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Topic: Anybody run the E cam 4 degrees retarded?
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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I've got a 331 with an E cam and Edelbrock Performer heads and intake. I was talking to a friend/American Iron racer that said the E cam will give me a little more rpm if I install it 4 degrees retarded. He said it also knocks about 50 lb-ft of torque off the top of the curve, which will help driveability with the relatively small heads and intake. I am also going to be running an S-trim with 8-10 psi, and am trying to keep things conservative. I'm chipping my MSD at 6,200 rpm, and plan to shift at 5,800.
What do you guys think about retarding the cam? Should it still pass smog 4 degrees retarded? Also, with the 331 and the supercharger, will I need to port the Performer intake to make it even make power to 5,800 rpm? Anybody have any experience with how much to open it up?
Thanks in Advance!
[ December 09, 2008, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Casey90GT ]
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Some day I'll finish it.
Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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There is some advance ground into them from the gate from what I hear.
I have to ask why you want to RPM the motor harder?
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Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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I don't really...I know desktop dyno isn't 100% accurate, but it shows this motor making over 500 lb-ft of torque from 1,500 rpm through 5,500 rpm peaking at almost 600 lb-ft in the middle with 10 psi. I was building this thing to be a street car, and that sounds like it would be damn near impossible to drive. Retarding the cam 4 degrees (at least in desktop dyno) moves the whole power band and makes a much flatter curve where torque and horsepower meet. I'll attach a graph. The red and green lines are with the cam straight up, the yellow and blue lines are 4 degrees retarded.
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Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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LOL that thing will definitely be a transmission killer. Nice torque numbers, not sure how accurate desktop dyno is tho.
Unless I am mistaken it does not show much of a powerband shift, which I would expect with 4 degrees OR advance on the cam? It is still peaking at around 5600 RPM (hp)tho the torque peaks have changed a bit just not what I expected.
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Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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I would ask around on several forums to find someone that my have played around with the E cam.
I see alot of folks playing with the f cam and I have retarded the F cam 4 degrees and added about 700rpm to peak HP production and softened up low end torque a bit, never had it on the dyno this was all at the track and seat of the pants on my buddies S trim car.
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Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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Another thing to remember is that the E cam is a 107/117 cam so I think it will perform best straight up.
Ask 93PONY as he seems to have a better grasp on the science of this.
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Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
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E303 is one of those odd-ball cams. It has Zero advance ground in. It's a 110ICL / 110ECL.
In all-motor setups I tested retarding the E303 from 'straight up' to 4 & 6 degrees retard & found no MPH at the dragstrip. The cars did idle better however. Boosted it'll be worth some HP as it will move the power band UP slightly, which will allow a touch more boost.....as boost is dependand on RPM with an SC setup. It will also flatten out the TQ curve a bit....but not 50FT/LBS.
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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
E303 is one of those odd-ball cams. It has Zero advance ground in. It's a 110ICL / 110ECL.
In all-motor setups I tested retarding the E303 from 'straight up' to 4 & 6 degrees retard & found no MPH at the dragstrip. The cars did idle better however. Boosted it'll be worth some HP as it will move the power band UP slightly, which will allow a touch more boost.....as boost is dependand on RPM with an SC setup. It will also flatten out the TQ curve a bit....but not 50FT/LBS.
I put this setup together hoping for a stout combo that I didn't have to spin super high to have a lot of fun with. Bob Kurgan is going to do a base tune for me, and then I will probably go and get the car tuned on the dyno somewhere as soon as everything is broken in. I've basically posted this because a few people have told me that I need to go bigger on my heads, my intake, and my cam because of the added displacement of the 331. With the performer heads, the performer intake, and the E cam is my 331 going to run out of air too early? I didn't want to go bigger on all the other components because I didn't want to have to rev the motor to make power. A huge horsepower number or quick et is not really my goal with this car, but just a fun and quick (seat of the pants) car. That, and I want to try the whole drifting thing...so I figured that the more torque the better, but I still want to be able to pull away from a stop light without lighting the tires up if I need to be inconspicuous.
