This is topic suspension question in forum Road Racing, Auto X & Drifting at Northern California Ford Owners  .


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://californiafords.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000366
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
im in the process of upgrading my suspension and getting the finishing pieces together and ready..
what i have so far:
bistien hd struts n shock
racecraft springs
panhard bar
torque arm
racecraft LCAs
mm strut tower n k member brace

those are some of the main things, but my question is how much would i benifit going with coilovers in the front? as far as handling n cornering performance, and also concerned how the car would feel with running a conventional spring in the rear? how well would that work together? would this be ideal for road course and autox?

oh an i would be going maximummotorsports with hypercoil and whatever rate that compilment the bilstiens and be DD friendly.

any opionions are appreciated. thanks cafords [Big Grin]

[ May 29, 2011, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
im in the process of upgrading my suspension and getting the finishing pieces together and ready..
what i have so far:
bistien hd struts n shock
racecraft springs
panhard bar
torque arm
racecraft LCAs
mm strut tower n k member brace

those are some of the main things, but my question is how much would i benifit going with coilovers in the front? as far as handling n cornering performance, and also concerned how the car would feel with running a conventional spring in the rear? how well would that work together? would this be ideal for road course and autox?

oh an i would be going maximummotorsports with hypercoil and whatever rate that compilment the bilstiens and be DD friendly.

any opionions are appreciated. thanks cafords [Big Grin]
I'm no suspension expert but I'll give you my input based on my experience with my previous and current setups...

What spring rate are the Racecraft springs? You are going to need a much stiffer rear spring with the torque arm setup. Go on Maximum Motorsports' website and they sell the T/A specific springs.

You should add full length subframe connectors and caster/camber plates to the car if you dont already have them.

Coilover's in the front and conventional springs in the rear are what MM actually recommend for street cars. They said the rear coilovers will end up getting damaged if you're constantly going up speed bumps, driveways, and everyday bumps/dips in the road. Depending on the spring rate of the front coilovers, you'll need something stiff in the rear to balance it out. I'd call MM to ask what spring rates they recommend.

The Bilstein HD's should be fine up to a certain spring rate (I'm not sure what the max is). You can then upgrade to the race valved Bilsteins that MM sells. I believe my Bilsteins are HD's and I'm running coilovers at all four corners. It feels fine for me omn the track. I rarely drive the car on the streets nowadays but when I do its not too bad, but its definitely stiff.

I hope this helps you a little bit [patriot]
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
thank you SydeWaySix it was very helpfull, i didnt know that about the rear coilovers with a daily drivin car which is wat it is but will also be tracked on occasion.
my main concern was running conventional in rear with coilover in front so thats good to hear that mm reccomends that on street lol.
and to answer your questions i dont know the rates of the racecraft springs there original but i will prolly call mm to see what rear spring they recomend. thanks again SydeWaySix!

[ May 29, 2011, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
Good read on Mustang Suspension is "Mustang Performance hand book 2" by William R. Mathis, it;s older but covers all types of suspension setups including Street, drag, Autocross and road race.

[ May 30, 2011, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: BIzKitBrAIn ]
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
Good read on Mustang Suspension is "Mustang Performance hand book 2" by William R. Mathis, it;s older but covers all types of suspension setups including Street, drag, Autocross and road race.
thnx ima check that out.
 
Posted by Rio1999GT (Member # 9231) on :
 
I have coilovers on all four on my DD. It's definitely stiff, but not that bad. I was told that it'll smooth out once I get the final rear suspension part; torque arm. I think my rear springs are 600lbs
 
Posted by moeofit32 (Member # 10393) on :
 
ive been in cars with coilovers and it was alil tomuch for a dd to me but to each his own
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by moeofit32:
ive been in cars with coilovers and it was alil tomuch for a dd to me but to each his own
I dont think cars with full coilovers realy makes for a "bad ride," but according to maximum motorsports, they do not advise people to run rear coilovers DD's. They're not made to constantly go up driveways, speed bumps, etc. All the little components that create the coil over setup can not take the abuse of "crashing" down on one another when one side of the car goes up an incline and the other is sitting on flat ground.
 
Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
quote:
Originally posted by moeofit32:
ive been in cars with coilovers and it was alil tomuch for a dd to me but to each his own
I dont think cars with full coilovers realy makes for a "bad ride," but according to maximum motorsports, they do not advise people to run rear coilovers DD's. They're not made to constantly go up driveways, speed bumps, etc. All the little components that create the coil over setup can not take the abuse of "crashing" down on one another when one side of the car goes up an incline and the other is sitting on flat ground.
they're fine if you run 'helper springs' which are basically zero spring rate springs that compress down to ~2" and expand up to 6" to take up the slack when going over large pitches which would otherwise unload a rear spring off the collar at the top.


the ride quality of a coil over setup is completely dependant on the spring rate, and shocks/struts used. You can't really compare a coil over car to a traditional spring car and say one rides better than the other without knowing and comparing the spring rates. Whichever has a higher wheel rate is going to ride worse on the street!


To the OP - I would suggest giving MM a call and discuss with the tech line what your goals are with the car, and they'll set you on the right track.

personally on my `89 I run koni DA struts with griggs 400lb coil overs in the front, with koni SA shocks, MM adj. lca's, and MM conventional "torque arm" springs in the rear and the ride is great, I can dial in how soft or firm I want the rebound to be right on the shocks/struts.

It doesn't ride as nice as my DD `97 which has an 03 cobra IRS with 03/04 cobra bilstein shocks/struts and H&R race springs, but that's to be expected!
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
why does running a torque arm set up require stiffer springs? essentially what i did was change from a 4 link rear to 3 link wich the geometry is better i know, but do you need the stiffer springs jus so u can get the "full potential" outta the set up, or does running normal lowering spring not work for some reason?
if i can id like to keep the original 90' saleen racecrafts springs in im guessing there same rate as ebiachs?? im ok with not getting the "maximum full potential" but im not ok if it will result in "poor" or less than good ride quality, ya kno?

[ June 02, 2011, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
My old 95 cobra had a phb/ta setup and for a month or so I retained my H&R Race springs in the rear. These are fairly stiff springs to begin with but with a TA they were waaay too soft. The ride was almost like riding a Cadillac...it'd dip and float and bottom out on big bumps.
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
My old 95 cobra had a phb/ta setup and for a month or so I retained my H&R Race springs in the rear. These are fairly stiff springs to begin with but with a TA they were waaay too soft. The ride was almost like riding a Cadillac...it'd dip and float and bottom out on big bumps.
wow..thats good to know, i will definatley be makin the switch then...
i was planin on callin mm already but i jus wanted to hear from other people and their personal experiences.. thanks for ur input sydewaysix

[ June 02, 2011, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
the ride quality is pretty awesome with normal rate springs, but straight line traction is completely gone because as soon as you step on the gas the rear bottoms out.

it's incredible how much the rear end binds with the stock 4 link setup, getting rid of that bind means you need MUCH stiffer springs!
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blind:
the ride quality is pretty awesome with normal rate springs, but straight line traction is completely gone because as soon as you step on the gas the rear bottoms out.

it's incredible how much the rear end binds with the stock 4 link setup, getting rid of that bind means you need MUCH stiffer springs!
to be honest im pretty excited to see what it feels like with the phb/ta setup. i've never driven a 5.0 nor been in one with it. [dance]

ive heard some pretty incedible things about it though
like "night and day difference"...

and "the part ford forgot"..

"vett killing" performance LOL

[ June 03, 2011, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 




Fueled by Ford Mustang Owners
on CaliforniaFords.com