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Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
The fight is getting closer and i want to see where my boxing fan are at...I have Pac-Man winning by decision...
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
Cotto, by late stoppage
 
Posted by 9165pt0 (Member # 7625) on :
 
pacs way too fast. hes got his step ova down. i think cottos strong enuff 2 win, but he betta counter dat speed n angles pacs gon bring. only bad news it dat cotto got frustrated with one of his sparring partners and kiked him out of the camp. they say the sparring partner was there to copy pacs style and outbox cotto and he frustrated cotto 2 da point of makin him leave camp...dat doesnt sound good.
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
You honestly think Cotto will work hard in the last rounds...I think he will win a majority of the early rounds, but his lack of stamina will show itself and leave him open for effective counters...he tends to stop moving effectively after 8 rounds...I just think because of the stuff happening in the Phillipines Pac seems to be a little bit more motivated to win...I don't see a true motivation for Cotto, nor have I heard anything to get me to believe that he wants to win more than Pac...I honestly think that is why Mayweather talks shit so he can always fight with a chip on his shoulder...always wanting to prove the haters wrong...I don't see Cotto winning, but i do see a closer fight than Freddie Roach will like...I also don't see Cotto getting KOed...He took a ton of punishment from Margarito and stayed standing...

[ October 28, 2009, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: rmadison007 ]
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
Like I have been saying all along. This whole fight is dependent on how much Cotto can weight on the night of the fight. if he has to weigh 145lbs he will lose. If he can rehydrate and come in around 158 as he usually he will knock Pacmans head into the third row!
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
I guarantee you Cotto will weigh 155-160 on fight night...Most Welterweights weigh about that on fight night...Cotto's power means nothing if he can't hit Pac...He will give him angles and he has good hand speed,decent ability to counter, and move effectively...Cotto's defense and establishing a consistent jab is the key...Also Cotto should take advantage of Pac Man's poor defensive after his aggressive combination that normally leave him vernerable to counter right hands(Marquez blueprinted that)...For Pac if he understands that Cotto's weakness is his defense while moving in and stays consistent with a straight left and right uppercut...Cotto will eventually walk right into problems...Remember I have said from the begining Straight Left and Right Uppercut...Also watch for that overhand left that put Hatton to sleep, your natural reaction to that move is to block your body...That punch is devastating!
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
My boy PacMan is about to KNOCK COTTO THE FUCK OUT! PacMan isn't gonna let his people down now. The boy is in his prime and I got faith that he can fuck up almost anyone in or around his weight class [Whoo Whooooo!] Unstoppable [worship]
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
I guarantee you Cotto will weigh 155-160 on fight night...Most Welterweights weigh about that on fight night...Cotto's power means nothing if he can't hit Pac...He will give him angles and he has good hand speed,decent ability to counter, and move effectively...Cotto's defense and establishing a consistent jab is the key...Also Cotto should take advantage of Pac Man's poor defensive after his aggressive combination that normally leave him vernerable to counter right hands(Marquez blueprinted that)...For Pac if he understands that Cotto's weakness is his defense while moving in and stays consistent with a straight left and right uppercut...Cotto will eventually walk right into problems...Remember I have said from the begining Straight Left and Right Uppercut...Also watch for that overhand left that put Hatton to sleep, your natural reaction to that move is to block your body...That punch is devastating!
