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» Northern California Ford Owners     » Automotive   » Tech Talk   » Dart 347 Build (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Dart 347 Build
95331StrimVert
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Member # 6250

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My new short block is coming from Keith Craft. The last 331 came from him. It didn’t last past 4 years. We all know production blocks can’t handle the 470+rwhp for long.

So who has a cam for me? And is anyone interested in my old Scat, 331 rotating assembly with blower ready dished JE pistons and my e-cam? Still good stuff:-)

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95331StrimVert

Posts: 398 | From: Martinez ca | Registered: Nov 2005  |  :
2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951

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my 331 list of parts is not to impresive
scat 4340 stroker kit stock block stud girdle. [Eek!]
XE274 cam set as ground, GT40 X heads I ported,Trickflow street heat intake port matched 3/8 spacer. 65 mm TB and egr plate. Mac Equal length shorties. V2- SQ trim 2.95 pulley snow boost cooler. This car is a true daily driver rain or shine. BTW 95331STrimvert 4 years out of a stock block blown setup is pretty impresive

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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded

Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002  |  :
95331StrimVert
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Member # 6250

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Thanks and I do agree. And, to be honest I’m surprised it lasted that long with me. I never gave it a brake... Having great street power is very addictive... Have you ever thought about your snow system and what could happen if you loose and injector at WOT?

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95331StrimVert

Posts: 398 | From: Martinez ca | Registered: Nov 2005  |  :
2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951

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I have thought about it but I test it all the time to make sure it is working. When ever I really stand on it I use 100 octane fuel anyhow. For normal street driving I always keep the timming retard set to be safe.

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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded

Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002  |  :
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60

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quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
BTW we have done back to back(weekends not races so there could be other factors weather cond were very close) drag strip runs with a carwith 317 stroker with a S-trim AFR185 heads systemmax intake XE 274 cam. The cam was retarded at first then set straight up(dot to dot, don't need that argument again LOL)there actualy wasn't a difference in perfomance. according to the clocks.

How was drivability with the camshaft in either position? Any noticable difference there?

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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning

(916)715-7569

Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000  |  :
AaronC
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Member # 86

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2stangs I think you know you'd need more time than 4-5 runs in consecutive weekends to show true baseline runs vs. other. Shift points would need to be altered and if it's under the factory rev limiter then yeah, it probably won't run any faster because it'd want to shift at 6500 with boost in the retard position. Would your car or his make more power with a bigger cam? I'd like to see these dyno sheets you posted. I don't know why you think it'll cost you power. Why would you retard it NA and not blown? It seems you still have your cam positioning out of whack too. straight up is not dot to dot [Razz]

[ January 20, 2006, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: AaronC ]

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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers

12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97

Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000  |  :
2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951

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LOL I thought I changed it just for you guy's in one post I said as ground dot ot dot oops. on the cam degree change it wasn't my car so as far as the shift points and reving it was kind of limited to what he was willing to try. I will find out about the driveability for you. the reason I might try retarding it N/A is because I always change the cam timming just to find out if it helps. When I was racing my 69 I tried all different positions and what I have really found out is if you have a correct cam for your aplication to begin with the amount you gain from retarding or advancing your cam 4 degrees from were it is ground will give you very small if even noticeable improvments. Plus with a centrifical supercharger you are going to raise your rpm range anyhow. Wht sacrafice any low end power. I have one dyno sheet in my pic profile for a 347 N/A comp cam (I think it was the XE282)that lost tourqe and HP buy going from 4 degrees advance to straight up. It just isn't that good of a scan. If I was building my 331 supercharged engine for Max HP instead of a daily driven car that had to pass smog. I wouldn't be running most my combo LOL. I am building a 410 supercharged combo(for my 69) that I have no restrictions except cash so that will be my high HP set up.

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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded

Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002  |  :
need-a-cage
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I have been racing my stock shortblock 302 for 10 years now, 4 of which were with 8psi of boost running 12.0 @ 115mph and 1 of which was with 10psi of boost running mid 11's at close to 120mph but it kept slowing down as the motor got tired. The block seems to have held up, but my rings must be gone. I have tons of crankcase pressure. Oil is leaking from everywhere because of all the pressure. I added breathers for the last couple seasons of drag racing and had to install catch cans to collect the oil coming from the breathers. I raced it almost every Wednesday since 1995, when I bought the car. However, I don't think that I want to risk using a stock block if I go to a 331. It needs to last a loooooong time. IF my pregnant wife lets me spend all this money now, I will not get any more for the car fund until the kids are out of college!

