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Topic: Ouch - subprime mortgage foreclosures in a dope image
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
 
 
The whole subprime morgage thing was the worst thing that could have happened to this countries economy. The people writing these deals got rich off of people who were not smart enough to see this comming. I tried to warn my friends who did this. I sat on my sweet 30 year fixed and didn't budge.
I do not feel sorry for these companies because they led all these poor people into this trap and were just waiting for the subprime time line to expire so they could jack the peoples rates. what else could the people do when there morgage rate tripled except walk away?
The problem is they got so greedy they sent the economy into a tail spin. Now everybody has to pay for it. I bet they are regreting it now.
[ April 22, 2008, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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That's a reasonable perspective, but don't forget the part of the blame that rests on the borrowers. People who signed on the dotted line agreeing to variable rate mortgages made a financial commitment just like any other, that they agreed to live up to regardless of what the economy does. When the rates went up, it shouldn't have been a surprise, that's how ARMs work.
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
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Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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venomous99
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Member # 1917
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i agree with the 1st response..i think the majority of the blame should go to the lender and not so much the borrowers. as borrowers we always estimate short our expenses and belive we could afford things we cant, looking at our situations in a optimistic light. its the banks job to do the proper screens and determine if an applicant is qualified and is the reason why they shouldve kept up with full docs and been more stringent about the requirements. shoot...i think of it like a person with bad credit looking to finance something. would that person if given the chance to buy a car think twice about signing the dotted line so the responsibility lies in the borrower, the ones that have more financial risk to prevent shit like this from happening.
many of these ppl that jumped on the real estate bandwagon didnt think of ARM because they were thinking of a short term investment, which they could flip for quick cash. the shit backfired
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MKII Q7
89LX
Posts: 4811 | From: dc | Registered: Oct 2002
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
I guess I don't understand the idea of financial responsibility belonging to anybody besides the individual. I was raised to believe that America is a land of opportunity, and anybody can do what they want, but if you choose to take risks, then you are the one who has to take the consequences. Personal freedom, personal responsibility. That's how I was brought up, but maybe that was a different generation. 95% of the people I've talked to think subprime borrowers are innocent victims of predatory lenders.
To me, saying the government or the lenders should have prevented borrowers from taking on more than they can handle is a lot like blaming Ford if you buy your teenager a Mustang and they wreck it - hey Ford, you should have stopped me from buying that car. Makes no sense to me?
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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hidnn.o.s.
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Member # 1219
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
The whole subprime morgage thing was the worst thing that could have happened to this countries economy. The people writing these deals got rich off of people who were not smart enough to see this comming. I tried to warn my friends who did this. I sat on my sweet 30 year fixed and didn't budge.
I do not feel sorry for these companies because they led all these poor people into this trap and were just waiting for the subprime time line to expire so they could jack the peoples rates. what else could the people do when there morgage rate tripled except walk away?
The problem is they got so greedy they sent the economy into a tail spin. Now everybody has to pay for it. I bet they are regreting it now.
WOW, first post you've made (that I've read) that makes 100% sense to me ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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R.I.P. Willie G. You are missed on this forum
Posts: 15950 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Jdub07
( O Y O )
Member # 2728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
The whole subprime morgage thing was the worst thing that could have happened to this countries economy. The people writing these deals got rich off of people who were not smart enough to see this comming. I tried to warn my friends who did this. I sat on my sweet 30 year fixed and didn't budge.
I do not feel sorry for these companies because they led all these poor people into this trap and were just waiting for the subprime time line to expire so they could jack the peoples rates. what else could the people do when there morgage rate tripled except walk away?
