|
Author
|
Topic: d.s.s 396 last minute suggestions
|
theguywhoknows
¯
Member # 2148
|
posted
 
 
Mr. Paint Job, no offenses taken dude, you are right. I have a lot more knowledge than you. This is what I do for a living, among other things that I own as well... and you seem to know quite a bit too, BUT turbo's WERE most certainly tried in top fuel many years ago and they flat-out didn't keep up with the Roots type huffer's. If you are only 22, then you were probably still in diapers then and I was 19, with an 11 second (11.02 to be exact) TRUE stereet car that I drove to school everyday and raced on the weekends at Fremont at 1970's and 1980's technology. It was ALL engine, no supercharger, no computer, no EFI and street tires and on pump gas,
At the same time, I was also the fuel / magneto guy on a top fuel boat crew (the world's fastes blown fuel flat bottom at the time) that my best friend owned, so I was not only messing with my 11 second car (and other's that I built in my one car garage), I was on a world record holding top fuel team as well as a several of other's after that.
You have a long way to go before you have the knowledge and experience as I, BUT you are also well on your way, so don't take that as bragging or putting you down.
I've been around the block a few times and tend to take things to the next step as far as radical engines go. Smooth idles, computers and EFI does NOTHING for me. I like nasty idles, the smell of an over rich exhaust, (especially when it's on alcohol or nitro) carburetors and nostalgia, and that is the very reason I said that Missy's car is a VINTAGE car compared to yours. I mean, you basically have nothing more than a basic 408 and everything from a new Mustang swapped over to it. If I bought a new Cobra R engine and put it in a 65 Mustang, I certainly couldn't call it "vintage" anymore, nor would ANY vintage or nostalgia event even let me in the gate. That takes carbs, and "era" components, natural aspiration and usually even a given amount of cubic inches, depending on the sanction.
Also, on the turbo'd outlaw race cars. Those aren't Pro Mod cars guy's! Hello?? And they aren't NEAR as fast as Pro Mod door slammer's either! Yes, turbo's are OK for some applications but they are NOT the absolute best by any means and again, that is why you don't see any on pro mods, top fueler's, top alcoholer's and so on. Do you think none of us know whet we're doing and that you "kids" that have day job's doing other things know more than guy's like us? Come-on, get real and quit reading biased magazine articles. And whoever said dyno's don't go to 7,000HP needs to wake-up! Maybe YOU don't know about any dyno's capable of measuring that kind of power but let me tell you something, not only are there dyno's that test top fueler's, there are dyno's in this world that can read power levels WAY beyond that by ten or twenty times or more. They're used for testing giant ship engines, enormous diesel engines and so on with displacements that aren't measurd in cubic inches or liters... more like in cubic FEET! They work on the same princibles as any "friction" brake dyno, be it water, or mechanical brakes. They DO exist.
Posts: 22 | From: North Bay | Registered: Dec 2002
| :
|
|
JOSH
¯
Member # 979
|
posted
So you two have anything to say about the topic? If not open a new thred , you can call it "my dick is longer then yours" .
--------------------
65 fastback mustang
410w 11:1 c-4 592fwhp 560fwtq
Posts: 75 | From: santa rosa | Registered: Mar 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
You know Mr. "guywhoknows" there is a pro mod car with twin turbos on it. Reiger has one. I even saw it test in Vegas. And, no I didn't read it in a magazine I saw it when I was racing!
There is something to be said about nostalgia stuff but, when you actually take the time to learn new technology (not stuff that was made before YOU were born) you will find it vastly superior to anything that has a Carb. on it! Besides, all the "sportsman" braket racing crowd probably cannot afford this kind of technology anyway, nor do they need it for what they do! Thats probably why you don't like it! You should try it, it works wonders! And I think my car has a pretty good idle crackle!
And by the way, I dont think I am a kid anymore! Pushing 30
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
By the way, what boat crew were you on? If you were involed with boat stuff then you should know the Hutchisons. They were top dogs around then right?
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
theguywhoknows
¯
Member # 2148
|
posted
Yellow67... you are taking this the wrong way dude and getting an attitude over it. This isn't about my dick is longer than someone else's or what technology is better, and if you have "a" friend running Pro Mod with turbo's that is great, but the rest of them use roots blowers and NO, nada, zip top fueler's are running turbos, not even in unlimited classes such as all-out heads-up nostalgia and just so you know... turbos are NOT "new" technology compared to superchargers, so it has nothing to do with that.
As for the boat and your friend... I was best friends with Steve Black, who's dad owned "Explosion" # 465, when NDBA was around. Tom Black, the owner who was killed in a blown fuel hydro crash back in 94, also owned Percision Propellers, the company that made about 90% of all race and performance props for the serious boats. Dago, who owned "Down n Out" and Marine Engineering (a very famous drag boat builder, Al Bush who owneed "Crazy Horse" and many other's were running when we were. Now days, there is no such thing as "blown fuel flat bottoms" because of the danger they pose and NDBA has been replaced with NHBA.
