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Author
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Topic: Road Racing Revival!!!
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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OK...
I'm kinda dissappointed that the Road Racing forum is so thin...!!!
I want to try to bring life to this forum and get all you closet road racers out!!!
I love Drag Racing don't get me wrong, but Road Racing is where my heart is.
Now I know several mustang owners in NASA (National Autosports Association) that Road Race but there has to be other guys out there that have mustangs that want to be corner carvers??? Right???
I want to take it on as my personal goal to thicken up this forum, because I want to see more Road Racing enthusiasm... especially when now is the time for building since it's the off season.
Who out there is interested in putting there mustang on a real race track and testing the g-force gods???
If you think you have to be a full competition racer... think again... I can show you how to put your street stang on the track and still drive it home at the end of the day!!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Any Takers?
John
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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Blu50Stang
CAFords OG
Member # 489
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posted
Though drag racing is fun, it is too short. Corner carving is where the real fun is(especially since the fun isn't over in a matter of seconds). I haven't gotten either of my stangs on a road course yet, but I do intend to make it out to some events.
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Ross
'88 GT - 5.0&SF 4/04 | MM&FF 8/09 | MM&FF 79-93 Mustang Performance Cover 12/12
'17 GT350R
Posts: 1916 | From: Not CA | Registered: Oct 2001
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
let me know how serious you are, because I may be able to help...
There is a program in the racing organization that I am a part of and you can take your street stang on the track!
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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SteveL
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Member # 1241
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by jcm3man:
There is a program in the racing organization that I am a part of and you can take your street stang on the track!
What organization is that?
Posts: 578 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: May 2002
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
National Autosports Association (NASA)
There are several options for all driver levels.
www.nasaproracing.com
The option that I am talking about for the guy who wants to bring his street car to the track is a good one. It is called "HPDE" or "High Performance Driving Events". This is an opportunity to drive your car on real race tracks as a alternative to auto crossing around cones. I don't have anything against auto crossing, this is simply an opportunity to drive on real road courses.
Check out the information for HPDE events at:
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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GOT 50
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Member # 1960
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posted
Thakns for the links
Eric
Posts: 2139 | From: SF/DALY CITY/MILLBRAE | Registered: Oct 2002
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
NP,
I am available for any questions on setup and what you would need to attend one of these events. I am also thinking about being kind of a consultant to anyone that wants to get involved with these events.
I just need to see how much interest there is for guys to put there cars on the track...
[ December 11, 2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: jcm3man ]
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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GOT 50
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Member # 1960
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posted
I want to get involved so bad. Right now i have a 93 vert with a 6 point welded in roll bar. Will this provide enought chasis stifness or am i gonna just keep on breaking stuff bending the frame and so on? I want to sell it and get a hard top would this be a better idea?
Posts: 2139 | From: SF/DALY CITY/MILLBRAE | Registered: Oct 2002
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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I would recommend this...
If you want to get in to racing... Run the vert right now until your sure that you want to commit seriously. The vert is paid for right? This will keep your costs down and hassles of trying to find another car to replace the vert until you absolutely are sure about racing. Second I would highly recommend a LX 5.0 or a Coupe (Notchback) if you are going to race seriously. The notchback chassis is the most rigid of the 3 bodies.
There are specific things you need to look into when taking your car on the track. I should create a list of must haves at the track.
What mods have you done to your car?
[ December 11, 2003, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: jcm3man ]
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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GOT 50
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Member # 1960
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posted
HCI 277 hp to the wheels 301 tq
Its pretty light with me in it its about 3400.
3.73 gears. I know i was into drag racing for a bit. Thats about it. I am in the process of purchasing an A4 block 347 though. I have eibach progresive rate lowering springs which are spent. Back end sags pretty bad. blisten shoks all around and polly urathane bushings. 6 point roll bar also.
Posts: 2139 | From: SF/DALY CITY/MILLBRAE | Registered: Oct 2002
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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I would not buy a 347!
The engine will not take the abuse of road racing!
The pistons for a 347 kit have the lower oil ring groove cut in to the wrist pin which will allow oil to pass by this first oil ring and will cause oil burn very early in the motors life. If you want to get a stroker motor I would recommend a 331 stroker. The pistons on a well built 331 do not have the oil ring issue and will last considerably longer...!
DSS and CHP both make a piston like this but I would recommend DSS over CHP because DSS actually came up with the shorter rod to accomodate the piston.
Second,
Save your money and get a Sportsman Block if you are gonna race on a limited basis. Because if you are going to make the car strictly a race car... the process can get very expensive and out of hand if you don't approach the car correctly. For example I would recommend a Dart block instead of an A4 block, which is now the R302. The R302 is not a bad block, but I have seen 3 or 4 crack down the center of the oil valley and I have never seen a Dart block crack under the most extreme abuse.