In the contract he signed with Oscar, Oscar could not weigh anymore than 145lbs on fight night and that sealed his doom. I just wonder if Cotto has the same stipulation. I don"t think most people understand the signifigance of being able to rehydrate. Cotto was hit by Margacheato with plaster gloves for 11 rounds. I don"t think Pacman is gonna hurt him too bad LOL
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
Like I have been saying all along. This whole fight is dependent on how much Cotto can weight on the night of the fight. if he has to weigh 145lbs he will lose. If he can rehydrate and come in around 158 as he usually he will knock Pacmans head into the third row!
This is how I am seeing it. I see no clause that said 145 for fight night. I believe Pac will feel the power diff when he steps into a weight class where the opponent is a natural in that weight class and among the elite hitter.
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
My boy PacMan is about to KNOCK COTTO THE FUCK OUT! PacMan isn't gonna let his people down now. The boy is in his prime and I got faith that he can fuck up almost anyone in or around his weight class [Whoo Whooooo!] Unstoppable [worship]
Pac ain"t nowhere near unstoppable [Roll Eyes] If that was the case why would he need to fight all these people at "catchweights"?
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
Like I have been saying all along. This whole fight is dependent on how much Cotto can weight on the night of the fight. if he has to weigh 145lbs he will lose. If he can rehydrate and come in around 158 as he usually he will knock Pacmans head into the third row!
This is how I am seeing it. I see no clause that said 145 for fight night. I believe Pac will feel the power diff when he steps into a weight class where the opponent is a natural in that weight class and among the elite hitter.
Yeah but we did'nt know until AFTER the De La Hoya fight about the fight night weight being 145lbs so we won't know until the fight happens.
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
Weight is not going to matter in this fight...Naturally Pac is around 145-150 pounds...Based on his recent fights his power did not disappear and he seems just as quick, and actually looks like a better boxer not just a one hand wonder...Cotto is naturally a 160-165 pound guy maybe more and should be in the 160 range fight night, but even as at 147 Cotto is not known to have knockout power...he is a pressure fighter whose accumulation of hard body shots usually make his opponents quit...His style of fighting mimics Hatton's...As a fighter Cotto is alot better fighter than Hatton, but they fight the same way...aggressive,hard body punching, poor defense...You guys will see...Pac will take advantage of Cotto's flaws in his defense and win by decision...Cotto's pride won't allow him to get KOed...
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
Weight is not going to matter in this fight...Naturally Pac is around 145-150 pounds...Based on his recent fights his power did not disappear and he seems just as quick, and actually looks like a better boxer not just a one hand wonder...Cotto is naturally a 160-165 pound guy maybe more and should be in the 160 range fight night, but even as at 147 Cotto is not known to have knockout power...he is a pressure fighter whose accumulation of hard body shots usually make his opponents quit...His style of fighting mimics Hatton's...As a fighter Cotto is alot better fighter than Hatton, but they fight the same way...aggressive,hard body punching, poor defense...You guys will see...Pac will take advantage of Cotto's flaws in his defense and win by decision...Cotto's pride won't allow him to get KOed...
only way I see Pac winning is if Cotto beats himself. He is naturally the bigger man and weight does matter. And Pac is not a defensive dynamo himself only thing I credit Roach with is making him a legit 2 fisted fighter. Pac is a flawed fighter as well. It is just no one played it to a strength until Marquez did. If Cotto was smart he will take a page from that book and take Pac out inside of 9 maybe 10 rounds. But I can see a Pac victory as well. But my mind is going with Cotto.