As for me not liking late model technology... I never said that what so ever. I am just not "into" it. I like nostalgia, much the same way you might like Nascar or bracket racing... and I don't. You might like red heads and I like blondes... computers and EFI is just not my bag, I never said it wasn't any good or didn't work, in fact, I know I said the opposite and that is one of the reasons why I said that Mr. Paint Job's car would be miscomparing cars between his 408 and Missy's 408, besides the blower and why I didn't consider his car "vintage".
This is supposed to all be about fun guy's. Lose the attitudes and the shit talk.
Posts: 22 | From: North Bay | Registered: Dec 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
I am not getting an attitude. I have no reason to get an attitude. I am nothing when it comes to racing, just expressing my opinions and killing time at work!
As for Pro mod, Reiger is not my friend. Never met the guy! And there are a bunch of n20 pro mod cars also. Just one turbo though! For now! I just thin majority of people that race cars fear new technology and dont want to get into something that they no nothing about!
If I came across with an attitude I am sorry. Just like to be devils advocate!
I actually like everthing when it comes to drag racing! I dont care what it is as long as it is fast!
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
he doesn't bracket race, he runs heads up in real or true street in the psca, i can't remember.
i'm not getting attitude but i am offended by this comment "I mean, you basically have nothing more than a basic 408 and everything from a new Mustang swapped over to it." First i have a distributor so it's not a NEW mustang style efi. Second I don't remember accel ever putting one of their laptop programable computers in a fox body. the only thing from Ford under my hood is the block and the valve covers, and those are both from Ford Racing. Oh, I do have a stock 5.0l throttle linkage.
I never said they should run turbos in top fuel, i never said they should run turbos in pro mod. I said YOU should run two turbos. It's not a top fuel car, it's not a pro mod car, it's just a show car. If your answer was simply "because i dont want to" then i would accept that answer but saying turbos are too restrictive to make more power is not really something i'll buy. A guy I know named Mike Braun took an Eaton off a lightining and put on a turbo, it picked up 67 hp with only 10 psi compared to the 15 it was seeing with the Eaton.
btw, i would have beat your "street" car too. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Does anyone have a STREET car that is fast?
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
theguywhoknows
¯
Member # 2148
|
posted
sorry guy's, it just started sounding more and more like an arguement rather than just talk about stuff we like. This is supposed to be fun, not an arguement.
As for the comments about Mr' Paint's car, I was just "assuming" you had late model stuff under the hood is all. I mean, "most" EFI cars that have been converted use a Ford system rather than an after market system, so I just figured it was a basic 408 (being that it isn't a $25,000+ 408, and that it was a retro fit Ford system (being that it has a EFI). No reason to take offense.
To me, your 408 is "basic". I build basic one's too, such as what Missy and who knows how many other people have out there. I also build engines in the $45,000+ area and just finished a Winston Cup style all aluminum 427 small block for a guy in New York City that ended-up being a $33,000 engine, so on that basis, a pump gas, standard aluminum headed, basic parts inside 408 is "basic" to me. No reaon to take offense over it. I just meant it wasn't an alcohol burning, double throw-down muther fucker is all. You are too quick to jump the gun that someone is bashing you, when I'm not at all.
As for your buddy's truck that switched from an Eaton to a turbo, boost is boost and flow is flow. They are two entirely different things. What you said doesn't mean very much because its better to have 1,500 cfm at say, 5 psi of boost than having 600 cfm at say, 15psi of boost. I'm sure if you want to compare numbers, there are other reasons why the HP gain happened, such as inlet / outlet temperature, intake flow, fuel atomization, cavitation charataristics inside the air compressor or around the rotors / impellor, cfm capabilities, displacement size of the compressors, etc. There are too many variables to say one way or the other, not just that the turbo is better.
If turbo's make so much more free power than superchargers, then we are right back at square one, with top fueler's running Roots blowers at 200 psi rather than turbo's. The NET power gain is simply greater with what they have right now. It's that simple. You can argue with me until you're blue in the face and all I can say is go ask a top fuel engine builder... or someone on a top fuel team the next time you are out at the track and you'll get the same answer over and over again. This isn't my first day you know...
This is what I do for a living. I have been there, done that, WAY before you were even born and if "old technology" is what you think I'm about, then that's fine. I could care less because it doesn't matter to me. I have what I have and you have what you have and no matter what you think you have, there is always someone else with more money and the capability to build (or buy) faster cars...
I am happy with my exhibition car and our alcohol dragster I co-own and sponsor. There's no reason to get all huffy - puffy about anything. I never said your car was a piece of shit or anything or that you are just some punk kid that thinks he knows it all. In fact, I said the opposite and that your car sounded nice and that you seemed to know quite a bit, but don't try to compare what you know against what I know... I have a LOT more years (decades) of experience than you and about 700+ more engines under my belt than you, and don't go taking that as anything bad either... 'cause it certainly wasn't meant to be that way.