The other issue is that for road racing I would look in to a Keith Craft Racing motor instead of DSS or CHP... because I have seen the most reliability and success from engines that come from Keith Craft. The alternative may be to get a kit from DSS and buy a Dart block and have a local builder (like me, shameless plug ) assemble the kit. You can save money this way, or you can have any one of these companies send you a complete rotating assembly.
I am not partial to any one brand and I have seen varied results and I have seen both street and track combinations. I only speak from experience and I always believe in using what works, instead of spending money repeatedly.
[ December 12, 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: jcm3man ]
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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Bill/APEX Motorsports
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Member # 636
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quote:
Originally posted by jcm3man:
The other issue is that for road racing I would look in to a Keith Craft Racing motor instead of DSS or CHP... because I have seen the most reliability and success from engines that come from Keith Craft.
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement! Keith Craft does build very good engines, as does Kuntz & Co. (It used to be Kuntz & Craft, but they split up.)
For a road race car with a 5.0 block, I generally recommend no bigger than 327-331c.i. for durability and reliability.
[ December 12, 2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Bill/APEX Motorsports ]
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Bill Kaiser
APEX Motorsports
Santa Clara
www.apexmotorsports.com
408-562-1000
bill@apexmotorsports.com
Posts: 488 | From: Santa Clara, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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I'll be testing the waters early next year in various autox events which are all over the place and then I'll do a few of those track day things at Sears Point, and maybe they'll let me in on the American Iron series next year. A real simple setup right now, 13" twin piston PBR calibers (aka bullit take-offs), rear turbocoupe style discs, 2800# car w/6 pt. rollbar, tokiko 5-ways at all corners and those motorsport fixed rate lowering springs. other bolt-ons to follow but I think that should get my started. car doesn't have a lot of power (318 to the wheels) but it's a 302 with a mild cam and doesn't seem to have any overheating or reliability issues. one big question I have is would you guys recommend powersteering? I think I need it for autox, but not sure about roadcourse duty. not committed to any 'class' at this point but it looks like the SCCA will throw me to the wolves in street modified where I'd get butchered I'm sure, lol.
I have to get the spool out of course, lol!
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bill/APEX Motorsports
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Member # 636
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quote:
Originally posted by jcm3man:
If you want to get in to racing... Run the vert right now until your sure that you want to commit seriously.
I've been road racing for about 12 years now (NASA, Shelby Club, Green Flag, etc. at Sears Point, Laguna, Buttonwillow, Thunderhill, Streets of Willows, etc.), and my first track car was an '88 GT convertible. I slowly but surely turned it into a race car for the street, and it became hard to live with on a day-to-day basis. I had a 4-pt. roll bar, Griggs Full Frame Kit, etc. The chassis was stiffer than most hatchbacks out there! However, I came to the realization after a while that it just wasn't the proper car to be seriously racing, especially as my skills and confidence level brought me up to pretty high rate of speeds. I kept driving and racing it until I got my '93 Cobra, which I decided to not get too crazy with (aside from the 351, full Griggs suspension, Baer brakes, etc.). I sold the Cobra to concentrate on my race-only car, which is an '89 notchback. I built that one as a no-compromise car. No smog. No comfort conveniences. Pretty much an engine, brakes, and a roll cage! While I do have to trailer the car to an event, that just means that if something does break, I can still get the car home and fix it at a later date.
So, the moral of the story is that I agree with jcm. Start racing the convertible, to hone your skills and get used to driving on the track. However, never forget that you're driving a car with no roof. As you get more confident and serious about opentracking over the years, then think about building a track-only car. You'll be glad you made the progression in that fashion.
I've been instructing my customers for the last five or six years, so if ever need me to attend an event with you, I'd have no problems giving you some pointers from the passenger seat.
![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
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Bill Kaiser
APEX Motorsports
Santa Clara
www.apexmotorsports.com
408-562-1000
bill@apexmotorsports.com
Posts: 488 | From: Santa Clara, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Bill/APEX Motorsports
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Member # 636
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quote:
Originally posted by shade-:
I'll be testing the waters early next year in various autox events which are all over the place and then I'll do a few of those track day things at Sears Point, and maybe they'll let me in on the American Iron series next year. A real simple setup right now, 13" twin piston PBR calibers (aka bullit take-offs), rear turbocoupe style discs, 2800# car w/6 pt. rollbar, tokiko 5-ways at all corners and those motorsport fixed rate lowering springs. other bolt-ons to follow but I think that should get my started. car doesn't have a lot of power (318 to the wheels) but it's a 302 with a mild cam and doesn't seem to have any overheating or reliability issues. one big question I have is would you guys recommend powersteering? I think I need it for autox, but not sure about roadcourse duty. not committed to any 'class' at this point but it looks like the SCCA will throw me to the wolves in street modified where I'd get butchered I'm sure, lol.
That setup will do for now, but as you get more involved, you'll find that the spring rates are too soft. And what brake pads are you running? For opentracking, I recommend Hawk Blues, which work fantastically well but will chew up your rotors. That's the trade-off in racing! Things like brake pads, rotors, tires, and gasonline become consumables that you just have to face will need to be replaced often.