The problem is they got so greedy they sent the economy into a tail spin. Now everybody has to pay for it. I bet they are regreting it now.
that makes 100% sense to me
+1
Posts: 7282 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Wildfire532FB
CAFords OG
Member # 1482
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BCINGUU:
I guess I don't understand the idea of financial responsibility belonging to anybody besides the individual. I was raised to believe that America is a land of opportunity, and anybody can do what they want, but if you choose to take risks, then you are the one who has to take the consequences. Personal freedom, personal responsibility. That's how I was brought up, but maybe that was a different generation. 95% of the people I've talked to think subprime borrowers are innocent victims of predatory lenders.
To me, saying the government or the lenders should have prevented borrowers from taking on more than they can handle is a lot like blaming Ford if you buy your teenager a Mustang and they wreck it - hey Ford, you should have stopped me from buying that car. Makes no sense to me?
i think your going to have a different outlook on it because you used to work as a subprime lender. Everyone will point fingers in different directions, the question is how do we fix the problem now?
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68 Fastback
84 CJ7
94 HMMWV
95 GT
03 F350
17 Fusion Hybrid
Posts: 17578 | From: 530 | Registered: Jun 2002
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 532Fastback:
i think your going to have a different outlook on it because you used to work as a subprime lender. Everyone will point fingers in different directions, the question is how do we fix the problem now?
Good perspective. I should probably mention before I start attracting too much criticism that I worked in IT, not in the lending department. But it's true that I see this from the lender's perspective. We were trying to do something good, putting people into houses who otherwise wouldn't be able to qualify. Home ownership should be available to everybody. Just like a car or a big screen TV or a swimming pool, or whatever, everybody should have a chance to make their own decision and take on as much financial risk as they can handle, without the government or the lenders deciding who is allowed to do it. That was the philosophy.
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BCINGUU:
I guess I don't understand the idea of financial responsibility belonging to anybody besides the individual. I was raised to believe that America is a land of opportunity, and anybody can do what they want, but if you choose to take risks, then you are the one who has to take the consequences. Personal freedom, personal responsibility. That's how I was brought up, but maybe that was a different generation. 95% of the people I've talked to think subprime borrowers are innocent victims of predatory lenders.
To me, saying the government or the lenders should have prevented borrowers from taking on more than they can handle is a lot like blaming Ford if you buy your teenager a Mustang and they wreck it - hey Ford, you should have stopped me from buying that car. Makes no sense to me?
The problem I have with this response is alot of lenders misslead the borroweres on what they thought would happen to the interest rates in 5 years. Or how easy it would be to just slide in to a fixed before your subprime rate expired. Since alot of borrowers look at the lenders as experts they bought into it. JMO/ I am not saying you are one of these people but if everything was layed out alot more clearly it might not be as bad.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
I can see your point, but there's an important distinction between the lender and the broker. The lender never sees or talks to the borrower, it's the mortgage brokers that do that. So that part of the blame belongs with the brokers, not the lenders. All the lender ever sees is a paper application, not a face. Which is also why there are charges of discrimination being leveled at lenders, and lawsuits based on that, which aren't sticking.
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
you are right. I ment the broker(agent you personaly deal with) and said lender.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jdub07
( O Y O )
Member # 2728
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posted
Do your homework is all I can say. If you don't know what the terminology means then ask. If you don't know the meaning of even a word then find out. I had no problem asking that kind of shit. READ EVERYTHING!
Lender or not, trust or dont,...you in the end make the final decision. If you know simple math then you can find out if you can afford a house, car, clothes whatever.
We almost got taken for fools,...twice, so listen to your gut too and all advice you get take it with a salt lick because home transactions are like snow flakes,...no two are alike. Okay bad example but you get the point.
Posts: 7282 | Registered: Apr 2003
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
According to the map, it looks like the Sacramento / Stockton / Merced area has the highest default rates in California, around 20%. That area looks like it's been hit pretty hard, what's going on out there?
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Stangs R Us
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Member # 4495
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posted
Ya there are about 20 houses with BANK OWNED signs in my neighborhood about 2 on each street.
