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Author
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Topic: 5 speed conversion lots of input chime in please
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
 
 
lets say you changed a factory 1993 ford mustang lx 5.0L a/t convertible to a 5speed.wiring wise i didnt have the wiring(reverse light etc..) that goes from the drivers kick panel to the five speed trans and didnt even have the automatic one either i jumped the two wires at the connecter in the kick panel to where the car would start and would run great until totaly warmed up then you shut it off then try to restart and it would just crank over and not start i can hear the fuel pump cycle when ignition is on but not start until the car cooled down then would start is it possible i did something wrong with the wiring to where the computer got burned up to cause this problem
[ April 18, 2010, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707 ]
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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posted
the other plug or connecter that sits right next to the one that u used to jump, is a signal ground to the computer. if u tried to jump that one first without testing with a volt meter first. is what blew it.its a 5 volt signal ground. that should never see 12 volts. i have had this problem lucky only 3 times ever. now i check for it lol! if not sure of the connector, its the one that sits in the clutch arm safety switch adjustable sensor, where two connectors plug in. i think a auto is different from the 5 speed stuff but not sure where the difference is. only seen it on these swaps. havent had any problems with the v8 5 speed conversions if the car was already a 5 speed.
any ways it burned a short in the commuter board, that was the signal ground witch controls, and monitors all the engine management sensors, this can, and was fixed by soldering a jumper wire on the board to reconnect the break. i checked the wires before installation of the commuter to not short again , but was no problem by the time i got to it. the damage had already been done but removed. probably when u might of been jumping the connectors to find which one would let the car start.
but instead of jumping the correct plug for start up. now it will start in gear, not a good safety feature. so its better to plug into the clutch safety switch on the pedal assembly. and leave that other one not connected.lol! ive done this before 2 times myself, lol! only in the last year has this ever happened to me. reggie actually helped me figure this out and how to fix the commuter.sence he did this himself to lolol!
anyways another helpful hint ive had 25 people some trained mechanics and some not come in and got hired and fired. they all cost me more money than they where ever worth. thats why i work alone. people pay u to have a professional work on there car, not be a training car for a newby rookie.the only guy that was worth anything was trent,but he was even dangerous at first lol! your business is on the line everyday. dont let someone else be able to fuck that up for u.i like teaching the guys that really dont know much but want to learn. u dont have to reteach them. lmao!
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
i didnt jump any other plug but the one the tranny harness goes too why would i jump any other plug but that one
[ April 18, 2010, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707 ]
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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Blind
2.3L
CAFords OG
Member # 3052
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posted
seems really strange, I've not heard of this happening before and I had to jump the trans harness on a buddies 5spd swap because he couldn't get a T5 trans harness.
ground is ground, voltage doesn't run through a ground connection until a path is created to a positive source, only then is the amount of voltage determined...
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89 LX Notchback ex 4cyl, 14psi
02 Harley F150, 15psi
Posts: 8521 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jul 2003
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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posted
there is two plugs side by side that are on that clutch sliding safty switch. one plug is the neutral start plug but the other is a 5 volt signal ground strait to the computer. how did u know which one was the correct plug from the gate? im just guessing u jumped the other 5 volt plug thinking it was the right one and then seen nothing happened< or so u thought>.and then did the correct one seeing it worked.i dont know what u did cause i was not there.but the car was running good, and when it came back from your house the computer was blown.and this is the only way ive seen the computer blow in that spot on the board. the signal 5 volt ground is tied in to that one plug right next to the one u jumped. a easy mistake , ive made my self unfortunately lmao!
but for the 4 bolts that hold the brake booster on, for 2 missing and 2 falling off, and the booster to be 1 inch backed away from the firewall almost falling off itself!!!and to tell the guy <he aint dead yet so why is he trippin> is something else. and the distributer one tooth off. and the clutch firewall adjuster on backwards is something id be more concerned about.those are not simple mistakes. do the jobs yourself!!!quit tryin to be every lames friend and be about your business, and more focused, with no distractions.and have better customer service, is more on the line of advice i can think for u. i like u alot! and hope to see u go yet even farther in life, and this is not like u at all!!! so whatever it is snap out of it! and keep on steppin, dont let one bad job get u down.shit happens!