[ December 09, 2008, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Casey90GT ]
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Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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TOPnotch
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Member # 1340
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I like to run the E cams straigt up as well. I have one in both my 5.0 cars. The E cam makes really good mid range power, it does tend to fall off a little on the top end. My car with and E cam pulls hard to about 5600-5800 it will turn 6000 but it doesn't really like it. If your looking for a higher rpm cam I would go with the f cam. They work pretty well in the suercharged cars.
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Posts: 2255 | From: Hayward | Registered: May 2002
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95331StrimVert
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Member # 6250
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My old S-trim 331 had the e303 retarded 4degress. It was awesome and made great power. 490 rwhp tuned by Byron. I still have the chip, air meter with the SC calibration and injectors for that setup. All was awesome until I split the block.
However, if you looking for sound advice do what Shaun recommends. He is a straight talker who lives this stuff day in and day out.
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95331StrimVert
Posts: 398 | From: Martinez ca | Registered: Nov 2005
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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quote:
Originally posted by 95331StrimVert:
My old S-trim 331 had the e303 retarded 4degress. It was awesome and made great power. 490 rwhp tuned by Byron. I still have the chip, air meter with the SC calibration and injectors for that setup. All was awesome until I split the block.
However, if you looking for sound advice do what Shaun recommends. He is a straight talker who lives this stuff day in and day out.
How was the idle, and did it smog? How much torque did the engine make, and what other mods did you have?
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Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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CobramanPhil
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Member # 2170
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Is there a problem going with a custom cam or are you sticking with the e303?
[ December 13, 2008, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
Posts: 1016 | From: California, Bay Area | Registered: Dec 2002
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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I could go custom, but I'm already going to make way more power than I ever intended with this setup. I guess if I could trade some torque for horsepower, keep everything under 6k rpm, and still pass smog with flying colors then a custom cam might make sense.
For what it's worth, in Desktop Dyno, I ran every comp cams hydraulic roller in the Magnum, Xtreme Energy, Blower, and Nitrous lines, and every one of them made more torque than I already have. Some of them kept peak horsepower where it is, with the added torque (which I don't want), and the rest of them raised the horsepower beyond where I want to rev the motor. I also ran specs on two custom ground 331 blower cams that I have laying around and on both of them I got even more torque.
I think that the massive torque, low horsepower numbers come from my supercharger (Novi1220), which according to Paxton spools really fast and makes a ton of boost down low. Even with the F cam, DD shows a substantial increase in torque over my current combo.
[ December 13, 2008, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Casey90GT ]
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Some day I'll finish it.
Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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bwkelley76
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Member # 8792
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First of all I want to say good choice on the 331, it's a great motor combo and it should last you a long time if you take care of it.
This may sound crazy but it sounds like for what you want you need to lose the blower or run less boost. Either way you definitely may want to reconsider your camshaft.
A little history on me if you're weary... My theory on things comes from my experience with both of my factory supercharged Lightning trucks as well as experience from joint efforts with few of my buddies I've built boosted race motors with.
Bare with me here and by no means am I trying to say anyone is wrong or crazy. This is just my take on things. Lets compare apples to apples here first of all.
If you look at a stock Ford Lightning truck @ 8-10psi, (fairly comparable to a 331 with a stock to mild cam and decent flowing heads and a blower) ..similar to your combo minus the cam
They make 450 lb/ft of torque and 380 hp with 8-10 PSI bone stock. Bump the PSI up to about 12-14 with a good tune and free flowing exhaust, and you get closer to 500+ Lb/ft and 430+ horsepower.
GREAT numbers for a basically stock 331 with some boost and decent flowing heads, and the power curve on those beasts is 1500-6000, just what you want.
What I'm trying to say is you may be better off using torque to your advantage with those small heads and changing things to put the torque to the ground "as-is" instead of tweaking parts that may not be ideal for your application. When used to your benefit torque is a lot of fun and it wins races.
Unfortunately if you want a blower you're going to have torque. Boost builds torque plain and simple. So why try to get rid of it? ..Just a question, and I know you're concerned about breaking things, we all are.
I'm not a big fan of the E-cam, it's too radical for a boost setup in my personal opinion and in combination with a blower its just poopoo. Too much separation and duration. You're probably better off with a closer to stock cam or one that is meant for boost like a Crane Powermax or maybe one of the trick-flows. Shoot, a stock 5.0 cam and 1.7 rockers works damn good with a blower when building a "budget streeter" (been there, done that)
You need to set your motor up to make power under the circumstances the blower is intended or its just a waste of a blower. Otherwise the boost is just worthless.