[ October 28, 2009, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: N8 ]
 
Posted by 9165pt0 (Member # 7625) on :
 
yah but big diff between cotto and hatton is dat cotto keeps his guard nice and tight, also he is much more calculated in what he does. but pac still has way 2 much speed and angles, and all that coming from a lefty is hard to beat. hopefully cotto can start to time pac by the middle rounds and give us an exciting fight.

mayweather vs. cotto or pac needs to happen for boxing tho.
shit id settle for a mayweather/mosely.
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
Weight is not going to matter in this fight...Naturally Pac is around 145-150 pounds...Based on his recent fights his power did not disappear and he seems just as quick, and actually looks like a better boxer not just a one hand wonder...Cotto is naturally a 160-165 pound guy maybe more and should be in the 160 range fight night, but even as at 147 Cotto is not known to have knockout power...he is a pressure fighter whose accumulation of hard body shots usually make his opponents quit...His style of fighting mimics Hatton's...As a fighter Cotto is alot better fighter than Hatton, but they fight the same way...aggressive,hard body punching, poor defense...You guys will see...Pac will take advantage of Cotto's flaws in his defense and win by decision...Cotto's pride won't allow him to get KOed...
only way I see Pac winning is if Cotto beats himself. He is naturally the bigger man and weight does matter. And Pac is now a defensive dynamo himself only thing I credit Roach with is making him a legit 2 fisted fighter. Pac is a flawed fighter as well. It is just no one played it to a strength until Marquez did. If Cotto was smart he will take a page from that book and take Pac out inside of 9 maybe 10 rounds. But I can see a Pac victory as well. But my mind is going with Cotto.
You have to remember who Pac's trainer is...Mr. Roach...Roach knows how to pick opponents and gameplan...Marquez beat Pac because he is a great counter puncher with a rock hard chin...He was willing to take one the chin to give two...It takes a very discplined fighter to fight Pac because of his ackward style...Cotto will have to pay a steep price to come in or try an walk down Pac...I don't think Cotto will risk that questionable chin....Cotto will be the chasing Pac and that will basically eliminate the weight and height advantages...Ask oscar how hard it was to find Pac and exchange...He is very quick and agile and throws punches from every angle...I just think that unless you are defensively sound that it will be hard to handle Pac...Pac does not have good defense, but he has developed great head movement and footwork that keep him out of danger...he is consistently turning his opponent around in circles after exchanges to stay out of danger and rarely is caught on the ropes...I just don't seem Cotto walking him down into the ropes or corner and consistently doing damage...Do u think if Cotto is caught early he will be willing to get up and grind it out to win the fight?...It says alot about Marquez that he was able to take 3 shots in the first round of the first fight and get a draw and take 1 shot in the first round of the second and lost(but should have won)...
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
lol..Cotto suspect chin. He fought a dude with cement gloves and stood up for a long time. I think too muc credit is being given to Pac and too much taken from Cotto. Do not forget Pac has yet to be hit by a legit person in the weight class. And a person that can HIT. Cotto is a very good boxer. Honestly he fought a shell in Oscar so I dont count that. His hatton victory was impressive but Hatton just came off of a knockout loss. I think this will be a good fight, but Cotto deserves more credit.
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
lol..Cotto suspect chin. He fought a dude with cement gloves and stood up for a long time. I think too muc credit is being given to Pac and too much taken from Cotto. Do not forget Pac has yet to be hit by a legit person in the weight class. And a person that can HIT. Cotto is a very good boxer. Honestly he fought a shell in Oscar so I dont count that. His hatton victory was impressive but Hatton just came off of a knockout loss. I think this will be a good fight, but Cotto deserves more credit.
excuses, excuses. PacMan FT-mothafuckin-W! [Razz]
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
lol..Cotto suspect chin. He fought a dude with cement gloves and stood up for a long time. I think too muc credit is being given to Pac and too much taken from Cotto. Do not forget Pac has yet to be hit by a legit person in the weight class. And a person that can HIT. Cotto is a very good boxer. Honestly he fought a shell in Oscar so I dont count that. His hatton victory was impressive but Hatton just came off of a knockout loss. I think this will be a good fight, but Cotto deserves more credit.
People are actin like Pacman is superman or somethin. You should have heard all the filipinos gettin all excited at the gym after pacman beat Oscar. They were talkin wreckless sayin that He would K.O. Floyd within 4 rounds and all kinds of B.S. [Roll Eyes] I really hope Cotto knocks his head off next month. If he does, i'm gonna be laughin all the way to the bank! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
lol..Cotto suspect chin. He fought a dude with cement gloves and stood up for a long time. I think too muc credit is being given to Pac and too much taken from Cotto. Do not forget Pac has yet to be hit by a legit person in the weight class. And a person that can HIT. Cotto is a very good boxer. Honestly he fought a shell in Oscar so I dont count that. His hatton victory was impressive but Hatton just came off of a knockout loss. I think this will be a good fight, but Cotto deserves more credit.
People are actin like Pacman is superman or somethin. You should have heard all the filipinos gettin all excited at the gym after pacman beat Oscar. They were talkin wreckless sayin that He would K.O. Floyd within 4 rounds and all kinds of B.S. [Roll Eyes] I really hope Cotto knocks his head off next month. If he does, i'm gonna be laughin all the way to the bank! [Big Grin]
Cotto has the skill to beat Pac and the power to end it. And the chin to weather a storm. His fitness is always gonna be suspect. But his heart can bever be questioned. If Cotto indeed loses, he may as well retire.
 
Posted by 9165pt0 (Member # 7625) on :
 
both men have a good chance. but pac at this stage is goin 2 b hard 2 beat. hes a lefty, who steps ova, is fast, and has developed his right hook. but dont count out cotto, hopefully he can time things. im just not really sold on cottos new trainer. goin up against roach is goin 2 b hard.
 
Posted by 04cobra408 (Member # 4025) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
Cotto, by late stoppage
+1 [patriot]
 
Posted by BUKSING (Member # 6594) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SydeWaySix:
My boy PacMan is about to KNOCK COTTO THE FUCK OUT! PacMan isn't gonna let his people down now. The boy is in his prime and I got faith that he can fuck up almost anyone in or around his weight class [Whoo Whooooo!] Unstoppable [worship]
Dude if he lays down Cotto like he did Hatton...that would be the funniest shit ever.
 