Posts: 3100 | From: sacramento | Registered: Aug 2005
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N8
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Member # 6048
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Man it is insane in Stockton. About 4 friends have lost their houses. And no counting how many houses on my street have signs out front. My first house was sub-prime, and it was not a all bad situation and it helped me build up to where I can own multiple properties. So that dark cloud has a silver lining. I attribute most peoples issues to not fully reading their terms and conditions and not thinking/living reasonably. People "trying to keep up with the Jones's", is a big issue too. I know people that bought their houses with interest only loans and adjustable rate mortgages that start out great. But 3 years in your payment balloons. I made sure when I signed my papers that if push comes to shove I can afford my payment on my current earnings. Not banking on growth and all these other pie in the sky dreams. Then there is the war and the e-bubble burst. All that stuff kinda ties in.
but most of it was ignorance. Read your papers and do the math. Cost of living goes up by average 3%. If you your house payment will be 3 times your income in 4 years. Probably shouldn't buy the house.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
There is more than just ignorance going on. Just look at the massive numbers of Bank owned homes. Yes some is ignorance some was fraud. It is all bad. How in the world do all these people get approved for loans then bail 5 years later? Most have the same jobs they had when they applied. We haven't even started talking about the seconds people took out when the market was still climbing..
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jdub07
( O Y O )
Member # 2728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
There is more than just ignorance going on. Just look at the massive numbers of Bank owned homes. Yes some is ignorance some was fraud. It is all bad. How in the world do all these people get approved for loans then bail 5 years later? Most have the same jobs they had when they applied. We haven't even started talking about the seconds people took out when the market was still climbing..
In answer to your question on how they were approved for loans 5 years ago is simple. Banks were taking people word on what they made per year. They weren't doing the full blown backround checks they are today...there wasn't time. Also in the rush as you said many people got fooled, taken and ripped off. Very sad for many families.
Posts: 7282 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jdub07
( O Y O )
Member # 2728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
People "trying to keep up with the Jones's",
yup...squeezing into a house then going out and buying an escalade with 26" rims was the thing five years ago. Anyone else notice that shit? hahaha
Posts: 7282 | Registered: Apr 2003
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svfreerider87
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Member # 5748
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posted
givin that they signed non fixed rate loans, it is up to the borrower to take into account a fluctuation of interest rates, it's not necessarily the lenders being "unethical" in giving out these loans, just bad accounting practices on the lendee's behalf.
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Dreamspeed Motorsports
Posts: 1685 | From: Sunnyvale | Registered: Jun 2005
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
There is more than just ignorance going on. Just look at the massive numbers of Bank owned homes. Yes some is ignorance some was fraud. It is all bad. How in the world do all these people get approved for loans then bail 5 years later? Most have the same jobs they had when they applied. We haven't even started talking about the seconds people took out when the market was still climbing..
In answer to your question on how they were approved for loans 5 years ago is simple. Banks were taking people word on what they made per year. They weren't doing the full blown backround checks they are today...there wasn't time. Also in the rush as you said many people got fooled, taken and ripped off. Very sad for many families.
I disagree I did a refi. 5 years ago and I still had to turn in all my tax returns for the last 2 years, check stubs, and credit reports. I didn't fall for the whole subprime thing I did the 30 year fixed. I do agree that some of the blame is on the borrower.. But look what happened to the market,look at all the forclosures of houses? It was all brought on by the subprime scam. Yes some people made out ok but just look at the graph in the first post. It was all fueled by greed. You can't tell me the lenders were not just sitting there rubing there hands to gether waiting for the subprime timelines to run out. OOPs look what happened now they are saying they are victoms lol. like I said before it is a messed up deal..I guess I am more cautious then others I saw this day comming a mile away.
[ April 23, 2008, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jdub07
( O Y O )
Member # 2728
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posted
My wife and I saw this too. Almost jumped on the bandwagon but waited. I'm sure there are many factors as to why lenders would approved people back then,...and I'm sure there are cases where stubs and taxes were requested but I'm also sure they were less diligent back then and were placing people in homes knowing they wouldn't be able to make the grade. Everyone sucks and is at fault except me cause I can fall in shit and come out smellin like roses. LOL. But seriously I DO feel for these families losing their homes ![[Frown]](frown.gif) I think more about the little kids that are being uprooted!! Fuckin SAD.
