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Author
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Topic: boost 93 vs 96 cobra
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Mach916
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Member # 8264
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posted
 
 
how well does a 93 cobra take boost?? compared to a 96 cobra?? i know a good amount about the 4 valves but i have no clue on 5.0s.. so can someone enlighten me ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 1247 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Mar 2008
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CornOil_&_Boost
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Member # 5888
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mach916:
how well does a 93 cobra take boost?? compared to a 96 cobra?? i know a good amount about the 4 valves but i have no clue on 5.0s.. so can someone enlighten me
All factors being equal; right fuel parts, right tune, etc...you can live on 10 pounds for a long time....
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'95 Cobra - small engine / small turbo -
'02 Excursion 7.3 - tow vehicle
'14 - Chevy Volt - DD
Posts: 5097 | Registered: Jul 2005
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
Ran 10-11 psi on my stock engine as a daily driver for 3 years. No issues. It's all in the tune...
Compared to a 96 Cobra? There is no comparison. A stock mod 4.6 will not survive, I don't care who does the tune.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6525 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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91 5.0 5speed
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Member # 1867
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Ran 10-11 psi on my stock engine as a daily driver for 3 years. No issues. It's all in the tune...
Compared to a 96 Cobra? There is no comparison. A stock mod 4.6 will not survive, I don't care who does the tune.
what about an 03-04 Cobra? LOL ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1383 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
2 different schools of thought.
Both platforms can make serious power when boosted & built correctly.
As far as stock vs stock for bottom end strength goes... Here's how much power each component can take given a proper tune with enough octane:
5.0:
block - 500hp
crank - 600hp
rods - 500-600 (haven't seen many break)
pistons - 500hp or so, they are NOT forged
Compression ratio: 9 to 1 (safe for 10-12psi on pump 91)
96-98 4.6:
block - 1500hp (possibly more)
crank - 1000hp
rods - ~450ish (first years of powdered iron rods....they break easily)
pistons - 500hp (same material as 5.0 pistons)
Compression ratio: 10 to 1 if I'm not mistaken...which means 6-8psi max.....& even then it's dangerous to run on pump gas.
That being said, 6-8psi on a stock 96-98 Cobra motor will make around the same power as a 93 cobra with 10-12psi. However, the 93 cobra is lighter, and will make more TQ.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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9cobra7
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Member # 2812
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posted
Stock for stock, the 4 valves love boost and respond better. You can run a reliable 440 hp to the wheels on the 4 valve cobra. But like others have said here, tune tune tune. Don't go cheap on that!!
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If you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, don't walk.
Posts: 2633 | From: usa | Registered: May 2003
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Luke87GT
Lay'n more stripes
than Caltrans
Member # 21
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posted
93 Pony - The man always brings quantifiable facts to the table. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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Stangless
Posts: 7802 | From: San Mateo | Registered: Jul 2000
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9cobra7
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Member # 2812
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Ran 10-11 psi on my stock engine as a daily driver for 3 years. No issues. It's all in the tune...
Compared to a 96 Cobra? There is no comparison. A stock mod 4.6 will not survive, I don't care who does the tune.
Not true about the 4 valve cobras. I know a few guys who ROAD RACE Vorteched 4 valves. Do you know how much heat you build up at 6k RPM 30 minutes at a time? A tremendous amount. They haven't had any issues as long as it is tuned correctly. They are surviving just fine which is why I bought my Vortech kit but unfortunitely crashed the car and did not get to install it. The compression on those motors is under 10:1 and I think 9.8:1 but you can't boost the hell out of it until you do the pistons and rods. This is fact!
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If you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, don't walk.
Posts: 2633 | From: usa | Registered: May 2003
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Gnari-Garage
CAFords OG
Member # 3164
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posted
Look 4 valve motors can't handle boost! I know so many people that supercharged a 4-valve and well long story short the motor went BOOM even with a good TUNE!
I personally destroyed a 96 cobra motor with 9 psi and an intercooler.
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2017 McLaren 570GT
2019 Audi S5
2017 Tundra 7" Lift, 37" Tires
Posts: 4017 | From: 916-sacramento | Registered: Aug 2003
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Mach916
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Member # 8264
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
2 different schools of thought.
Both platforms can make serious power when boosted & built correctly.
As far as stock vs stock for bottom end strength goes... Here's how much power each component can take given a proper tune with enough octane:
5.0:
block - 500hp
crank - 600hp
rods - 500-600 (haven't seen many break)
pistons - 500hp or so, they are NOT forged
Compression ratio: 9 to 1 (safe for 10-12psi on pump 91)
96-98 4.6:
block - 1500hp (possibly more)
crank - 1000hp
rods - ~450ish (first years of powdered iron rods....they break easily)
pistons - 500hp (same material as 5.0 pistons)
Compression ratio: 10 to 1 if I'm not mistaken...which means 6-8psi max.....& even then it's dangerous to run on pump gas.
