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Author
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Topic: WooHoo! Ordered my cam today!
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
 
 
I'll probably reply more later tonight, but I have to go study for an exam....
I just wanted to pull out a local "case study". Byron of racesystems.com's old '93 Cobra...
exhaust, a stinky powerdyne at 13 psi and a stock motor made 406 rwhp. 93PONY- you made 3 PSI less through your twin turbos, but have 30 more cubic inches, a better cam, lightly cleaned up heads an air to air intercooler, yet only made 15-20 rwhp more than Byron's '93 Cobra. Do all the conceptual theory you want on this, but I'm telling you contrary to what that unemployed cyber-salesmen Dave Inall says, boost is boost, I don't care if it says Vortech or Garret on the box. I can go on and on and on with local examples if you want. Here is another one:
http://www.cafords.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000257
8 psi of intercooled vortech boost through edelbrock 6037's, cobra intake and a Crane 2031 cam on a stock bottem end making 442 rwhp.
His heads flow 25 cfm better than yours, but he's running 2 psi less boost, has 30 less cubic inches than you, an "eh" cam yet is making 15-20 rwhp more than your combo.
10 psi of turbo boost is equal to 15 psi of vortech boost eh????
Should I keep going with examples like this?
94 GT with stock bottem end, shit kicking powerdyne at 11 psi, E cam, GT40 intake, edelbrock 6037's on a stock 302 bottem end..... 430 rwhp.... again, you have 30 more cubic inches on him, 25 less cfm flowing heads, 1 psi less boost, but he has no intercooler, a bit less of a cam and are making the exact same power as him.... am I missing something here? 10 psi turbo boost equals 15 psi supercharger boost???? Lets put this debate to rest right here, its impossible for you to win such a false claim. Believe what you want, but don't confuse other rookie 5.O guys. Magazines and internet sites already confuse them enough with BS tech.
As for not liking Ed Curtis... he doesn't post any tech advice... he only gives bullshit conceptual theory and the only numbers he ever posts is his phone number and how many dollars for his services. You'll never see him give true tech advice, only brag about himself and try to sell AFR heads and custom cams online. He isn't out to help the hobby, but only out to help is own pockets. I want to puke every time I read his info-mercials because of the blaytant way he tries to brainwash 5.O guys. Dave Inall is the same way which would explain why he's in the unemployment line right now ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shade-tree:
This thread rules. Can't wait to see some of the faster AFR combos when they hit the track. See sig!
Yes, this thread does rule ![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
shade-tree, I want yours and other people's input on this like John91Coupe, 67stang, ect.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
I'm focusing cracking into 14 second land on my "worst cam ever" car ![[Wink]](wink.gif) (a '94 cobra cam). I think a 100 shot this Saturday will get me there on slicks! Maybe they'll let me stage with my back tires for the secret 9 foot head start!
which would you rather race for ET? a 1320 or a 1311? lol ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
st5150,
The problem with the argument and examples you are giving is that you are using boost numbers. 8psi on one car is "X" amount of airflow(CFM, or whatever you want to use), but 8psi on a different car is not neccessarily equal to "X".
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Jeff, all the combo's I listed have the same size exhaust, more or less similar cams and similar (if not exact) flowing heads and intakes. They all more or less provide the same restriction to the blower/turbo so comparing boost numbers instead of cfm is valid in my opinion. Even if we were to compare cfm, are you saying a powerdyne moves more air than the big Incon twin turbo kit? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'd also like to add that a local (or former local I should say) Sean Lewis upgraded the powerdyne in his mid 400 rwhp notchback to an S trim with nothing else and gained 20 rwhp across the board at the same boost level, so keep that in mind when looking at the local examples above
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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91PONY
Mrs. Valve Events
Member # 206
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posted
I'll post more later...
You forget I run complete smog setup w/cats. Are you saying all those combos listed are running the same?
BTW, my car made 457RWHP & 525RWTQ on a completely stock longblock w/ off-road exhaust & 9psi.
I run 9psi now as well.
The T-bird cam (stock Cobra) makes peak power 500rpm above the stock GT cam BTW.
