|
Author
|
Topic: Will a 87-93 5.0 fit in a older 68 mustang?
|
norcalfiddy
¯
Member # 11207
|
posted
 
 
thinking about picking up a older 68 mustang, that already has a older 302, that needs work and i was wondering if a newer 302 will bolt right up? or would i need different mounts? do companies make mounts for this swap? id rather have the newer motor for the efi and gas mileage..
let me know, thanks
[ January 20, 2012, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: norcalfiddy ]
--------------------
600HP 1996 7.3L powerstroke single cab short bed race truck
Posts: 3393 | From: Brentwood | Registered: Aug 2011
| :
|
|
norcalfiddy
¯
Member # 11207
|
posted
anyone?!?!
--------------------
600HP 1996 7.3L powerstroke single cab short bed race truck
Posts: 3393 | From: Brentwood | Registered: Aug 2011
| :
|
|
Secnd2nun64
¯
Member # 1431
|
posted
Ya, its the same block. Use the 68 motor mounts. There are better options out there is you want EFI. Like boss EFI. Keep it looking period correct. Keep the fox parts in the foxes. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 1460 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2002
| :
|
|
wilit
Mustang Messiah
Member # 3367
|
posted
Yep, will drop right in. If you want to keep the EFI, it's a bit more difficult. For the harness I'd go with a Fordfuelinjection.com harness. It's plug and play, no cutting and splicing required. You'll also need two new fuel lines and a fuel injection tank pickup from Ron Morris.
--------------------
"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 4793 | From: 37.78514° North 122.40100° West | Registered: Oct 2003
| :
|
|
norcalfiddy
¯
Member # 11207
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Secnd2nun64:
Ya, its the same block. Use the 68 motor mounts. There are better options out there is you want EFI. Like boss EFI. Keep it looking period correct. Keep the fox parts in the foxes.
ok cool. well ive been looking at 60's stangs and i already have the newer complete running motor and harness, so why not, and the rest of the car will still be orignal.
--------------------
600HP 1996 7.3L powerstroke single cab short bed race truck
Posts: 3393 | From: Brentwood | Registered: Aug 2011
| :
|
|
triple b
¯
Member # 8763
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Secnd2nun64:
Ya, its the same block. Use the 68 motor mounts. There are better options out there is you want EFI. Like boss EFI. Keep it looking period correct. Keep the fox parts in the foxes.
Nothing wrong with a clean resto-mod it might even be more valued than a unrestored old school that needs "work" but runs kind of car
--------------------
1988 4cyl conv 306 HCI "sasha"
2004 tahoe
Sold- 87 GT, 72 chevelle, 63 biscane, 82 monte carlo, 73 nova, 88 silverado,
Posts: 1730 | From: sacramento ca | Registered: Nov 2008
| :
|
|
87droptop50
Go Giants!
Member # 7185
|
posted
Heres a good example Of how a clean swap can look once completed 
--------------------
HighSpeed Motorsports
87Mustang Gt Conv kurgan tuned
03Harley F150 #5023
69El Camino SS396 -sold
99 f350 7.3 DRW
Posts: 3855 | From: SF | Registered: Oct 2006
| :
|
|
v-town coupe
fordologist
Member # 2771
|
posted
done a few of these swaps into older cars but have never done the swap and keep EFI, I helped on one but dont consider it mine and also did an EFI setup on a factory FIVE car which would probably be close to the same I suppose.
some things to consider:
if you go efi be prepared to do a fuel system upgrade.
if you have factory power steering it will be more of a challenge to retain that and use the serpentine belt setup.
unless you get the conversion hoses or a conversion Radiator the water pump and radiator situation may pose some challenges for you but like anything nothing some $$$ cant fix.
for me when I have installed these motors in cars the cars already had factory v-8 setups.
I have my own system which is:
-convert to front sump oil pan which you can use off the old motor(70 and earlier) if need be.
-use the front timing cover off the old motor so you can utilize the front dipstick and use a mechanical fuel pump if wanted.
-if going mechanical fuel pump make sure you install a fuel pump eccentric and get the right one. there are two styles 1pc and 2pc(I try to use the 2pc as much as possible because it works like a bearing but make sure it will engauge the pump arm) and I believe it was the 1 pc style that wanted to rub on the timing cover and not allow the cover to sit flush
-Tap the old dipstick hole on the block with an 1/8 npt tap and plug it
-I usually have the owner order a "conversion balancer which is a 50oz balancer but the dimensions of the original 28oz one. this will allow you to use the original style water pump with no hose or radiator changes, you can use the original pulleys/ belts and they all line up, not to mention if you have p/s there are no modifications there.
