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Author
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Topic: hp limits on 255 pump
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
 
 
how much horsepower can a 255 intake pump handle on an NA motor
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Just to give you an idea...... 50 lbs injectors at 85% duty cycle require 215lph. With 20% of the fuel flowing back into the tank via the return line, you'll have 255 lph total flow needed.
So 50 lbs injectors at 85% duty cycle and a motor of a BSFC of 0.5 will support about 675 flywheel HP.
So I guess the answer to your question is 675 HP is the theoretical max given the numbers above for a 255lph pump.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
427w, afr 205's, efi spyder intake, 10.0:1 compression, big solid roller cam, 42# injector
i dont have a clue what pressure, im just curious if it will even be close to enough fuel just to run the motor for a while
eventually i will be gettin a cell and a much bigger pump
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
No need for a fuel cell or bigger pump. I'll do the math for 42 lbs injectors at ~40 psi later, but I can already make a good guess that you'll be fine as-is.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
power output was gestimated at 550 to the wheels at 6800rpm
i have to get a bigger pump eventually because i am going to run a 150 shot
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
No need for a fuel cell or bigger pump. I'll do the math for 42 lbs injectors at ~40 psi later, but I can already make a good guess that you'll be fine as-is.
Why no need for a fuel cell? Do you know what he plans on doing with the car(roadracing, street/strip, or drag racing ect..)?
Don't forget to use the "real world load" function on your calculator when you enter your formula. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
im getting a cell because i am more than likely gonna backhalf the car, i know that its way over kill but i want to run a very tall tire for looks not performance, plus i think havin a 32X14 tire will be fun on the street
and bounty hunter, u dont think that a 150 shot plus a 427 stroker would require more than a 255 intank pump ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE,
IMO your 427 stroker by itself will need more than a 255lph pump if you make ~550rwhp.
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
No need for a fuel cell or bigger pump. I'll do the math for 42 lbs injectors at ~40 psi later, but I can already make a good guess that you'll be fine as-is.
I forgot to add you need to account for RPM in your calculation also. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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BOUNTY HUNTER VERT
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Member # 2754
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:
im getting a cell because i am more than likely gonna backhalf the car, i know that its way over kill but i want to run a very tall tire for looks not performance, plus i think havin a 32X14 tire will be fun on the street
and bounty hunter, u dont think that a 150 shot plus a 427 stroker would require more than a 255 intank pump
Run a seperate fuel cell and pump for the nos i was giving you that info based on n/a a t rex and the 255 would be the safest bet for the engine and a holley black for the nos
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89 Saleen vert Bounty Hunter racing
http://www.corral.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1324&papass=&sort=1&size=medium&thecat=
Its all stock and slow wanna run.
Posts: 899 | From: ca | Registered: Apr 2003
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Jeff S- RPM isn't a factor in any of the equations to calculate fuel requirements. You must have mistaken this post with another.
66 AC Cobra of long_name- 550 rwhp? I've seen a 429ci 351w based motor with CNC ported Brodix track 1's make 475 rwhp with 42lbs injectors. I'll do the math for 550 rwhp...... but I have a feeling by the time you put this combo together, your mechanical engineering classes will get in the way of toys like this.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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7.3L White Whale
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Member # 1848
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posted
did u buy 7liter's engine (kevin aka 98svtcobra)?
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444 cubic inches and a 105mm turbo.
2001 gt.... sold
02 wrx... shits in the works
Posts: 493 | From: livermore | Registered: Sep 2002
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 7.3L White Whale:
did u buy 7liter's engine (kevin aka 98svtcobra)?
that is correct, its his "old" engine, old=300miles
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Jeff S- RPM isn't a factor in any of the equations to calculate fuel requirements. You must have mistaken this post with another.
66 AC Cobra of long_name- 550 rwhp? I've seen a 429ci 351w based motor with CNC ported Brodix track 1's make 475 rwhp with 42lbs injectors. I'll do the math for 550 rwhp...... but I have a feeling by the time you put this combo together, your mechanical engineering classes will get in the way of toys like this.
the injector might be my limiting factor right now, but the motor is capable of more
i have seen a 393w, 10.1:1, tea vic jr's (flow about+3cfm above mine across the board), smaller hydro cam, victor efi intake untouched except portmatched, make 518rwhp with a tko, on pump gas
ive got more cubes, bigger intake, bigger solid roller cam, and basically the same heads, so i dont think 550 is out of my range at all
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Wow, where did you see this combo dyno? Has this car made it to Sac raceway yet?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Jeff S- RPM isn't a factor in any of the equations to calculate fuel requirements. You must have mistaken this post with another.
