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Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
I'm wondering how many of you guys with a solid live axle are running around with a torque arm on the street?

What can you say about the straight line traction? How about the ride quality (it's supposed to remove all bind in the rear suspension after ditching the upper control arms).

What about day to day stuff like jacking up the rear of the car, installing exhaust, or dropping the tranny? How much does this thing get in the way?

And lastly, NHV... increases?

Thanks,
Luke
 
Posted by forced331 (Member # 1270) on :
 
I have the Griggs severe duty torque arm, and it is a noticable difference! Removing the driveshaft is a pita! I do not like how the griggs TA attaches to the rear diff cover. Makes it a pain to access the diff! The MM TA looks to be a different design and does not attach to the rear diff cover. It is street friendly, just watch out for those speed bumps.

[ August 17, 2011, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: forced331 ]
 
Posted by DLo (Member # 6133) on :
 
My friend has a Griggs torque arm on his 04. That thing, along with his panhard bar, has made the car a whole different animal. It handles a hell of a lot better compared to stock and is way more predictable (it's a little bit harder to get it to "swang em"). Ride quality - I can't really tell compared to stock. I don't think it rides any different, but I'm not the one daily driving his car. Don't have any experience with dropping the tranny, but he had to have his Bassani catback and x-pipe completely custom modified to fit with everything in there.

If you're looking for a better answer, I guess I can always hit him up tomorrow and ask. All I know is I want to get a Griggs or MM kit on my 94. Hope this helps some. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by fastertoys1 (Member # 5270) on :
 
It's a amazing peice but only works to it's potential with the pan hard bar. Very noticeable straight line traction. Speed bumps and steep drive was area pain!!!
But it's money well invested.
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
I'm wondering how many of you guys with a solid live axle are running around with a torque arm on the street?

What can you say about the straight line traction? How about the ride quality (it's supposed to remove all bind in the rear suspension after ditching the upper control arms).

What about day to day stuff like jacking up the rear of the car, installing exhaust, or dropping the tranny? How much does this thing get in the way?

And lastly, NHV... increases?

Thanks,
Luke
What can I say about, hmmmm...DO IT LUKE!

I had this same conversation with Dustin (Epik)a while back when he still had his Mach 1. I love my MM setup and from what I can tell it works TITS!

1. straight line traction: I can honestly say that the T/A really plants the rearend. When I had my stock setup with just MM LCA's, the rear would get swirly with my 430's. After installing the PHB/TA setup, the rear significantly improved. On hard launches it relaly stays straight, and when it "seems" to want to fishtail, the setup always catches it and corrects it back into a straight line. It works just like MM says it should!

2. Ride quality: I don't know if comfort really improves, but I can honestly say that it's not bad at all. I ran the PHB/TA setup with conventional sprigs for a few months and it was fine. My rear springs were a bit soft and I was running crappy Tokico Illumina shocks so the rearend would come down quite a bit when hitting big dips in the road, but when I had the proper TA springs and Bilsteins on my 95 cobra it worked great for me. The correct rear springs (I suggest H&R Super Race for the street - the white ones) paired with a good set of shocks (I prefer Bilsteins), the ride quality is very DD'able. I now have coilovers on all four corners and the ride quality seems a bit more stiff. It's definitely great for the type of driving I use the car for, but I'd recommend conventional springs for the street.

3. Day to day stuff: The PHB/TA setup definitely gets in the way of jacking the car up in the rear, but it is still possible. If the car is lowered (which your's is) and you have the TA, you'd most likely need a low profile jack. I just roll my rear wheels onto a piece of 1" thick wood and it gets the car high enough to allow my non-low profile jack to get under the TA. I still jack it up underneath the TA but since it's at an angle, you'll just need to be careful and go up slowly.

You'll also need to get your X/H-pipe modified to fit the TA. I've been able to remove my exhaust from the car without removing the TA so removal isn't an issue. I've never dropped the tranny so I can't tell you whether the TA makes it more difficult or not.

As mentioned above, swapping driveshafts is more difficult with the TA in place, but I did it without removing the TA so it's doable. Its not like you'll be swapping DS's all the time anyways!

4. NHV: what does that stand for???

[ August 17, 2011, 01:03 AM: Message edited by: SydeWaySix ]
 
Posted by fastertoys1 (Member # 5270) on :
 
Lol I couldn't answer about NHV cause I don't know what it meant either?
Must be something he picked up from corral.net lol
 
Posted by SSF 50 (Member # 7219) on :
 
i was jus wondering the same thing, does it really make a huge difference wit traction? & when yall say u have 2 get the exust custom u mean just the tail pipe setup or??