Keep your power steering, but add a simple cooler to it. That will work wonders! The stickier the tire you use, the harder the power steering will work, so keep that in mind.
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Bill Kaiser
APEX Motorsports
Santa Clara
www.apexmotorsports.com
408-562-1000
bill@apexmotorsports.com
Posts: 488 | From: Santa Clara, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
Bill's right about the car... You have more than enough car to get started and you will find that if you get serious... you will want to build a car purposely for the track. The other thing I would suggest is to do the NASA HPDE course... It is probably the best option for the dollar to drive on real road courses and get a feel for track driving. Also the course offers instruction that is essentially free, other than the cost of the fees for the weekend. The weekend runs about $279 or $149 a day.
Check out the link for HPDE events.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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GOT 50
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Member # 1960
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posted
Just wanna say thanks for all the info.
I looked for the calender for the hdpe and its not up yet. I would love a mentor so bill if your down i am more then willing.
Eric
Posts: 2139 | From: SF/DALY CITY/MILLBRAE | Registered: Oct 2002
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racercosmo
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Member # 1864
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318 at the wheels is plenty if your car weighs 2,800 lbs. American Iron uses a weight to power ratio of 9.5lbs per HP. I assume that that weight is without you , so adding a driver, plus other essentials may bring you to 3,100 lbs. For American Iron, minimum weight for 318 hp is 3,021 lbs. There are a few "Horsepower Tracks" around, but for the most part, a lightweight car is more desirable than a heavy car with more power.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder
Posts: 973 | From: Marin | Registered: Sep 2002
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bobh
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Member # 1495
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Before anyone gets too scared off by all the high mod/high $$ talk you can spend lots of time with your stock car open-tracking, not racing.
Good general open-tracking info at the Nor Cal Shelby Club site. www.norcal-saac.org and go to the Open Track Info link.
There are lots of groups & clubs that rent local tracks. If you want one offering instruction try these:
www.ncracing.org
www.speedventures.net
www.tracquest.com
www.unlimitedlaps.com
and Thunderhill offers a street school www.thunderhill.com
(I've instructed w/Tracquest & THill. I'm not familiar with the others).
Check the schedules for various tracks and follow the links to the groups renting.
Basically, all you need are good tires, good brakes, a seatbelt and a helmet (or rent one).
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97 Cobra, 87 GT vert, 99 SHO
Auto Performance Pages
Posts: 59 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jul 2002
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9COBRA8
CaliforniaFords.com Owner
Member # 6
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by jcm3man:
OK...
I'm kinda dissappointed that the Road Racing forum is so thin...!!!
I want to try to bring life to this forum and get all you closet road racers out!!!
Sounds good to us!! Don't hesitate to post often in this section. If you need any administrative help, feel free to email feedback@californiafords.com . We need to get the road racing section off the ground. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on going about this?
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-Matt
Milesblown03> Rest In Peace 12/08/02
Posts: 1668 | From: Fremont, CA | Registered: Jun 2000
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1Sicgt
CAFords OG
Member # 714
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posted
A group of us are currently talking about renting t-hill for day, if there is interest in this amungst other drivers out there who would be interested in sharing costs of such a thing, we could have a open track day. Let me know people.
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14 Focus TS ST3 full Stg3, ready for bigger Turbo
2003 Cobra Track Car
Posts: 8145 | From: Hitting the Apex | Registered: Jan 2002
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 1Sicgt:
A group of us are currently talking about renting t-hill for day, if there is interest in this amungst other drivers out there who would be interested in sharing costs of such a thing, we could have a open track day. Let me know people.
Let me know what you have planned... What date(s) are you looking at... maybe I can attend to support the cars.
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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Bill/APEX Motorsports
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Member # 636
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 1Sicgt:
A group of us are currently talking about renting t-hill for day, if there is interest in this amungst other drivers out there who would be interested in sharing costs of such a thing, we could have a open track day. Let me know people.
I'm interested! Keep me posted!
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Bill Kaiser
APEX Motorsports
Santa Clara
www.apexmotorsports.com
408-562-1000
bill@apexmotorsports.com
Posts: 488 | From: Santa Clara, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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jcm3man
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Member # 3834
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posted
Bill and I both are interested in this T-Hill event... send us both information if there is any...
Also like I said in the 1st post of this thread... MORE TRAFFIC ON THIS POST...
I know there are guys out there that would love to road race... and get instruction while doing it. So speak up and Bill and I will both gladly help you guys out.
John
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WWW.ALTEREDSPEED.COM
(209)234-7890
john@alteredspeed.com
Diablosport, Dyno tuning, Performance Parts, etc.
Posts: 230 | From: Tracy | Registered: Nov 2003
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bobh
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Member # 1495
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posted
I be interested.
Posts: 59 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jul 2002
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