Do you know anything about injector duty cycle? How about you look at this graph and then get back to me with any questions.
http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/dutycycle1.html
[ August 30, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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stoauto
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Member # 2803
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posted
550 RWHP i'm not doubting you at all man but damn ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posts: 1054 | Registered: May 2003
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Jeff S- This is getting too funny. You don't even know what the term "duty cycle" means in simple terms. They didn't cover it in the few quarters of junior college you attended before you dropped out. At any RPM you can have any injector duty cycle if you wish. They're not related in any way by definition.
Again I state: RPM has nothing to do with calculation fuel requirements. This is beyond obvious why. Please stick to custom cam posts where at least you can bring up RPM into the discussion, and talk about "area under the curve", yet another topic which you don't completely understand nor know how to calculate since they....yup, didn't cover in your few quarters of junior college education.
If you want a quick and dirty lesson on the techniques discussed above, please feel free to PM me, but lets not clutter bring ![[BS flag]](graemlins/bs_flag.gif) into this post.... just PM me.
[ August 30, 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
66 AC COBRA of long_name: 255 lph will provide enough fuel flow to support 550 rwhp on that motor. If it truely makes 550 rwhp, that'll be about 1.3 rwhp per cubic inch.... so far for a NA motor, Mike Camara holds the rwhp per cubic inch record with a tad over 1.2rwhp per cube. So after putting things in perspective..... crazy efficient NA motors like that tend to make more rwhp per same quantity of fuel. The BSFC goes down in other words. Maybe to 0.45 or so. Keeping BSFC at 0.5, and all the other variables the same as above, but using 42 lbs injectors at 40 psi, you'll be very safe to 500 rwhp. Keep those 42 lbs injectors, but calculate a drop the BSFC due to the motors super efficiency and you'll have plenty of fuel for 550 rwhp. Keep in mind that the injectors were never pushed past 85% duty cylce in these calculations. So like Bounty Hunter vert said: run what you have since it sounds fine, and if on the dyno you find out otherwise, upgrade the restricting part of your fuel system.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
RPM has nothing to do with fuel requirements??? LOL
Riiiight.
So an injectors pulse-width at 6000rpm can be as long as when the motor is running at 1000rpm. Riiiight.
Max pulse-width for ANY injector at 1000rpm can be 6 times what it can be at 6000rpm. I do think this plays a factor in selecting the correct fuel system. RPM directly affects max pulse-width of an injector. Choose too small of an injector & you will go lean at high RPM's where the injector is basically open 100% of the time, but still not keeping up with the demand for fuel. Sure...an easy way to band-aid this is to add fuel pressure, but then the demand for more pump increases.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
93PONY - If you have any surpressed displeasure with me for not being impressed with any of your combos, please don't take it out by starting arguements with me on every and all posts I reply to. Just PM me with your displeasure and get it out of your system that way instead of cluttering up this forum.
With that said, sure, you can have the injector pusle width be the same at 1K RPM and 6K RPM. Why can't it? The width of the pulse doesn't affect duty cycle, again by definition of the terms. Two signals with completely different duty cycles can have the same 'on pulse width'. The reasons why are very elementry and basic. I'm sure 66 AC Cobra has covered this topic and understands it.
I don't know what more to say.... I just ask that if you or Jeff S want to argue with me about this, please just PM me instead.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
I'm sure 66 AC Cobra has covered this topic and understands it.
if by this u mean that i dont know what i am reading in this post, u are mistaken, i have done some injector calculating with this motor and that is why i am sticking with the 42's, because 42's have a much better track record that 50's, and i like ford injectors, and ford doesnt make 50's, and if u did mean disrespect to me with the above comment u might have another person that doesnt like ya to much, u think u are god because ur in college, im in college, shaun, i dont know, but hes smart as fuck, and jeffs is makin 600rwhp on a 331, so he is slightly qualified too, and just because someone has a different view than u, doesnt mean they hate u, it means they have a differnt opinion
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Scroll up and read what I typed again.... I said I'm sure you understood what duty cycle is because this basic topic is covered in your second or third quarter physics class at your school, if not highschool.
Go ahead, scroll up, its clearly written up there.
[ August 30, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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