By putting too large of a cam or retarding one that's meant to run "straight up" you will be bleeding off your boost at mid-range rpm and then hoping the cam takes over at the top. Unfortunately at the rpm you plan on shifting at the e-cam wont have a chance to be effective at all if it's retarded too much.
I'd say retarded 4 degrees the E-cam wont make good power until about 3300 rpm's or higher, and that makes for a short power curve when you're shifting at 58-6000.
Here's what I think will happen, your blower will make up a bit for the lost bottom end torque from the cam being too large and too far advanced, and then the car will fall on its face somewhere in the middle, and then you might get a little kick at about 5500 rpms from the cam, then it will be time to shift and your heads may not flow much above 6-6500 anyway. (just a guess)
You'd probably be better off with no blower and a better cam if that's the outcome and it very well may be.
I can see how retarding the cam might work as a band-aid for over-camming (sorta) but I'd seriously consider changing cams and get something more boost-friendly with a lower duration maybe a 112 LSA and higher lift.
This would allow for the most horsepower and torque from 1500 rpm all the way up to 6. Then you can focus on the fun stuff like tuning, suspension, and boost control, etc.
Good luck, hope this helps. Just tryin to steer ya in the right direction, not trying to be a know it all. Just a few things I've learned from experience. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
BK
[ December 30, 2008, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
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Dont sweat the petty things and dont pet the sweaty things. "RIP George Carlin"
Posts: 886 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Dec 2008
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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quote:
Originally posted by bwkelley76:
First of all I want to say good choice on the 331, it's a great motor combo and it should last you a long time if you take care of it.
This may sound crazy but it sounds like for what you want you need to lose the blower or run less boost. Either way you definitely may want to reconsider your camshaft.
A little history on me if you're weary... My theory on things comes from my experience with both of my factory supercharged Lightning trucks as well as experience from joint efforts with few of my buddies I've built boosted race motors with.
Bare with me here and by no means am I trying to say anyone is wrong or crazy. This is just my take on things. Lets compare apples to apples here first of all.
If you look at a stock Ford Lightning truck @ 8-10psi, (fairly comparable to a 331 with a stock to mild cam and decent flowing heads and a blower) ..similar to your combo minus the cam
They make 450 lb/ft of torque and 380 hp with 8-10 PSI bone stock. Bump the PSI up to about 12-14 with a good tune and free flowing exhaust, and you get closer to 500+ Lb/ft and 430+ horsepower.
GREAT numbers for a basically stock 331 with some boost and decent flowing heads, and the power curve on those beasts is 1500-6000, just what you want.
What I'm trying to say is you may be better off using torque to your advantage with those small heads and changing things to put the torque to the ground "as-is" instead of tweaking parts that may not be ideal for your application. When used to your benefit torque is a lot of fun and it wins races.
Unfortunately if you want a blower you're going to have torque. Boost builds torque plain and simple. So why try to get rid of it? ..Just a question, and I know you're concerned about breaking things, we all are.
I'm not a big fan of the E-cam, it's too radical for a boost setup in my personal opinion and in combination with a blower its just poopoo. Too much separation and duration. You're probably better off with a closer to stock cam or one that is meant for boost like a Crane Powermax or maybe one of the trick-flows. Shoot, a stock 5.0 cam and 1.7 rockers works damn good with a blower when building a "budget streeter" (been there, done that)
You need to set your motor up to make power under the circumstances the blower is intended or its just a waste of a blower. Otherwise the boost is just worthless.
By putting too large of a cam or retarding one that's meant to run "straight up" you will be bleeding off your boost at mid-range rpm and then hoping the cam takes over at the top. Unfortunately at the rpm you plan on shifting at the e-cam wont have a chance to be effective at all if it's retarded too much.
I'd say retarded 4 degrees the E-cam wont make good power until about 3300 rpm's or higher, and that makes for a short power curve when you're shifting at 58-6000.
Here's what I think will happen, your blower will make up a bit for the lost bottom end torque from the cam being too large and too far advanced, and then the car will fall on its face somewhere in the middle, and then you might get a little kick at about 5500 rpms from the cam, then it will be time to shift and your heads may not flow much above 6-6500 anyway. (just a guess)
You'd probably be better off with no blower and a better cam if that's the outcome and it very well may be.