-get an aftermarket distributor with correct gear.
so to sum it up. buy the conversion balancer, re-use the oil pan and pickup, re-use the whole front of the motor, thread and plug the 5.0 dipstick hole, get the right distributor and make sure your using the h.o./351w firing order and go for it. I'm not advocating that you use USED old parts on the motor BUT things like the timing cover and oil pan are okay to use once cleaned up or you can upgrade at that time, but
the customers always had new oil pumps,pickups,water pumps,belts at the time the motor is built and installed. its just that re-using the front accessories and parts just by buying the conversion balancer save you time and money.
then you can walk into a parts store and say "hey I want a water pump for a 68 stang 302" or "I want a lower hose for a 68 stang"and you have no issues, same goes for belts , and you wont be shiming or trying to have pulleys shaved because you want to use v-belt with a reverse rotation pump which still doesnt work cause its rotating the wrong way and the outlet is on the wrong side or this pump is taller or shorter then the other and now my pulleys dont line up, etc. this can go on and on with certain problems you may have.
So either convert and use all the same front accessories as stock or if you go with the stock 5.0 front setup go all the way dont try and mix and match. thats where the head ache begins. just know that with the 5.0 stuff in 5.0 configuration you will need to do something with the rad hoses or swap the radiator and stock old ford power steering does not like the pressure a 5.0 pump puts out and you will do some converting to the alternator area because the stock alternator doesnt like the factory 5.0 bracket there are some options there that arent too bad.
no matter which way you go plan on upgrading the fuel system if you plan to make power, its just that with efi you will be buying an: electric pump and filter setup, plus upgrading the existing line and adding a return, also a modified sending unit. where carb setup you can buy a pre bent or bend your own larger line but the one in their now will atleast allow you to get it running.
ron morris performance and the mustangs plus efi conversion section are some good places to check out the efi conversion parts for converting the fuel,cooling,belt systems if retaining the serpentine belts,and factory EFI
feel free to PM me if you have some questions or Ideas I've tried a fair amount of variations and im just sharing what worked best for me.
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003
| :
|
|
v-town coupe
fordologist
Member # 2771
|
posted
forgot to add you will just be using the original style motor mounts from the 60's car. they will bolt right on.
if you plan to use the 5spd thats a whole other conversion topic, or if you use the original C4 you will need a special flex plate for a 50oz motor to connect to c4.
lastly if you go AOD theres a few pieces you will need and some extra parts if you go 5.0 carb'd vs the factory EFI setup.
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003
| :
|
|
norcalfiddy
¯
Member # 11207
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by v-town coupe:
done a few of these swaps into older cars but have never done the swap and keep EFI, I helped on one but dont consider it mine and also did an EFI setup on a factory FIVE car which would probably be close to the same I suppose.
some things to consider:
if you go efi be prepared to do a fuel system upgrade.
if you have factory power steering it will be more of a challenge to retain that and use the serpentine belt setup.
unless you get the conversion hoses or a conversion Radiator the water pump and radiator situation may pose some challenges for you but like anything nothing some $$$ cant fix.
for me when I have installed these motors in cars the cars already had factory v-8 setups.
I have my own system which is:
-convert to front sump oil pan which you can use off the old motor(70 and earlier) if need be.
-use the front timing cover off the old motor so you can utilize the front dipstick and use a mechanical fuel pump if wanted.
-if going mechanical fuel pump make sure you install a fuel pump eccentric and get the right one. there are two styles 1pc and 2pc(I try to use the 2pc as much as possible because it works like a bearing but make sure it will engauge the pump arm) and I believe it was the 1 pc style that wanted to rub on the timing cover and not allow the cover to sit flush
-Tap the old dipstick hole on the block with an 1/8 npt tap and plug it
-I usually have the owner order a "conversion balancer which is a 50oz balancer but the dimensions of the original 28oz one. this will allow you to use the original style water pump with no hose or radiator changes, you can use the original pulleys/ belts and they all line up, not to mention if you have p/s there are no modifications there.
-get an aftermarket distributor with correct gear.
so to sum it up. buy the conversion balancer, re-use the oil pan and pickup, re-use the whole front of the motor, thread and plug the 5.0 dipstick hole, get the right distributor and make sure your using the h.o./351w firing order and go for it. I'm not advocating that you use USED old parts on the motor BUT things like the timing cover and oil pan are okay to use once cleaned up or you can upgrade at that time, but
the customers always had new oil pumps,pickups,water pumps,belts at the time the motor is built and installed. its just that re-using the front accessories and parts just by buying the conversion balancer save you time and money.
then you can walk into a parts store and say "hey I want a water pump for a 68 stang 302" or "I want a lower hose for a 68 stang"and you have no issues, same goes for belts , and you wont be shiming or trying to have pulleys shaved because you want to use v-belt with a reverse rotation pump which still doesnt work cause its rotating the wrong way and the outlet is on the wrong side or this pump is taller or shorter then the other and now my pulleys dont line up, etc. this can go on and on with certain problems you may have.