Posted by S4OSHUS (Member # 2918) on :
 
i think pac is just gonna be too quick [Wink]
http://www.nowboxing.com/archives/3721
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
i think pac is just gonna be too quick [Wink]
http://www.nowboxing.com/archives/3721
He was just as quick when he fought Marquez. And marquez is not a fast fighter. And marquez tapped dat ass. Cotto is not a sloth, he is not blinding either, but he is a good fighter and is not a Hatton or a shell of Oscar. And Cotto can hit. And Pac is not as elusive as being made out to be. He will be hit. And Miguel is a legitimate welter weight. I cannot think of a opponent that Pac has faced that has a mule kick like Cotto. And that is something you really cannot train for. I still say Cotto by late stoppage.
 
Posted by Rookie07gt (Member # 7536) on :
 
MANNY ALL THE WAY!!! [patriot] I think this will be the most challenging fight for him, but Manny seem like he got quicker and stronger.
 
Posted by S4OSHUS (Member # 2918) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
i think pac is just gonna be too quick [Wink]
http://www.nowboxing.com/archives/3721
He was just as quick when he fought Marquez. And marquez is not a fast fighter. And marquez tapped dat ass. Cotto is not a sloth, he is not blinding either, but he is a good fighter and is not a Hatton or a shell of Oscar. And Cotto can hit. And Pac is not as elusive as being made out to be. He will be hit. And Miguel is a legitimate welter weight. I cannot think of a opponent that Pac has faced that has a mule kick like Cotto. And that is something you really cannot train for. I still say Cotto by late stoppage.
yah, but pac is not the same fighter that fought marquez back then. he has a little more arsenal now.

[ October 29, 2009, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: S4OSHUS ]
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
i think pac is just gonna be too quick [Wink]
http://www.nowboxing.com/archives/3721
He was just as quick when he fought Marquez. And marquez is not a fast fighter. And marquez tapped dat ass. Cotto is not a sloth, he is not blinding either, but he is a good fighter and is not a Hatton or a shell of Oscar. And Cotto can hit. And Pac is not as elusive as being made out to be. He will be hit. And Miguel is a legitimate welter weight. I cannot think of a opponent that Pac has faced that has a mule kick like Cotto. And that is something you really cannot train for. I still say Cotto by late stoppage.
yah, but pac is not the same fighter that fought marquez back then. he has a little more arsenal now.
I would say his biggest gain was that he is now a 2 fisted fighter. I still think too much is being made of him. He does move a bit better too, but he still is not an elusive target. "IF" he wins this then I think all the accolades are welcome. But to judge him by hatton and oscar is premature. There is a reason Manny ducked Mayweather and Shane. Both would have clowned him, easily. Cotto, is a safer tho still dangerous test. As he is easy to bait and historically fades.
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
N8, i think u give Cotto too much credit about his power...He has average power for a welterweight...Typically he wears down his opponents with pressure and volume...His best punch is the left hook to the body...His flaw is defense...He really has a problem coming forward with his ear muffs and is open for an uppercut or straight right or left...The natural reaction for Cotto will be to bully and rough up the smaller Pac...He will push forward hoping to work to the body and find the combination of accuracy and speed hard to deal with...Manny will move effectively, just enough to stay out of harms way...The best way to defeat Manny would be to force him to be the agressor...Make him take chances and make him pay when he does...Slow the fight and make it boring...Manny's a puncher and would prefer to trade than dance...For this fight he will dance because of the size issue...if he gets in trouble he will trade as a natural reaction...To take advantage of his size Cotto should force Manny to come to him and use his jab...He needs Manny to take the risks and come inside of his reach...He should use Floyds gameplan from the marquez fight..and That is how Cotto will have to beat Manny...Cotto was chosen for a reason...Roach doesn't think that Cotto will change his fighting style to beat Manny and will instead let his pride believe that he can beat Manny coming forward...If Cotto stays patience, uses his jab, and force Manny to be the aggressive fighter that lost to Marquez twice he will win...In Manny's last 3 fights his opponents came after him and he countered and moved effectively...all of his opponents were pressure fighters...he stays away from fighters who are defense oriented and good counter punchers...there is a reason!!!
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
I agree with the "reason". Because it is why he avoided the real elite of the class. But I think Cotto is top of the class in power in that division.