I can see how retarding the cam might work as a band-aid for over-camming (sorta) but I'd seriously consider changing cams and get something more boost-friendly with a lower duration maybe a 112 LSA and higher lift.
This would allow for the most horsepower and torque from 1500 rpm all the way up to 6. Then you can focus on the fun stuff like tuning, suspension, and boost control, etc.
Good luck, hope this helps. Just tryin to steer ya in the right direction, not trying to be a know it all. Just a few things I've learned from experience.
BK
Definately NOT an Apples to Apples comparison. Here's why:
Pushrod 331 = 4.03" bore x 3.25" stroke
Modular 330 = 3.552" bore x 4.16" stroke
What these translates to is Piston speed.
Piston speed is Stroke x RPM... EI, one revolution of the motor moves the piston in a 3.25" stroke 6.5 inches total, but the same 1 revolution on the Modular moves the piston 8.32 inches. The more piston speed you have, the more it'll pull airflow through the heads & therefore max them out faster. Which means low power at higher RPM's if your heads flow a maximum of 180-200cfm (like a 2V head).
Edelbrock performer heads flow significantly more air BTW.
HP is TQ at RPM
The big difference in these 2 setups is the blower. A Roots/twin screw blower makes boost NOW....peak boost at peak TQ. It's common to get within 2psi of peak boost at 2K RPM. They are also RPM limited. There comes an RPM point at which the motor will use MORE air than the blower can push. (An engine uses air exponentially as RPM incrases, a Roots blower pushes air linarly as RPM increases) Hence the reason for using a large blower (blower displacement 40-50% of the engine displacement is common).
A centrifical on the other hand makes boost with RPM. On a 10psi setup, you'd be lucky to make 2psi at 3K RPM. Which means as RPM Increases, so does boost, and therefore power. This is why a centrifical blower is a poor choice for a low RPM torque monster motor you'd find in a heavy truck.
The Performer heads/intake, E Cam & S-trim combo is an old tried & true setup. It will very easily max out the power potential of the block. These combo's are capable of 10's in the 1/4 mile on pump gas.
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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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bwkelley76
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Member # 8792
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Ok not "exactly" apples to apples here but not really apples to oranges either. Good enough for an example of torque and numbers, etc.
I'm not all that experienced with the S-trim versus the Eaton, however I am experienced with what happens when you "over-cam" a motor in combination with a blower. Also retarding the E-cam too much could result in tapping the exhaust valve in to the piston, especially if 1.7 rockers are used.
Good to hear that the S-Trim and E-Cam work well together. Personally I'd rather use a better cam.
I can't argue with the numbers you mention assuming you're speaking from experience. I'm interested in more info on retarding an e-cam versus using a better cam out of the box and I think that's what this thread is about?
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Dont sweat the petty things and dont pet the sweaty things. "RIP George Carlin"
Posts: 886 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Dec 2008
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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Yes, another camshaft CAN make significantly more power....been there, done that. Here's a rundown on what else is needed for an aggressive custom camshaft using Comp XE lobes:
Comp 917 or 953 valvesprings: $159
Comp TI retainers: $309
Ideally, Seemless chromoly pushrods (not just chromoly): $139
Custom cam: $325
Quality rocker arms, not cast aluminum 1.72 Crane/Cobra units. $259+
or
A $149 E303 that will work with stock Edelbrock springs, retainers, standard chromoly pushrods (even stock pushrods) & Cast 1.72 rockers.
Point is quite mute in this application..... You see, the stock 302 roller block has a limit of around 500RWHP (I twisted mine at 430RW with a stock camshaft). A STOCK camshaft with this combo can make enough power to split this block down the middle.
In most cases guys are simply looking to throw in a decently matched camshaft at a very reasonable price. Hence the E303 with 1.7's. A B303 with 1.7's will make more power & work with the current setup. An X303 with 1.6's is a great alternative as well, although the specs are very similar to a B303 with 1.7's. An F303 is a nice choice as well.....as is the Z303, a TFS1, Crane 2030 & 2031, etc, etc. All will make within 25HP of each other at the same boost/timing, work with the given combo and make enough power to split the block in half.