Craig

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93 LX Hatch, Dart Big Bore 347, Edelbrock 6037's, Cobra intake, Tremec, S-trim, 60# injectors, Tweecer RT
10.84 @ 128.5mph

Posts: 606 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Mar 2005  |  :
AaronC
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Member # 86

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quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
LOL I thought I changed it just for you guy's in one post I said as ground dot ot dot oops. on the cam degree change it wasn't my car so as far as the shift points and reving it was kind of limited to what he was willing to try. I will find out about the driveability for you. the reason I might try retarding it N/A is because I always change the cam timming just to find out if it helps. When I was racing my 69 I tried all different positions and what I have really found out is if you have a correct cam for your aplication to begin with the amount you gain from retarding or advancing your cam 4 degrees from were it is ground will give you very small if even noticeable improvments. Plus with a centrifical supercharger you are going to raise your rpm range anyhow. Wht sacrafice any low end power. I have one dyno sheet in my pic profile for a 347 N/A comp cam (I think it was the XE282)that lost tourqe and HP buy going from 4 degrees advance to straight up. It just isn't that good of a scan. If I was building my 331 supercharged engine for Max HP instead of a daily driven car that had to pass smog. I wouldn't be running most my combo LOL. I am building a 410 supercharged combo(for my 69) that I have no restrictions except cash so that will be my high HP set up.

So we really don't know much about the before and after results of the comparison because a lot of details are left out. I know 93pony rolled a TFS #1 cam back 4 degrees on an S trim car and it picked up quite a bit. I agree if you have the right cam you won't gain much by altering the ICL but when you look at the sticks used in the "Hot" all motor setups then custom is the only way to go because you can't buy what you need from an off shelfer. Boost is a little different because it band aids a lot of restrictions an NA setup sees. I don't see low end loss an issue either. If it's not there NA then why with a centrifugal blower? It will rev higher (simulating a bigger cam from later intake closing) therefore make more power where the blower is moving the most air. You shift under the factory rev limiter if I remember so it probably will not help you unless you could shift at 6500. Generally I try to recommend the smallest cam to reach a certain rpm/power level. Take the advance out which will make it act bigger but provide better driveability because of less duration than the bigger cam that is advanced.

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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers

12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97

Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000  |  :
2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951

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I do know alot about changing the cam timming. The results came from him driving the car the same way he has been driving it with the same tune and blower set up the car has had for years. We didn't change the rest of the stuff on purpose to see the difference. The question I am not sure about is his drivability which I am sure is fine but I didn't want to post any miss info and I am trying to get a hold of him to find out. I just posted that because 93Pony mentioned he thought advancing the XE274 would bring out more low and mid range which in our case didn't show up. Every set up is different.

I like the way you always refer to blowers as bandaid's LOL they are power adders. I like the fact I can cruise my car and use it as a daily driver run smaller cams and lower compression have very good street manners have AC ,powersteering then go run 128 in the 1/4 you get the best of both worlds. N/A setups are cool but there is a reason all the top mustang clases are won buy cars with power adders they work.

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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded

Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002  |  :
need-a-cage
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Member # 5415

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I don't think that you will find a NA motor that can run 128mph in the 1/4 and pass smog.

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93 LX Hatch, Dart Big Bore 347, Edelbrock 6037's, Cobra intake, Tremec, S-trim, 60# injectors, Tweecer RT
10.84 @ 128.5mph

Posts: 606 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Mar 2005  |  :
AaronC
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Member # 86

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quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:

I like the way you always refer to blowers as bandaid's LOL they are power adders. I like the fact I can cruise my car and use it as a daily driver run smaller cams and lower compression have very good street manners have AC ,powersteering then go run 128 in the 1/4 you get the best of both worlds. N/A setups are cool but there is a reason all the top mustang clases are won buy cars with power adders they work.

I refer to blowers as band aids because they overcome the intake restrictions an NA motor can't. You can get away with sub par parts because the blower is making the power not the motor. Your car runs hard but the hotter 347's run faster and still have A/C/power steering etc. Mayber they're not daily drivers because they're chosen not to be but I wouldn't have a problem driving my 342 daily. It's not nearly as radical as you'd think. As far as race classes go they're exactly that, race classes. You won't have power adder vs. NA cars in the same class. I'm not saying they don't work because they do. They do offer more driveability as 93Pony's turbo car literally drives like a bone stock 93 cobra. As far as smog goes, passing a sniffer and the visual are 2 different things. The guys with the hot NA stuff still get their smog taken care of [Wink]

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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers

12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97

Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000  |  :
2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951

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the hotter 347's hook better thats why they are faster. I don't plan on slicking up my 91 anytime in the future so I probably will never keep up with them. My 1.70 60 foots are not up to par LOL. and I did notice the amount of hot cars still with smogs be carefull I know a guy poped buy the BAR they took his vin number when he was at Sac and waited [Confused] that is why my old school mustang is getting my new motor set up not the 91.

[ January 21, 2006, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]

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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded

Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002  |  :


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