That being said, 6-8psi on a stock 96-98 Cobra motor will make around the same power as a 93 cobra with 10-12psi. However, the 93 cobra is lighter, and will make more TQ.
thanks very good info
Posts: 1247 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Mar 2008
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9cobra7
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Member # 2812
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by NavidR:
Look 4 valve motors can't handle boost! I know so many people that supercharged a 4-valve and well long story short the motor went BOOM even with a good TUNE!
I personally destroyed a 96 cobra motor with 9 psi and an intercooler.
What you say doesn't make any sense. "So many people and with cobra motors and ONE went boom"...huh. Also you are selling a 540 hp cobra. Hmm, thats seems like good hp to me and it's boosted... I don't get it. You say these cars can't handle boost?I know that when Apex Motorsports was a real shop back in the day before it went through two other owners, the 96-98 Vortech boosted cars that came out of there never grenaded like the people you seem to know. Those cars you speak of OBVIOUSLY weren't tuned properly. I don't know man...I see 03-04 cobras running 500 to the wheels all the time and there 4 valves. It's like popeye to spinach as far as I'm concerned. Unless it's not tuned, proper fuel and not over boosted with stock internals, you shouldn't have any issues. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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If you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, don't walk.
Posts: 2633 | From: usa | Registered: May 2003
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94gt
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Member # 3060
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Ran 10-11 psi on my stock engine as a daily driver for 3 years. No issues. It's all in the tune...
I LOVE your 93 Cobra man... ![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by NavidR:
Look 4 valve motors can't handle boost! I know so many people that supercharged a 4-valve and well long story short the motor went BOOM even with a good TUNE!
Are you talking about n/a 4 valves? If that's not the case, my motor is supposedly due to let go about 2 years ago? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ![[dance]](graemlins/dance.gif)
OP: a 93 Cobra is badass in it's own right... s/c it... and it's a beast. Need proof? Look at JohnB's 93 Cobra. Once you do... /thread
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2020 Explorer ST
2011 Silver Raptor 'Screw
Posts: 5777 | From: Beavercreek, OH | Registered: Jul 2003
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Mach916
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Member # 8264
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posted
johnb has more into it then just a supercharger.. i dont think its a fair comparison.. i know i prolly going to get flamed for this but i know na they dont make that great of power... but what is it about the 93cobra that makes it so good to supercharge?? is it just compression?? also i know the tranny is weak not that the t45 is super stong but it can handle power fine just needs a short throw with stoppers. im just trying to learn more about a 93cobra because in the future might want to pick one up.. maybe a project car
Posts: 1247 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Mar 2008
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Mach916
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Member # 8264
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posted
[ January 09, 2009, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Mach916 ]
Posts: 1247 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Mar 2008
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mach916:
johnb has more into it then just a supercharger.. i dont think its a fair comparison..
The comparison I gave you was JUST a supercharger. When I bought my car, all the stock components were still in place (engine-related). A 302 vs 4.6 4v (NOT a 03-04 bottom end, or even a built 96-01 bottom end) is a no-brainer. Will the rods or pistons hold up on a 4.6? No, they will not. I'm talking STOCK for STOCK. Sorry to say, but a 302 has a 4.6 2v/4v beat when it comes to the durability dept when a power adder is put into the mix. Yes, I'm sure there are 96-01 4.6 4v setups out there running 6psi, big friggin' fuel systems, and 14* total timing being flogged on tracks all day long. I dunno about you, but if I spent 3k+ on a supercharger setup only to see about 90hp out of it because I wanna be "safe", well...you wasted your damn money, plain and simple.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6525 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
I see 03-04 cobras running 500 to the wheels all the time and they're 4 valves.
I'm sure you do. Just a FYI, we're talking about 96's...you know, the ones with shit rods and pistons...not the forged piston/Manley rod setup you speak of. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6525 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gnari-Garage
CAFords OG
Member # 3164
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
I see 03-04 cobras running 500 to the wheels all the time and they're 4 valves.
I'm sure you do. Just a FYI, we're talking about 96's...you know, the ones with shit rods and pistons...not the forged piston/Manley rod setup you speak of.
Here is a good example my 96 cobra!
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2017 McLaren 570GT
2019 Audi S5
2017 Tundra 7" Lift, 37" Tires
Posts: 4017 | From: 916-sacramento | Registered: Aug 2003
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9cobra7
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Member # 2812
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by Mach916:
johnb has more into it then just a supercharger.. i dont think its a fair comparison..
The comparison I gave you was JUST a supercharger. When I bought my car, all the stock components were still in place (engine-related). A 302 vs 4.6 4v (NOT a 03-04 bottom end, or even a built 96-01 bottom end) is a no-brainer. Will the rods or pistons hold up on a 4.6? No, they will not. I'm talking STOCK for STOCK. Sorry to say, but a 302 has a 4.6 2v/4v beat when it comes to the durability dept when a power adder is put into the mix. Yes, I'm sure there are 96-01 4.6 4v setups out there running 6psi, big friggin' fuel systems, and 14* total timing being flogged on tracks all day long. I dunno about you, but if I spent 3k+ on a supercharger setup only to see about 90hp out of it because I wanna be "safe", well...you wasted your damn money, plain and simple.