Total fights 35
Wins 34
Wins by KO 27
Losses 1
Draws 0
No contests 0

He did TKO Zab, and Zab is a much better fighter than Pac and is faster IMO. He took some hard shots from Randall Bailey who is known for knocking cats heads off (granted that is all he known for). And he won against Joshua Clottey, whom I think is a better fighter than Pac too. Tho I didnt really like his game plan. Cotto has basically been the ring with stiffer competition IMO. He has the whiskers, so Pac wont be knocking him out. Both men are easily hit, I just think Cotto packs a harder punch. Hell he knocked Clottey down with a jab. And Clottey is no slouch. Oh and btw Judah is a southpaw. So Cotto has fought fast southpaws.

[ October 29, 2009, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: N8 ]
 
Posted by rmadison007 (Member # 8670) on :
 
Cotto vs Judah...Judah was winning the fight and actually split Cotto lip in the 4th...Judah's Stamina killed him and was not koed by one punch but by the a hundreds or so punches and eventually his body gave up...Thats my point...the volume of punches put Judah down not one punch...From my memory Clottey never went down and his Game Plan did suck...never leave a fight up to the hands of judges...Also Judah has never been the same fighter after his first loss...You are right that Cotto is on top of the division in power, but no one in the division has elite power...He is not a one punch fighter that can change a fight with a single punch...Pac on the other hand has that type of power...I not 100% that the power will follow him to 145-147, but it did follow him to 140...Honestly, i think in the power department they are probably even and if i had to choose one it would be Pac...I think out of Pac and Cotto only Pac has to power to change the fight with one punch...Out of all those KO's Cotto has, he has never Koed someone similar to the way Pac has...and I agree Cotto has faced tougher competition, but Moseley really won and the Clottey fight should have been a draw and the only real win in my book was Margarito because he was winning most of the fight until the plaster hardened...In all his elite fights only in the Judah fight did his "power" show...
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
Cotto did down Clottey in like the 1st or second round or and I do not believe Pac has the power of a true welter. Cotto did very well against Zab and weather some tremendous shots from Zab. And I believe Zab punches hard and is faster and has more defensive prowess than a Pac. Like I said unless Cotto just slips tremendously I do not see Pac winning this fight or landing a punch that changes the course of the fight. If Clottey and Zab couldnt do it Pac wont. He could win by lookin busier I do agree.
 
Posted by S4OSHUS (Member # 2918) on :
 
^^^^^you both have good points. i just think pac is gonna shock it again. all the previous fights people say "oh, he's gonna loose this one for sure" but he always comes out better and better every fight. so, i'll just wait [Wink]
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
^^^^^you both have good points. i just think pac is gonna shock it again. all the previous fights people say "oh, he's gonna loose this one for sure" but he always comes out better and better every fight. so, i'll just wait [Wink]
Just for the record, I knew he would beat Hatton, and I knew he would beat Oscar. Both fighters looked terrible in previous outings. Cotto has yet to look terrible in an outing (I dont count MargaCheato). Who ever bets on Cotto will clean up. Just for the record I am a Pac fan.
 
Posted by S4OSHUS (Member # 2918) on :
 
cool...either way if pac wins or lose you win. you'll either be more of a fan or you could say "i told you so" [Big Grin]
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by S4OSHUS:
^^^^^you both have good points. i just think pac is gonna shock it again. all the previous fights people say "oh, he's gonna loose this one for sure" but he always comes out better and better every fight. so, i'll just wait [Wink]
Just for the record, I knew he would beat Hatton, and I knew he would beat Oscar. Both fighters looked terrible in previous outings. Cotto has yet to look terrible in an outing (I dont count MargaCheato). Who ever bets on Cotto will clean up. Just for the record I am a Pac fan.
I thought Oscar would beat him but I was wrong and i can admit it. Hatton i thought would lose but I bet money on him because I had 4-1 odds. I hope Cotto weighs 145lbs at the scales and come fight night weighs 160lbs. Even if the contract says 145lbs on fight night i would say fuck it and knock manny's fucken head clean off his shoulders. I mean really? If Cotto's weighs more, what the fuck are they gonna do? call off the fight? LOL
 
Posted by BUKSING (Member # 6594) on :
 
i just saw pacman on that fob show tv patrol tonite and he looks more ready than ever... i really think he's gonna bring it.
 




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