[ August 17, 2011, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: SSF 50 ]
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SSF 50:
i was jus wondering the same thing, does it really make a huge difference wit traction? & when yall say u have 2 get the exust custom u mean just the tail pipe setup or??
yes, it makes a night and day difference for traction and rearend control/stability. As for the exhaust, there's usually two things that need to be modified:

1. the H/X-pipe needs to be cut and modified to fit the torque arm's cross member attachment on the MM torque arm

2. the tail pipes "usually" need to be cut and modified to fit with the panhard bar (which is required if you run a torque arm). You can run dumps and avoid this modification.
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Thanks for all the replies guys.

Between the costs, hassles of installs, inconveniences of having the TA/PB get in the way of removal of other things, and ground clearance, the jury is still out on this one...

Ian, perhaps a ride in your car would change my mind, lol.

NHV = Noise, Harshess, Vibration.
 
Posted by fastertoys1 (Member # 5270) on :
 
Don't forget subframe connectors are required before install of the torque arm .
Sydways: mentioning the modifying of the exhaust just reminded me of all the head aches I went through . It's a pricey peice to install not to mention to buy.
TA- $400-600 (used-new) + 200-300 install
SFC $140. + 120 install
Modify exhaust $ 200
not to mention the PHB 200-350 (used-new) + 150 install
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Thanks for all the replies guys.

Between the costs, hassles of installs, inconveniences of having the TA/PB get in the way of removal of other things, and ground clearance, the jury is still out on this one...

Ian, perhaps a ride in your car would change my mind, lol.

NHV = Noise, Harshess, Vibration.
Yea man, I'll take you out on a ride...or better yet, meet me at Infineon next month and take a ride along with me [Big Grin]

NHV: the only noise/vibration that you'll get in addition to what you may already have is that you'll be eliminating the rubber connecting points from the UCA's for solid connecting points...so if you already had/have some kind of noise or vibration, it will be more prominent now. The TA doesn't make the car any more harsh than it may already be as long as you have the correct rear springs rated for the TA and good shocks.

I hear you on the issues you may encounter, but everything is still doable with the TA. I'm not mechanic, but even I can manage to do what I need to do under the car with the PHB/TA in place. Also, I live in a community where there are several speed bumps leading to my house and I dont get any scraping issues...my exhaust scrapes, but that isn't due to the TA. If you are serioulsy interested in getting one installed, I know a guy in Redwood city who did my 95and 98 cobras for a VERY reasonable price.

Fastertoys can vouch for Lupe too [patriot]
 
Posted by fastertoys1 (Member # 5270) on :
 
I have a friend that i believe took Dustin for a ride and helped convince him to buy the set up.
His mach 1 car is equiped with 90% of the MM catalog and he just completed a cobra swap motor built by aed I
Sure hed ove to give you a ride.
 
Posted by wichoms4 (Member # 10900) on :
 
the f-body camaros have that style rear end. love how it rides in my car. i have umi LCA's, umi torque arm n panhard bar.
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
drove a trq arm/panhard bar car..anddd boyy am i jealous..
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
Big difference, never drove with it on the street as it was a "track car"

A Shot of the car on the ground, Griggs P/H T/A

-
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
Big difference, never drove with it on the street as it was a "track car"

A Shot of the car on the ground, Griggs P/H T/A

-
have youuu been doing donuts? [Razz] [patriot]
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Jaejae, I don't think you want one of these for donuts.
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae:
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
Big difference, never drove with it on the street as it was a "track car"

A Shot of the car on the ground, Griggs P/H T/A

-
have youuu been doing donuts? [Razz] [patriot]
LMAO no..... Sticky Kuhmo Road race tires.... just driving off the trailer and int to the driveway accumulated all those rocks.
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae have youuu been doing donuts? ]
In case you were wondering... this is that car


-
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae have youuu been doing donuts? ]
In case you were wondering... this is that car


-
Hey BizKit...what happened to that car??? You still go it/is that the blue/yellow one you're racing now?
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae have youuu been doing donuts? ]
In case you were wondering... this is that car


-
Hey BizKit...what happened to that car??? You still go it/is that the blue/yellow one you're racing now?
Unfortunatly I had to sell this one in a divorce, the guy who bought it took it to one even at Laguna and blew the motor. He replaced it with a a decent crate motor and the car's been sitting collecting dust ever since. Apparently it's his MO when it comes to car projects. Buys em works on em for a bit then the sit and he moves on. I tried to buy it back from him but he wouldn't sell (why I got thw yellow and blue one now, which I'm thinking of selling and getting a spec Miata)
 
Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
Have the MM ta/phb setup on my coupe, along with MM adj lca's and koni shocks, with MM TA springs.

it hooks like crazy in a straight line, people have done 1.3 60' on the MM ta/phb setup to give you an idea.

no scraping, exhaust swaps don't take any longer, I don't jack from the diff anyways so jacking the car up isn't any different for me.

the car rides better, sticks better, and is more predictable compared to the stock 4 link design.

