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Author
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Topic: Horsepower figures for a 331
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
 
 
If I were building a "street" 331 I'd go for:
331 (duh)
10.5-11:1 compression
AFR-185s (what the hell)
Holley Intake (ported)
comp cam 282 HR
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I'd expect 400 rwhp, however, IMHO, I'd rather hit that figure with a 351, more room to grow.
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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cobraman_1994
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Member # 467
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posted
what about mine? with out a poweradder ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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86 GT
Posts: 4882 | From: eldorado hills | Registered: Sep 2001
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PunkINa5.SLOW:
[/qb]
I argree for smog but I dont like same lift on exhaust sas on the intake i like to see more lift/duration on the exhaust side on SB dorfs[/QB][/QUOTE]
It's really going to depend on the heads and induction setup and the whole combo that will determine what cam would be best. Lately I've been seeing several reversed split cams on the corral and Camara90 has one and so do I on my 306. His car runs like an animal for a street 347 since his upgrade to 185's and the custom cam. I got my 306 running last night and even with some tuning problems this thing is gonna be a RUNNER for a street 306 (112-115 mph NA in a drop top). My cam specs look like this 224/222 .555/.528 111 LSA and 274/272 at .006. Mike's are 232/228, .565/.538, 110 LSA 282/278 at .006. It's an interesting concept but our cam grinder says it's what makes these long runner efi motors run. He also likes a late intake closing point because of the long runners. On most aftermarket cams like the TFS #1 he strongly recommends that you retard it to a 115 Intake Centerline and put 1.7 rockers on the INTAKE ONLY. He says the hefty exhaust bias is not needed in most applications. So far I'd say this stuff is working pretty damn well. He's been accurate as to Mike's car and from what I can tell so far, mine too. They're also starting to do reverse split cams on LS1's with LOT's of success.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
quote:
Originally posted by PunkINa5.SLOW:
I argree for smog but I dont like same lift on exhaust sas on the intake i like to see more lift/duration on the exhaust side on SB dorfs[/QB]
It's really going to depend on the heads and induction setup and the whole combo that will determine what cam would be best. Lately I've been seeing several reversed split cams on the corral and Camara90 has one and so do I on my 306. His car runs like an animal for a street 347 since his upgrade to 185's and the custom cam. I got my 306 running last night and even with some tuning problems this thing is gonna be a RUNNER for a street 306 (112-115 mph NA in a drop top). My cam specs look like this 224/222 .555/.528 111 LSA and 274/272 at .006. Mike's are 232/228, .565/.538, 110 LSA 282/278 at .006. It's an interesting concept but our cam grinder says it's what makes these long runner efi motors run. He also likes a late intake closing point because of the long runners. On most aftermarket cams like the TFS #1 he strongly recommends that you retard it to a 115 Intake Centerline and put 1.7 rockers on the INTAKE ONLY. He says the hefty exhaust bias is not needed in most applications. So far I'd say this stuff is working pretty damn well. He's been accurate as to Mike's car and from what I can tell so far, mine too. They're also starting to do reverse split cams on LS1's with LOT's of success.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Well Aaron you cant argue with numbers but I think that alot of that has to do with the heads.
Those AFRs pretty much have a very good exhaust port as compared to most aftermarket heads.
You are right about the fact that it depends on the intake/heads and motor as to what cam will run harder.
I have to be honest tho, I am VERY surprised that the cams favoring the intake are running as hard as they are with AFRs.
This is probably due to the long runner EFI manifold now that I think about it.
You learn something new everyday but I am in the same boat as you. I ran both cams and toyed with my idea and the cams favoring exhaust always worked better for me
BUT you have to realize that my personal cars have mostly been carb cars that I played with cams alot on.
Hmmm have me thinking now.....
I wonder how a cam with more lift, less duration on exhaust would work?
For example
238/232 565/582 but on a 112 not a 110.
and at 50 for duration.
wonder how that would run?
lol man technology is a mother.....
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shade-tree:
If I were building a "street" 331 I'd go for:
331 (duh)
10.5-11:1 compression
AFR-185s (what the hell)
Holley Intake (ported)
comp cam 282 HR
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I'd expect 400 rwhp, however, IMHO, I'd rather hit that figure with a 351, more room to grow.
shade that is funny cause that is the exact motor that I just put together for a local here.
Except for the camshaft
But it is a bottle baby so Im not gonna play with the cams that have been working for Aaron and Camara as we all know nitrous cams are choosey so I went with a tried and true.
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
IMO the X cam would be better than the TFS #2 cam. It shares the same intake lobe but will have a smaller exhaust lobe for less exhaust overlap. That should help smog even more. Probably would gain more power too in an NA application.
I'm following you guys here ... but does this imply that the less duration and lift on the exhaust is better for smog????
Last time i was at the track i saw a stang with 331, E, AFR 165s & Performer RPM with a weight of 3300, best run was at 108 is this about right considering the cam?
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Dan,
For sure I hear what you're saying. He made it clear to me that different induction types need different valve timing etc to optimize performance (carb/efi's having different needs). In my case it was EFI. He flowed my AFR heads and they have one incredible exhaust port. The heads are very efficient like you mentioned. Technology has come a long way. A year ago I would've had a completely different setup.