An E cam is significantly larger then the stock Gt cam. 20 degrees more overlap!!! & 10 degrees more duration on both intake & exhaust.
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Heather '91 GT
Posts: 1477 | From: Citrus Heights, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
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cobraman_1994
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Member # 467
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posted
lol
you sound like shaun
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86 GT
Posts: 4882 | From: eldorado hills | Registered: Sep 2001
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 91PONY:
The T-bird cam (stock Cobra) makes peak power 500rpm above the stock GT cam BTW.
what context is this? CNC ported AFR's on a DSS 306 longblock?
Factory stock built 310 cube shortblock with 13:1 GT-40s?
did you put a cobra cam into a stock HO block and witness the HP peak rise 500 rpm?
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
I too will post more later (exam in 1 hour, 1 question, 25 minutes, 10% of my grade ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) )
Good post shade-tree..... way to see the whole forest and not just one tree.
forest = whole combo
tree = one item such as a cam or what not
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
I guess I should've clarified....
The Cobra cam peaked 500rpm higher on the stock 302 as opose to the GT cam in the 331. Same heads/intake/boost, etc. Take into account the added displacement & it'd be more like 300rpm higher then the stock GT cam.
Sawson, what you fail to see is whole power curve of this blower vs turbo debate.
HP = torque * (rpm/5252)
The torque curve is everything! Full boost at peak torque.... Get the picture.
Pull my turbos & slap on a Vorturd....intercooled. Hell, use the Incon intercooler I don't care. (BTW, on a dyno, an intercooler is NOT very efficient) At peak TQ (3700rpm) boost would be minimal. At Peak HP (4800rpm) boost would be 6-7psi MAX for a 9lb setup. 7psi at peak HP will not produce more then 400RWHP even intercooled on my setup. Torque would be well under 400RW as well.
So, I'd lose at least 30RWHP & over 100RWTQ!
I don't really know, nor care what Dave Inall says, writes, whatever. Now Corky Bell....that's another story.
How can you rip on Ed when you've never even talked with the guy? Never had any experience with him... All you see is the Corral BS. I've gotten lots of good tech from the guy. Dispite what you may think, he DOES know his shit.
[ December 04, 2002, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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90GT
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Member # 3
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posted
Since Jeff's car was mentioned I figured I would chime in. He was seeing about 10 psi the day it ran 11.2's. 124-104 = 20mph. Vorturd, ouch that one hurt, lol.
Posts: 357 | Registered: Aug 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Sorry about that Scott. Just trying to make a point. 20mph from 10psi is awesome!
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
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posted
Uh oh! Scott spoke!
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AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
I don't know where to begin so I think I'm going to end it.
I was trying to give my unbias experience based on _several_ local examples of 5.O's running around our streets and tracks to back up my claims. Local is important because you can actually see and hear the car and find out dirty secrets that never make it online such as a piss poor idle, its actually a stroker, chews up belts, stalls at every stop light, pops head gaskets monthly, actually ran more boost/octane that he's claiming, ect. You know all the stuff people 'accidently' forget to type when bragging online, but all the locals know the real picture.
I didn't mean to pick on your turbo car, but its the only 'documented' street turbo 5.O running around here these days that I know of.
If you think turbo boost is vastly superior to centrfical boost and the camshaft is the end all end part of a combo, so be it. I tried to site many local examples of cars that go directly against your ideology to help you see the big picture and have failed.
Makes no difference to me. Bash trick flows and centrificals all you want if you can back it up. I don't own anything from trick flow or "vorturd". In my garage sits a stock 5.O with a mystry miss/hesitation at upper RPMS Don't shoot me, I'm just the messanger of local 5.O combos ![[dance]](graemlins/dance.gif)
[ December 04, 2002, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
I guess we're just 2 stuburn 5.0 fanatics....
Good thread/discusion Sawson. See you next time I dyno the beast.
[ December 04, 2002, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Cool, I think I figured out my digital camera settings better so the pictures this time will do your paint justice. Hopefully your dyno tune will be in January because for the rest of this month I'll either be swamped with finals or out of town.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Probably February.... I think the shops are booked solid till then. + the cam probably won't be here till late January.
Good luck on the finals.
[ December 04, 2002, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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