I don't notice any increase in NVH at all, but the whole car is lined with peel `n seal (dynamat extreme equivalent), and I run a dynomax super turbo catback, all I can really hear is the procharger.

[ August 17, 2011, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Blind ]
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
I've removed and installed my trans several times with the TA and a DS safety loop. It probably takes 10 minutes longer. The thing you have to watch out for on the street are high crowns or ruts in the road. Back when I used to drive my car on the street I did scrape the TA on a high spot between two ruts on the freeway.
 
Posted by DLo (Member # 6133) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Jaejae, I don't think you want one of these for donuts.
Maybe Jaejae is graduating and wants to do more than just drive in circles [Big Grin]

I think most of us all enjoyed yum yums at one point in our lives [Whoo Whooooo!]
 
Posted by sydewayzLX50 (Member # 10217) on :
 
its some pretty fun circles

some of us out here dont wanna grow up LoL

[ August 17, 2011, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: sydewayzLX50 ]
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae have youuu been doing donuts? ]
In case you were wondering... this is that car


-
Hey BizKit...what happened to that car??? You still go it/is that the blue/yellow one you're racing now?
Unfortunatly I had to sell this one in a divorce, the guy who bought it took it to one even at Laguna and blew the motor. He replaced it with a a decent crate motor and the car's been sitting collecting dust ever since. Apparently it's his MO when it comes to car projects. Buys em works on em for a bit then the sit and he moves on. I tried to buy it back from him but he wouldn't sell (why I got thw yellow and blue one now, which I'm thinking of selling and getting a spec Miata)
Damn, now that sucks! Sorry to hear that you had to give it up. That's pretty shitty that the guy won't sell your old car back to you [Embarrassed] PM sent BTW [Wink]
 
Posted by 9cobra7 (Member # 2812) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by sydewayzLX50:
its some pretty fun circles

some of us out here dont wanna grow up LoL
I remember doing fun circles on my Big Wheel when I was 5 [Eek!]

Aside from that, the Torque Arm is an amazing thing on a solid rear axle when it's set up right with shocks/springs.
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
quote:
Originally posted by sydewayzLX50:
its some pretty fun circles

some of us out here dont wanna grow up LoL
I remember doing fun circles on my Big Wheel when I was 5 [Eek!]

Aside from that, the Torque Arm is an amazing thing on a solid rear axle when it's set up right with shocks/springs.
+1 it truly is.... I remember the first article I read on the Griggs T/A and it was on this SCCA autocrosser that had it installed and there was photos of his car pulling both front tires off the ground coming out of the last turn on to the straight section. It was AMAZING
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by 9cobra7:
quote:
Originally posted by sydewayzLX50:
its some pretty fun circles

some of us out here dont wanna grow up LoL
I remember doing fun circles on my Big Wheel when I was 5 [Eek!]

Aside from that, the Torque Arm is an amazing thing on a solid rear axle when it's set up right with shocks/springs.
+1 it truly is.... I remember the first article I read on the Griggs T/A and it was on this SCCA autocrosser that had it installed and there was photos of his car pulling both front tires off the ground coming out of the last turn on to the straight section. It was AMAZING
It was somthing like this, his rears weren't soo laterally loaded like in the pic below but both fronts were off the ground as high as this


-
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
the torque arm is the best thing you can do for your solid axle car, as for dd use i would lean toward mm's torque arm as it is beefier than griggs piece,imo griggs is more geared toward track duty where keeping weight down is important,

and fyi you have to run a phb wit a torque arm. and its reccomended not to mix n match brands for optimum geometry.

and as for "swangin" n gettin sideways,it depends on the setup, dan pina "Drift patrol" runs a griggs torque arm in his fox and swears by it.

bottom line its guna make your car perform better in any situation weather its autox, drag or drift, and depending on what the rest of the car is set up for. if you call MM and tell them exacty what you wana do with the car they will tell you whats best for your needs and can answer any question you have about suspension, (thats what i did) [Wink] and they helped save me money too [Big Grin]

[ August 17, 2011, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by cobra_302_stang (Member # 7257) on :
 
If you need help let me know i'll be more than happy to help you with any questions you have. I'll take you out for a ride in my car so you can see how it performs. [Cool] It all depends on what you want to use the car for. I drive my car everyday and open track it and never look back. But just for your information on the street with that setup it will never reach its limit like on the track.
 
Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
I've got the Griggs rear Torque arm, P/H & coilover setup on my car. One of the best things I've EVER done to my Fox Body! IMO, Griggs is second to none [patriot]
 
Posted by BIzKitBrAIn (Member # 4018) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
I've got the Griggs rear Torque arm, P/H & coilover setup on my car. One of the best things I've EVER done to my Fox Body! IMO, Griggs is second to none [patriot]
too bad they filed chapter 11, no more griggs
 
Posted by gercolla1 (Member # 3068) on :
 
geta a torque arm and say good bye to nose dive when you slam on the brakes at 120+..
 
Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
I have the ta and phb in my coupe because of the torn uca and now the car drive so much better on the street and launches hard the trans had to be removed and wasn't to bad and as far as my x pipe it was modified to fit under the cross bar that links the two sub frame connectors and yes over extreme speed bumps the ta scrapes but as far as dd and handling I would chose a 3 link set up over the traditional 4 link set up
 
Posted by JBeezy53 (Member # 3960) on :
 
Well looks like I may be looking into a TA and PHB for the coupe soon. Has anyone used the Global West kit?
 
Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BIzKitBrAIn:
quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
I've got the Griggs rear Torque arm, P/H & coilover setup on my car. One of the best things I've EVER done to my Fox Body! IMO, Griggs is second to none [patriot]
no more griggs
Even worse, you are mis-informed...... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by JBeezy53 (Member # 3960) on :
 
Well thanks to this thread I've wasted a couple work hours researching TA and PHB. I'm on a Corral post from 2007 and guess who was very active in it........ Luke87GT.
 
Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
Hahahaha^^^^^Damn it takes that long to make a decision lmao
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JBeezy53:
Well thanks to this thread I've wasted a couple work hours researching TA and PHB. I'm on a Corral post from 2007 and guess who was very active in it........ Luke87GT.
Haha, that was back when I had another car, my 93 coupe... It pretty much had everything but a TA.

That was a weekend toy, this is a daily driver now.

Anyway, here is the previous car (Griggs front, MM rear minus TA)

-

-
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
wow^^^^ nicee.
 
Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
Maximum motorsport set up
-

[ August 19, 2011, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: 50Reasons ]
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 50Reasons:
Maximum motorsport set up
-
Thats my setup minus the adjustable sway bar...is that your car???
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Thanks for all the insight gentlemen.

One other order of business... Probing around google, I see the that TA/PHB combo weighs about 59lbs total. Each stock upper control arm weighs what, maybe 3-4lbs? So the TA/PHB combo adds about 50lbs for reference.

A tubular front suspension will remove about that much if I recall (assuming you use MM)
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Thanks for all the insight gentlemen.

One other order of business... Probing around google, I see the that TA/PHB combo weighs about 59lbs total. Each stock upper control arm weighs what, maybe 3-4lbs? So the TA/PHB combo adds about 50lbs for reference.

A tubular front suspension will remove about that much if I recall (assuming you use MM)
But you gotta remember...thats an extra 50lbs. where it's needed too [Wink] That extra weight helps keep the mustang's swirly ass end planted.
 
Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
lol ^^^ +1000

the perfomance gained far out weighs the extra 50lbs

[ August 19, 2011, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 
Posted by JBeezy53 (Member # 3960) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Thanks for all the insight gentlemen.

One other order of business... Probing around google, I see the that TA/PHB combo weighs about 59lbs total. Each stock upper control arm weighs what, maybe 3-4lbs? So the TA/PHB combo adds about 50lbs for reference.

A tubular front suspension will remove about that much if I recall (assuming you use MM)
They say the tubular up front saves about 40 lbs or so. So you'd end up shifting 40 lbs to the rear and adding 10 lbs in a good location all while gaining a hell of a lot more traction. Seems well worth it to me.
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Actually, looking at the MM site, I notice that if you remove the upper control arms, 6lbs dogbone weight, quad shocks, quad shock brackets, and HW, it removes about 25lbs and you stick 59lbs back on. So the total gain is 34lbs which isn't bad at all...
 
Posted by JBeezy53 (Member # 3960) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Actually, looking at the MM site, I notice that if you remove the upper control arms, 6lbs dogbone weight, quad shocks, quad shock brackets, and HW, it removes about 25lbs and you stick 59lbs back on. So the total gain is 34lbs which isn't bad at all...
True but on both my 5.0s all that is left back there is the UCAs so I wasn't taking that other stuff into account.
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Actually, looking at the MM site, I notice that if you remove the upper control arms, 6lbs dogbone weight, quad shocks, quad shock brackets, and HW, it removes about 25lbs and you stick 59lbs back on. So the total gain is 34lbs which isn't bad at all...
Actually it's 34lbs of unsprung weight which is not the greatest. But, the handling improvement trumps the weight penalty. A lot of high end mustang race cars use a custom 3 link which is a lot lighter than a TA.
 
Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Tim, do you know the difference between the Standard/HD and the Race version MM TA?

they have three varieties.
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
I didn't even know they had a race version. If there is a significant weight savings I might have to get it. Then there might be a used HD TA on the local market [Wink]
 




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