All these camshafts are so small, piston to valve is definately not an issue.
As far as OverCamming goes.... The smaller the parts, the larger the camshaft needed to get the air through the motor. Good flowing components don't *need* as big of a camshaft to make the same power. & I've yet to over cam any of these pushrod motors. Modulars on the other hand, yes, most definately. Totally different animal. Modular Fords are basically V8 Motorcycle engines...& therefore don't respond well to 'old school pushrod' style camshafts.
No offence, but the 2 engine platforms are far more different than most realize.
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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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bwkelley76
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Member # 8792
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In mechanical theory YES pushrod motors are different from modular motors and you are right. However horsepower and torque have similar theories when it comes to boost versus camshaft profile, and of course we can't forget the other parts and how well things flow, etc.
For the sake of this thread and to answer his question, we both already answered it. A better cam will make better desired power rather than "band-aiding" and retarding the E-Cam a ton. I also wouldn't compare the modular motor to a motorcycle engine, now thats comparing apples to oranges. At least I was comparing a v8 to a v8. ..by the way I'm not trying to be a know it all or to undermine you at all, you obviously know what you're talking about and I hope the thread starter appreciated your theory as much as I do (wait, who was he again?..lol)
It's not about us man, its about giving him some good advice. Hopefully between the lot of us here we can send him in the right direction.
Happy Holidays and good luck.
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Posts: 886 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Dec 2008
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Casey90GT
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No worries bwkelley76 & 93PONY...I really appreciate all the different ideas and view points. I guess what I was really worried about here is making too much power down low to drive the car, and somebodies "Transmission Killer" comment a few posts earlier made me cringe a bit too.
I'm not really concerned with making more power, but do either of you care to weigh in on whether or not the stock cam may be more driveable than the E-cam, or is it going to raise my low rpm torque even more? For what it's worth, the tech guys at Paxton said that the Novi-1220 (which is what I have) is basically an S-trim, but it has a smaller impeller that makes less overall boost, but builds it way faster. They said that I should have peak boost by 3,500 rpms.
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Some day I'll finish it.
Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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With the stock GT cam & 1.72 rockers in a 331 with my TT setup I made 430RWHP @ 4800RPM & 507RWTQ @ 3500RPM.
Thats all it took to twist the stock block. Also destroyed 2 clutches, but the Tremec 3550 survived.....till I gave it a little more boost. The 3550 ended up with no teeth on 3rd gear.
For transmission survival, you're going to want a clutch that does NOT hit hard. No SPEC clutches.... Pro-Motion using an extra springy (is that a word?) plate between the front & rear of the disk. This extra "give" when the clutch is engaged (hammer dropped) acts like a cushion for the drivetrain. Spec clutchs do not have this plate.
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Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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bwkelley76
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Member # 8792
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First off I'm a fan of the 331 as I'm sure you noticed from my earlier posts. What a lot of people don't realize is the 331 is a "buzz" motor and the bottom end has a great rod to stroke ratio and can handle well over 6000 rpm continuously. The larger cubes and the more desirable geometry ads torque as well so a lot of people wonder why anyone would want to raise the rpm. A 347 is another story, designed for torque only and not my favorite combo.
If I were in your position and I was "stuck" with using the E-Cam I would run it straight up. If I wanted more rpm and less torque I would think about 2-4 degrees retarded. It's not the worst advice but I'm a little sketchy. If I had another 180-250 bucks I'd invest in a cam that would perform better straight-up that has a better lobe profile. WIth a blower you're going to need a more aggressive exhaust profile to get rid of all that compressed air. If you're worried about the "smog-legal" aspect I'd look into the Crane powermax and compucams, etc. Retarding the E-Cam may cause issues with smog as the valve timing may activate too late resulting in High HC and CO.
Stock cam will add low-end "off-idle" torque, lots of it, starting at about 1500-1800 rpm and peaking at around 3000-3250. The E-Cam is good for torque starting at about 2500-3000 rpm peaking at about 4250 (If my memory serves me right). ..Once retarded the E-cam's torque curve should raise a bit and it may shave off some maximum torque, I'd have to guess closer to 3200-5000 would be your torque curve retarded 4 degrees. Without the blower that thing would be a DOG on the street with a retarded E-Cam.