So either convert and use all the same front accessories as stock or if you go with the stock 5.0 front setup go all the way dont try and mix and match. thats where the head ache begins. just know that with the 5.0 stuff in 5.0 configuration you will need to do something with the rad hoses or swap the radiator and stock old ford power steering does not like the pressure a 5.0 pump puts out and you will do some converting to the alternator area because the stock alternator doesnt like the factory 5.0 bracket there are some options there that arent too bad.
no matter which way you go plan on upgrading the fuel system if you plan to make power, its just that with efi you will be buying an: electric pump and filter setup, plus upgrading the existing line and adding a return, also a modified sending unit. where carb setup you can buy a pre bent or bend your own larger line but the one in their now will atleast allow you to get it running.
ron morris performance and the mustangs plus efi conversion section are some good places to check out the efi conversion parts for converting the fuel,cooling,belt systems if retaining the serpentine belts,and factory EFI
feel free to PM me if you have some questions or Ideas I've tried a fair amount of variations and im just sharing what worked best for me.
thanks alot for that write up man..
well i have a complete efi 5.0 still in the car soo when i pull that im going to tear it apart, make sure everything is fine, install new seals and gaskets, do my head and cam swap, new timing chain, lifters, etc, and i still have the harness and computer but not sure if id have to do any changes to the harness. im most likely gunna run a 60's oil pan, hopefully try to use the factory efi pulleys and belt, and use my ps pump and get lines made or just convert it to a manual rack (not sure). definetly going to do a full fuel system upgrade, might use most of the foxbody stuff, and for tranny, id like to get a t5 but might just go with a c4 or AOD. not sure on that..
also, if i were to pickup a orignal 6cyl car, will a v8 go in easy? will all i need are the 60's v8 mounts?
--------------------
600HP 1996 7.3L powerstroke single cab short bed race truck
Posts: 3393 | From: Brentwood | Registered: Aug 2011
| :
|
|
v-town coupe
fordologist
Member # 2771
|
posted
I was trying to find the link but ford racing used to have a little stand alone wiring harness that you only have to hook up something like 8 wires and then get your self a good A9L and you will be good to go. before doing the swap you will probably want to sit down and figure out your transmission selection. cant tell you how many times some says "i'll just go AOD" then next thing you know they want a T-5 and all the money they spent to do the AOD conversion just to drive it for 4 months is now wasted.
If you do get a 6cyl car then you will need frame mounts and motor mounts but things to consider when buying a 6cyl are:
they are 4 lug with garbage front brakes and garbage rear ends
the front springs will not handle a v-8.
depending on your induction i.e. carb or EFI you will need to buy a V-8 throttle pedal.
if I remember right there were some 6cyls that had an oddball A/T tranny that will not work with the V-8 due to not being able to get a flexplate that matches the converter.
not sure what your looking to do. get a cart and have it converted in a week and be driving? or if your looking for a real PROJECT? and not sure of your budget. if your on a budget get a car thats already a v-8 if possible then you dont have to go out right away and start looking for rear ends etc. that and most aftermarket disc brake kits require a v-8 drum spindle to start with so thats more $$$ you'll spend. By all means if you find a clean 6cyl car thats a great deal go for it. but other stuff adds up quick. real quick!
if the car is equipped with factory power assist steering DO NOT use the factory 5.0 pump. its way too much pressure for the factory stuff. the 5.0 pumps do work great with the steeroids rack and pinion kit if you decide to go power rack. have also heard factory pumps really like the tcp power racks as well.
since your talking a about staying EFI here is just a few of the things you will need:
ron morris has a nice little EFI fuel pump kit:
http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/1965-68-RMP-EFI-Fuel-System-Kit.html
lower hose to use stock radiator:
http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/1965-73-Serpentine-Belt-Conversion-Lower-Radiator-Hose.html
also here is a harness kit similar to the ford racing one:
http://www.mustangsplus.com/xcart/1965-70-302/351W-EFI-Wiring-Harness-Kit.html
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003
| :
|
|
|
|
87droptop50
Go Giants!
Member # 7185
|
posted
This is the harness I would use... A buddy of mine has installed 3 of these with no issues . Plus they use original ford plugs
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RFW-COBRA75/
[ January 22, 2012, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: 87droptop50 ]
--------------------
HighSpeed Motorsports
87Mustang Gt Conv kurgan tuned
03Harley F150 #5023
69El Camino SS396 -sold
99 f350 7.3 DRW
Posts: 3855 | From: SF | Registered: Oct 2006
| :
|
|
wilit
Mustang Messiah
Member # 3367
|
posted
Here's the harness I mentioned before. $550 and plugs into the stock '68 harness.
http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/
--------------------
"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 4793 | From: 37.78514° North 122.40100° West | Registered: Oct 2003
| :
|
|
v-town coupe
fordologist
Member # 2771
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
Here's the harness I mentioned before. $550 and plugs into the stock '68 harness.
http://www.rjminjectiontech.com/
That is clean! I LIKE THAT!
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003
| :
|
|
norcalfiddy
¯
Member # 11207
|
posted
awesome. going to look at a 68 saturday. hopefully its worth getting!
--------------------
600HP 1996 7.3L powerstroke single cab short bed race truck
Posts: 3393 | From: Brentwood | Registered: Aug 2011
| :
|
|
v-town coupe
fordologist
Member # 2771
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by norcalfiddy:
awesome. going to look at a 68 saturday. hopefully its worth getting!
let us know what happens. seems like a few board member lately have caught the classic car bug.
Posts: 4597 | From: the V-town | Registered: May 2003
| :
|
|
|
Email this post to someone!
Printer friendly view of this Ford topic
