottom of the bore^^^^lol
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1988 4cyl conv 306 HCI "sasha"
2004 tahoe
Sold- 87 GT, 72 chevelle, 63 biscane, 82 monte carlo, 73 nova, 88 silverado,
Posts: 1730 | From: sacramento ca | Registered: Nov 2008
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by triple b:
Yeah bro install a cam backwards and have all the lift you want when the piston is at the bottom of the bore^^^^lol
Lmao
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE.
Since when?
both max lift and duration are major factors for cam selection, heads and pistons alike and for determining PTV.
Ur trippin bruh
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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wilit
Mustang Messiah
Member # 3367
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 5.SL0W:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE.
Since when?
both max lift and duration are major factors for cam selection, heads and pistons alike and for determining PTV.
Ur trippin bruh
Duration only tells you how long the valve stays open. It doesn't tell you shit about when it opens and closes. That's what Dan is talking about. Those opening and closing events are more critical than duration or max lift. You could have a cam with .400" lift, but if it opens too early or closes too late, you're still fucked.
[ 2013-05-18, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: wilit ]
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"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 4793 | From: 37.78514° North 122.40100° West | Registered: Oct 2003
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coupedup
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Member # 9987
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by 5.SL0W:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE.
Since when?
both max lift and duration are major factors for cam selection, heads and pistons alike and for determining PTV.
Ur trippin bruh
Duration only tells you how long the valve stays open. It doesn't tell you shit about when it opens and closes. That's what Dan is talking about. Those opening and closing events are more critical than duration or max lift. You could have a cam with .400" lift, but if it opens too early or closes too late, you're still fucked.
but thats where degreeing the cam comes into play right?
Posts: 4406 | From: Ca | Registered: May 2010
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triple b
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Member # 8763
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posted
Setting a can advanced or retarted is beyond some people's comprehension.....so generally speaking to check your PTV Clarence should always be done. Theoretically you could put a .700 lift cam in a stock block just advance or retard that cam so it does not hit. It will run like shit but who care "I hot a .700 lift cam" faster than you lol
Posts: 1730 | From: sacramento ca | Registered: Nov 2008
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warhorse58gt
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Member # 7702
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posted
Lets be honest. The op doesn't have the knowledge to ever worry about opening and closing events, or how to degree a cam. He needs to save up some money and take it to a machine shop, Dan, who ever to build it for him. He isn't going to have the knowledge to assemble it correctly. Most of us posting to help him know How to correctly check pvc. So going into great detail isn't needed.
Op no disrespect meant. But if you don't know the basics, it's going to be a cluster fuck when you start worrying about filing piston rings, honing, etc. etc. Save up a few more bux and have someone build it for you. I would buy some after market forged kit for about $1,200. Take it to some good machine shop to get all the work done. Should be about $2,000- 2,200 total. Imho.. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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WOLFPACK RACING
With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.
83gt 354ci sbf 9.40 @ 143
77 cobra 2 171ci 97hp of pure fury!
Posts: 4200 | From: 209 | Registered: Jun 2007
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
I think it is/was a dead issue when I told the Op dont trip I can flycut
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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Mr.10psi
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Member # 11062
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE. Sorry just had to vent out, tired of hearing this kind of crap. Its a myth that needs to burn. Their are guys running over 600 lift on stock pistons that dont have any problems hmmmmmm? Lets see who knows their shit here, lets have some fun. Which combo will clear. First combo is 200/200 @ .050 with 680 lift or second combo 260/260 @ .050 with 480 lift. The answer is right in front of your eyes. OP Just use modeling clay and you will get your answer.
What are actual events? It all depends bro....duration and lift are one thing but things like intake closing is another. Have you ever degreed a cam in?
The valves events for the ivo, ivc, evo,evc i will not discuss. Gonna be way to long of a thread. I wont get into that. Now what i will say is that overlap is where its at. For the ones who dont know what overlap is, its when the intake and exhaust valves are open. At the end of the exhaust stroke and beginning of the intake stroke. The reason why i threw out duration at a .050 is becuz overlap is derived from it. That how it works. Yes dan i have degreed my cam in. I used the dot to dot method and called it straight up haha jp. Now seriously in all honesty i use the events off the lobe at a .050 and look at the degree wheel and adjust yada yada yada etc. You get the point as im sure you degree them in like you should.Nice talking to ya.
[ 2013-05-19, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: Mr.10psi ]
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02 white saleen(sold) 347 stroker in the works
Posts: 1337 | From: 530 | Registered: Jul 2011
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Mr.10psi
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Member # 11062
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 5.SL0W:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.10psi:
PEAK LIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE.
Since when?
both max lift and duration are major factors for cam selection, heads and pistons alike and for determining PTV.
Ur trippin bruh
So i guess me and ed curtis are both wrong considering he grinds cams with over 600 lift on stock pistons. Maybe ed needs to stop grinding cams and let you do it for him since your the expert here.Do you think he was worried about the lift considering he grinded on a 600 plus lift haha. Do you even understand where the piston is at during lobe lift. What its doing?EXPLAIN and ill shut up. Good luck.
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02 white saleen(sold) 347 stroker in the works
Posts: 1337 | From: 530 | Registered: Jul 2011
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