Posts: 7282 | Registered: Apr 2003
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Then you have stuff like this going on:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/lawsuit-claims-kb-home-countrywide/story.aspx?guid=%7B14A0DC4F-7F3D-49ED-9D1C-67CEE8B09C73%7D
It's a system problem IMO.
A system that is setup to reward inflating the price of a home. Brokers & agents are paid a percentage of the home....reguardless of price. If I were in Realty, I would rather sell 1 $500K home, than 5 $100K homes. Less work, same $$$.
Same goes for the mortgage companies. The higher the price of the home, the more actual dollar profit they get off the loan. Same percentage as a lower priced home, but more actual dollars profit.
10-12 years ago it would take 3-4 loans to pay the same dollar profit as 1 home today.
& lets face it.....when you have a 30, 40, or 50 year loan (yeah, some people actually got 50 year loans), that's a shit-load of profit over the life of the loan.
Then throw in the greed of Wallstreet.... (They are a Key player in all of this) They're always looking for ways to make money. Anytime you move $$$ (investments), someone takes a cut. The more money you move, the more cuts you take. Wallstreet started trading loans as *investments*. After all, one mans debt is technically another's asset. They'd then turn around and borrow off the 'asset' (home loan), or go in with another company as partners.....then the partner could borrow on that 'asset'....the more the 'asset' was moved & borrowed against, the more $$$ someone got in their pockets for 'moving' the 'asset'. This happened in bulk. One $300K loan could easily have 10 times that borrowed against it. (one companies debt is another's asset & therefore a one mortgage creates a chain of borrowing). This made huge profits for trading loans.....which in turn ment it was more profitable to give loans...which ment looser requirements for loaning $$$ to everybody that wanted to buy a house, which in turn drove home prices sky high. (How many of you got a notice in the mail that your mortgage was 'bought' by another company? A buddy of mine had his mortgage sold to 3 different mortgage companies in 1 year.)
Then shit hits the fan.......when one link in the chain breaks (Bear Stearns), it creates a chain reaction. Those holding Bear Stearns *notes* for loans/assets looked to the next company in the chain to have thier (Bear Sterns) debt paid. It's a giant web of links.....too many to even think about trying to grab ahold of. That is why the Feds stepped in & saved Bear Stearns. By doing so they prevented the entire banking system from collapsing.... Not they've got to *fix* the problem.
Our individual foreclosures are low on the priority list when they've got to deal with the Banking system as a whole...not to mention the impact on the entire economy. What do you think would happen if one after another major bank failed?
Nope.... IMO the responsibility for the home mortgage 'crisis' lies at the feet of those trading & borrowing on our mortgage notes. The greed of WallStreet & the Banking comunity to make an extra buck at our expense.
My opinion is that we should all have our homes appraised & force the mortgage companies to renegociate our loans at the 'corrected' market value. They've made enough $$$ of the backs of the American People.
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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
it is fueled by the rich being greedy wanting to get richer. Not caring who they are screwing to do it...very interesting 93pony I had not realy looked at it like that. I do like your idea of re-apraising the homes...but unfortunatly at the same time home rates were going through the roof apraisers were doing some screwing of there own lol. I bought my house 7 years ago and it tripled in value during the rush. My wife and I make decent money together for Redding(probably nothing compared to bay area wages lol).I could no way afford to buy my house at triple the cost.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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91PONY
Mrs. Valve Events
Member # 206
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BCINGUU:
We were trying to do something good, putting people into houses who otherwise wouldn't be able to qualify.
Bingo. How exactly is that good?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Heather '91 GT
Posts: 1477 | From: Citrus Heights, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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