93Snyper- I'm not sure what you want out of your car but Mike's combo is very simple and should be repeatable by anyone with the same parts. Box stock AFR 185's, The custom cam I mentioned, Holley intake, 75 mm TB, 1 3/4 headers (His track times are with the 1 5/8), Pro M 75 MAF, 30 lb injectors. That was good for near 120 traps in a full weight car (3380). He should be solid into the 120's by next time. The car drives great too. The aggressive lobes on the cam give less total duration but ramp em up VERY fast. Good luck with the setup and let us know what you choose.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
The car drives great too.
So he found out what his problem was?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
[qb][/QUOTE]I'm following you guys here ... but does this imply that the less duration and lift on the exhaust is better for smog????
Overlap is the amount of time the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time. The more overlap you have the worse the emmisions will be. Seriously, a custom cam done by a reputable efi mustang guy can provide great gains. The new technology of fast ramp rate lobes has allowed for better drivability because the valves open and close much quicker, keeping velocity high and giving the cylinder more time to compress it's air/fuel charge. The guy who did our cams likes to have the cam degreed to have a later intake closing point because of the "ram" effect the long runners provide. For ex. most cam companies have advance built into their cams. The X cam for instance if installed 'dot to dot' should come out to a 107-108 intake centerline. A cam is said to be installed straight up when it's installed on the same intake centerline as the Lobe separation. So the X cam has a 112 LSA so the real straight up would be 112 intake centerline when degreed. My cam has a 111 LSA and is installed at a 113 intake centerline, therefore 2 degrees retarded. Now if you look at the closing points for the X installed dot to dot (107) and mine (113), you can see that's a 6 degree difference as to where the intake valve closes. Mine was set to that because of my Performer intake that measures around 20" long. Basically he's saying you won't give up torque when the cam has a later closing point (when degreed for your application), but will gain top end power because the velocity through the runners is still high and if you close it too soon you're basically slamming the door on a still high flowing intake charge. I know it's a lot of crap I just threw out, but it makes total sense and his work has proven to be very successful. The great thing I liked about him was that even if I had chosen an off the shelf cam he still told me where I should degree it for that cams optimum performance, and in some cases stick 1.7 rockers on the intake side only. The main reason he keeps the exhaust side calmer is because overlap doesn't work (scavenging) if exhaust velocity isn't high enough to pull the intake charge through. He can explain all this much better than I can. His website is www.hitechmotorsport.com if you want to check it out. If you have any tech questions call him or E mail him. He's been most supportive with me and Mike to make sure we optimize our setups.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
The car drives great too.
So he found out what his problem was?
LOL, that was before the current issues. He's still troubleshooting for that. He thinks it could be a faulty fuel pump ![[Confused]](confused.gif) I have no idea. He's literally tried almost everything.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Regrounding or extra grounding everything won't hurt. You can also try unplugging one sensor at a time (with the car off, key out) and running the car to see which one is sending BS info.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
Dan,
For sure I hear what you're saying. He made it clear to me that different induction types need different valve timing etc to optimize performance (carb/efi's having different needs). In my case it was EFI. He flowed my AFR heads and they have one incredible exhaust port. The heads are very efficient like you mentioned. Technology has come a long way. A year ago I would've had a completely different setup.
93Snyper- I'm not sure what you want out of your car but Mike's combo is very simple and should be repeatable by anyone with the same parts. Box stock AFR 185's, The custom cam I mentioned, Holley intake, 75 mm TB, 1 3/4 headers (His track times are with the 1 5/8), Pro M 75 MAF, 30 lb injectors. That was good for near 120 traps in a full weight car (3380). He should be solid into the 120's by next time. The car drives great too. The aggressive lobes on the cam give less total duration but ramp em up VERY fast. Good luck with the setup and let us know what you choose.
For sheez Aaron, I will admit that I am VERY surprised that this cam grind is working great, but man I just have to sit back and just shut up when you have a stock bottom end or an under 10 to one AFR headed 306 running 115mph in the 1/4 with out of the box AFRs in a heavyish car (3400-3300)
I just cant argue with that.
but you know different intakes, different heads etc....well I guess we all know what cam profile is a running mofo with 306 or 347 and AFR heads.
WOW
but hey man I guess we have to thank technology, tho it can be a mother....it is putting 306s up there with LS1 trap speed (looks like)
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Actually I just had a new 306 built. Compression is right at 10:1. My 165's (bought used from Mike) did receive 2.02 valves and a slight bowl blend (didn't help much on the flowbench). The heads had excellent low lift #'s and had 247 CFM at .500 and 250 something at .600. The intake valves alone were worth nearly 15 CFM across the board. I can post my before and after results if you're interested. Brian at Hi Tech recommended I go with the bigger valves since piston to valve clearance wouldn't be an issue. His power quote was 340+ RWHP and 350 RWTQ when dialed in. Also at least 113 traps at 3450 lbs. From what I've felt from it so far, I'm positive it'll be right where he said when it's all tuned in. I gotta call Byron and see when he can get to it. For sure the LS1 guys have made EVERYONE step their game up. I just want to see other 5.0 guys represent us well and not stick a Mickey Mouse combo together. Technology has come a long way on both sides. I just like to be the under dog in their eyes (LS1's) and when I pop the hood and they see "all motor" and a "306" and rub it in. I hope other guys on here will see what's working and follow to show some of these LS1's what's up. Later on I'll rig up the bottle again.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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