Posts: 22 | From: North Bay | Registered: Dec 2002
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
theguywhoknows - welcome to the site, your knowledgible input is appreciated. Don't let Mr. Paint Job get to you, he's an expert at getting people riled up on the internet.
ps- where were you guys when the "cyber turbo battle" was going on earlier in the week? ( http://www.cafords.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002319;p=2 )
[ December 07, 2002, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
It was the "everything from a new Mustang swapped over to it" comment i didn't like. I know it's a basic 408, that's what i keep trying to tell everyone. That is also why I don't understand you keep offering me to race one of your $45,000 408s and not missy's basic 408. Know what i mean? Mine is even more basic than hers. No rocker arm girdle, no solid cam, no lash, no nothing.
The turbo on the lightining wasn't intercooled so the air was even hotter. If that means anything to you.
Stop with the turbos on a top fuel car. we're not talking top fuel here, i'm talking about the motor in your show car. Is it set up to run in top fuel? I'm just talking about your average everyday 7 second race motor. Turbos work better, ESPECIALLY in small tire classes.
Do you ever go up to sears or sac? how often?
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
I think if you were to build a Turbo Top Fueler it would have to be a twin turbo or even a quad turbo. There is not one big enough turbo built yet to make the power! Now, what makes a fueler get its power? Isnt it the Nitro? Correct me if I am wrong but you would not have half the power a fueler has if it ran on even Alcohol, right?
So, I think that Fuel is the major problem, and this is why nobody has ever successfully done this. Nitro would eat everything in a conventional electric fuel injection system. And there's no way to efficiently run a turbo setup without EFI. So for now there stuck.
So, really there is no proof just theories. Technology has to catch up and maybe, just maybe somebody will do it. Turbo's have entered Pro mod. I'm sure that is just the first step!
I wish I could run Nitro! That would be cool!
By the way, I have a 67 mustang. I could race this Missy girl. Would that be fair?
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
No eric it wouldn't be fair... unless you took your bottle out of the trunk.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
JoeT
¯
Member # 298
|
posted
I'm liking what 'theguywhoknows' is saying. makes perfect sense.
anyway you can get my POS out of the 15's ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
--------------------
1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Paint Job:
No eric it wouldn't be fair... unless you took your bottle out of the trunk.
plus your F.A.S.T. set-up makes my DFI look VINTAGE.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
LOL, I'll take my bottle out of the trunk!
Mr. Paint, do I know you? Sorry if I do. Dont know screen names.
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by yellow67stang:
LOL, I'll take my bottle out of the trunk!
Mr. Paint, do I know you? Sorry if I do. Dont know screen names.
Eric
Not really. I used to be Chris_67_SC_408. I said hi to you at the last bakersfield psca event (when eliminations didn't start till like 5pm and you and jeff piazza went home early). You weren't running nitrous back then. I just said, hi nice car, see ya. that was about it.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by shade-tree:
I'm liking what 'theguywhoknows' is saying. makes perfect sense.
Me too. I'm surprised I haven't heard of his shop/work before... then agian we're in our own EFI world here. Regardless if injection... a long block is a long block
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Paint Job:
plus your F.A.S.T. set-up makes my DFI look VINTAGE.
Yup, DFI is considered the "carburetor" of the electronic fuel injection world. Can't get much more basic than DFI.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
try the commander 950 ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
yellow67stang
¯
Member # 903
|
posted
Mr. Paint, I remember you coming up to my car. That day was a mess and it was HOT!!! Had no chance of even getting to round 2 so, didnt want to wait until late that day to get one run off.
You guys dont like my ideas on a Nitro Turbo combo?.........LOL COME ON!!! When I get the money I am going to do it.
You gotta think out of the box to make new stuff up!
Peace
Eric
--------------------
I like cars.
Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002
| :
|
|
Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
|
posted
i like the idea, it might be easier with mechanical injection though.
That day was AWEFUL, we got down there at 7am and the racing didnt end up starting till like 5pm. I wanted to see your car run, piazza's too but i don't blame you for leaving.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
| :
|
|
Jeff S
¯
Member # 371
|
posted
ttt... This thread is pure comedy!
[ March 13, 2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: iknowmorethanyou ]
--------------------
'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
| :
|
|
Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by JOSH:
So you two have anything to say about the topic? If not open a new thred , you can call it "my dick is longer then yours" .
LOL!!! Thats funny as hell.
By the way when i was at the winter nationals this year they brought out a Top-Fuel TT Mazda funnycar and they tried racing it down the track and when the guy hit 2nd the entire rear slide sideways so he let off on it and put it into 3rd and then floored it again and went sideways so he gave up. I was impressed it still was in the 7 second range. So they are still trying turbos on top-fuel cars.
--------------------
./_ _ _ ___ __\
(]]]_ _ o _ _[[[)
|\_o_ __ __o_/|
|__|..........|__|
68 Fastback
84 CJ7
94 HMMWV
95 GT
03 F350
17 Fusion Hybrid
Posts: 17578 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
This thread is just another example of no matter how out-classed, out-smarted, out-experienced, out-knowleged you are on a topic, some guy the internet will STILL arguee with you.... of course only for the sake of arguement. Kind of sad when you think about it. Then again, some people don't deal with defeat too well.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
|
Email this post to someone!
Printer friendly view of this Ford topic