John I see what your saying but your off by 100 horses and some false info. The cars I speak of (which are still at the track) are running 430 to 440 at the wheels. If my math is correct that translates 500 crank horse power. These engines came from the factory with 305. Thats a little more than a 90 hp gain. I'm not just whistling in the wind with my numbers. I've seen it over and over again which is why I purchased the Vortech kit for my car. I did years of waiting and research to make sure if I spend 5k on a blower kit it's gonna be worth it. This is running 8-9 psi to acheive this which is SAFE as long (once again) that it's tuned properly. It requires 42 lb injectors, larger mass air and more fuel. And again I reiterate these cars run on the road race circuits and STILL didn't blow up. If these can take that much heat and survive they certainly can take street driving with absolutely no problems. Just take a drive with Griggs GT demo car. It has the same crap pistons and rods in there as mine and its seen more track time than my car in 8 years. It's running strong with a Paxton blower and 430 hp at the wheels.
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If you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, don't walk.
Posts: 2633 | From: usa | Registered: May 2003
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by Mach916:
johnb has more into it then just a supercharger.. i dont think its a fair comparison..
The comparison I gave you was JUST a supercharger. When I bought my car, all the stock components were still in place (engine-related). A 302 vs 4.6 4v (NOT a 03-04 bottom end, or even a built 96-01 bottom end) is a no-brainer. Will the rods or pistons hold up on a 4.6? No, they will not. I'm talking STOCK for STOCK. Sorry to say, but a 302 has a 4.6 2v/4v beat when it comes to the durability dept when a power adder is put into the mix. Yes, I'm sure there are 96-01 4.6 4v setups out there running 6psi, big friggin' fuel systems, and 14* total timing being flogged on tracks all day long. I dunno about you, but if I spent 3k+ on a supercharger setup only to see about 90hp out of it because I wanna be "safe", well...you wasted your damn money, plain and simple.
John I see what your saying but your off by 100 horses and some false info. The cars I speak of (which are still at the track) are running 430 to 440 at the wheels. If my math is correct that translates 500 crank horse power. These engines came from the factory with 305. Thats a little more than a 90 hp gain. I'm not just whistling in the wind with my numbers. I've seen it over and over again which is why I purchased the Vortech kit for my car. I did years of waiting and research to make sure if I spend 5k on a blower kit it's gonna be worth it. This is running 8-9 psi to acheive this which is SAFE as long (once again) that it's tuned properly. It requires 42 lb injectors, larger mass air and more fuel. And again I reiterate these cars run on the road race circuits and STILL didn't blow up. If these can take that much heat and survive they certainly can take street driving with absolutely no problems. Just take a drive with Griggs GT demo car. It has the same crap pistons and rods in there as mine and its seen more track time than my car in 8 years. It's running strong with a Paxton blower and 430 hp at the wheels.
The track cars you speak of run race gas. That is a HUGE factor for durability.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Gnari-Garage
CAFords OG
Member # 3164
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posted
9cobra7,
Look we can go on and on about stats and how your buddies cars are running good. This is the fact: if you supercharge a cobra motor, its going to blow in time, and trust me I know lots of people with GT/Cobra and it always ends up with the same ending "A BLOWN MOTOR"- a good tune is important to help the motor last long.
Hey I had a 94 5.0, I went through about 30 NOS bottles before it blow, and had the same setup on another car, well the motor went before the first bottle was empty. My point is eventually both motors went.
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2017 McLaren 570GT
2019 Audi S5
2017 Tundra 7" Lift, 37" Tires
Posts: 4017 | From: 916-sacramento | Registered: Aug 2003
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Slow05GT
¯
Member # 8408
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by NavidR:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
I see 03-04 cobras running 500 to the wheels all the time and they're 4 valves.
I'm sure you do. Just a FYI, we're talking about 96's...you know, the ones with shit rods and pistons...not the forged piston/Manley rod setup you speak of.
Here is a good example my 96 cobra!
Dude there is nothing wrong with this motor!! Its suppose to be like that, All that is custom weight reduction duh!! ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posts: 2233 | From: Natomas, ca | Registered: May 2008
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Gnari-Garage
CAFords OG
Member # 3164
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EXcobra/LS1NOW:
quote:
Originally posted by NavidR:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
I see 03-04 cobras running 500 to the wheels all the time and they're 4 valves.
I'm sure you do. Just a FYI, we're talking about 96's...you know, the ones with shit rods and pistons...not the forged piston/Manley rod setup you speak of.
Here is a good example my 96 cobra!
Dude there is nothing wrong with this motor!! Its suppose to be like that, All that is custom weight reduction duh!!
hahaha the funny thing is I had the car towed to my house and I was in kind of a bad mood so I had a friend come over and take a look for me, he jacks my car up and slides under the car and says No problem, we just got to put a piece back in, as he brings a CHUNCK of the block out, I was like OH SHIT
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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2017 McLaren 570GT
2019 Audi S5
2017 Tundra 7" Lift, 37" Tires
Posts: 4017 | From: 916-sacramento | Registered: Aug 2003
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