The "off-Idle" torque is what kills transmissions and drivelines but it's also the "seat of your pants" feeling that everyone likes and also what wins races from light to light. Of course it depends on your combo as well. Gears can make a huge difference of torque to the wheels and how fast it gets there.
Also instead of retarding the E-cam have you ever thought about using a B-Cam or an F cam? I've heard of folks having good luck with those as well. If you research it they give you a little different torque curve than the E-Cam.
Personally I like the lopey idle you get from the E-Cam assuming the computer doesnt have issues with it causing surging at idle. -sometimes the stock PCM doesn't like the E-Cam though.
The E-Cam comes in HARD at about 2700 rpms from my experience and keeps pulling pretty hard up to 5500-6000.
I'd be interested to see how well the E-Cam and the S-trim work together, especially with the cam retarded. Honestly I'd still just run it straight-up and try that first with the blower. If it has too much torque for you then retard it later. It might just work retarded but I think you will be disappointed in the low-mid-range performance.
We can talk theory all we want but nothing speaks louder than reality testing. In my reality testing I've seen more driveable and usable torque come from some of the higher-dollar Crane, TFS, and Lunati cams especially when coupled with a blower.
Hope this helps and good luck.
[ January 03, 2009, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
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Dont sweat the petty things and dont pet the sweaty things. "RIP George Carlin"
Posts: 886 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Dec 2008
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Casey90GT
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Member # 6175
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quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
With the stock GT cam & 1.72 rockers in a 331 with my TT setup I made 430RWHP @ 4800RPM & 507RWTQ @ 3500RPM.
Thats all it took to twist the stock block.
How much boost were you running and how conservative was the tune? Do you know what went wrong?
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Some day I'll finish it.
Posts: 1064 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Nov 2005
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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quote:
Originally posted by Casey90GT:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
With the stock GT cam & 1.72 rockers in a 331 with my TT setup I made 430RWHP @ 4800RPM & 507RWTQ @ 3500RPM.
Thats all it took to twist the stock block.
How much boost were you running and how conservative was the tune? Do you know what went wrong?
91 pump crap tune, 17 or 19 degrees total timing (can't remember).
What went wrong..... 7psi on a dynojet, 11psi at the track. It was tuned on the dyno by Byron when he was still tuning. Detonation HAMMERS main caps....which most definately contributed to the block twisting. That, plus who knows how much more power it made at the track with 4psi more boost. If 7psi on a stock headed 331 made 430/507 & probably 250/300RW at best on motor....180/200RW from 7psi, another 4psi *should* have netted a significant amount of additional power.
Hey, bwkelly76, you need to spend more time over here reading up: http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/
That whole 331 vs 347 *rod to stroke ratio* crap is LONG out dated. Not to mention your theory on a 331 making more HP & spinning more RPM than a 347... Case in point: There's 2 all-motor 347 that make far more than any N/A 331 around here.....both TQ & HP. In fact, they make more HP than TQ....which means more RPM. (they peak at 6500RPM & make over 440RWHP on pump gas). And no, they don't run an 'E' cam. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Oh.....& try this one on for size. One of those 347's runs a 5.315" rod with a 3.4" stroke.
Ah hell.....here, read this, then do a search on Rod to stroke ratio's on that site.
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46229&highlight=rod+ratio
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by bwkelley76:
First off I'm a fan of the 331 as I'm sure you noticed from my earlier posts. What a lot of people don't realize is the 331 is a "buzz" motor and the bottom end has a great rod to stroke ratio and can handle well over 6000 rpm continuously. The larger cubes and the more desirable geometry ads torque as well so a lot of people wonder why anyone would want to raise the rpm. A 347 is another story, designed for torque only and not my favorite combo.
HP = (TQ x RPM)/5252
Horsepower is Torque at RPM. You can't make HP without Torque.....
Therefore, a 347 that makes more Torque will make more Horsepower. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Casey, also take into acount that the 4800RPM peak HP on my 331 was with stock GT40 Iron heads (mild portwork) and a stock Cobra intake (ported lower). Your E-bock heads & intake will add RPM capability as will the S-trim since it makes more boost as RPM increases. How much extra RPM is the question. (400 or 500 maybe???)
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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