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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84SVOrick
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Member # 9039
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posted
Wow, tech wars calm down fellas
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Bay Area Stunnaz
RIP Jeannera "FOXY302"
10/29/87-10/9/10
1984 SVO 302 HCI a basic bitch
1986 GT FOXY302 stolen and totaled R.I.P.
Posts: 1928 | From: Vallejo CA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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no wars! i love my jerm . ive know him longer than anybody on here or most in my life. i just see my friend going thru stuff. that normally is just not him. i think hes just havin a bad spot in his life and it showed on a job he had, and the customer brought it to me to fix. jerm had other people working on it, so its not him personally on all the stuff, but he is way to busy and should slow down a bit before he has a nervous break down. jerm is one of the few people i would let touch my car. im one of those people whos hair stands on end if u get to close to my stuff, or cars. this situation is not him at all. but ive seen him stressing for a lil while now with life for a couple months now..i had to do a lot of calming down with this customer,so everything would be cool after he left jerms place.but if there was anybody i think he would take constructive criticism from, it would be me. i know his natural work ethics, and they are excellent! again hes had my cars at his place many a times unsupervised with no complaints!! sometime for stuff that would give me troulbe or stuff i just dont want to deal with.but something is breakin him down lately. again no wars... a business freind kickin another business friends ass, to get back in gear!!
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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BIGBALLFACTOR
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Member # 7277
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posted
sound like jerm just needs to take a break an slow down a little bit an get back in the game.an i know sometimes are car just piss you off an you just want it gone an hope to never see it again
Posts: 6908 | From: okc | Registered: Dec 2006
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84SVOrick
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Member # 9039
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Lol i know the car u guys r talkin bout, its my cousins teal convert. I calmed him down also told him jerm did work for me also on an idle and fuel pressure also. Jerm is cool and does do good work, my other cousin had work donw by u, a rebuilt white 91 hatch, and that thing was tight. But any case figured i should chime in and try to mediate sum peace
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Bay Area Stunnaz
RIP Jeannera "FOXY302"
10/29/87-10/9/10
1984 SVO 302 HCI a basic bitch
1986 GT FOXY302 stolen and totaled R.I.P.
Posts: 1928 | From: Vallejo CA | Registered: Mar 2009
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
What computer was in the car before and after the 5 spd conversion?
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
are you talking about the two wires under the dash next to the clutch arm.
john bizzle the computer is the factory a9p that has been in there since the factory
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707:
the computer is the factory a9p that has been in there since the factory
...and there lies the problem. When you do the swap, it's best to use a Manual trans ECU. The automatic ECU goes through a series of switches, as well as the transmission wiring harness, and the voltage is never stepped down. The manual trans ECU doesn't need to do this, as it is a constant. Unfortunately, the two are very different in the voltages.
I would change the ECU to a manual trans version, this should fix the problem.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
quote:
Originally posted by AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707:
the computer is the factory a9p that has been in there since the factory
...and there lies the problem. When you do the swap, it's best to use a Manual trans ECU. The automatic ECU goes through a series of switches, as well as the transmission wiring harness, and the voltage is never stepped down. The manual trans ECU doesn't need to do this, as it is a constant. Unfortunately, the two are very different in the voltages.
I would change the ECU to a manual trans version, this should fix the problem.
im losing you there with voltages and switches i know your a busy guy and probably dodt have time but can you explain if not i totaly understand thanks john
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
A automatic trans ECU puts a different (higher) voltage to the switch in the clutch pedal as well as the wiring harness. When you bypass everything like you did, it will burn the computer up. You have two options:
A. Burn another computer up by not installing the correct computer...
B. Install the correct computer.
I highly doubt you want to swap the entire harness out, but of course that's up to you. Put a Manual trans ECU in the car, it will fix the issue. Patching up the auto trans ECU is an option, but a temp fix at best.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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MUSTTANGUY
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Member # 2251
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posted
I have alittle different take on this.....
I have done the swap in the past and have sold dozens of computers,MAF conversions,and manual/auto conversions throughout the years.
I have never seen an issue with an auto computer in a manual swap car,it is acceptable to use an auto computer in manual car but NOT the other way around. One thing to be careful of is the O2 sensor harness as there are pinout differences between the two and can/will cause computer damage if not compatible.
If the correct manual transmission harness is not in place this needs to be done first and foremost to get the vehicle "right". (I have these available if needed)
In reading the symtoms from his first post, he states the car runs fine until it gets warm, then will not run again until it cools down which sounds more like a heat soak issue and may possibly be completely unrelated to the swap.
Some heat soak potential problems may be coil,TFI module, or pickup inside distributor.
The key part here is the car runs (initially) Ask Duncan about this, we spent some time back and forth with via PM and phone regarding an issue with a car he was working on which was jumped at the pedal.
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Tim (Musttanguy)
97 5.0 coupe
82 GT 427/T56/9"
Posts: 1690 | From: Lodi | Registered: Dec 2002
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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posted
i patched the computer , made sure the one plug was not connected. car runs good and strong with no check engine light to day as i know of it. a couple weeks ago i did the fix. no other parts were changed or replaced to make it run correct.
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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posted
its funny tho,i had a car that was giving me trouble a year ago,me and mustang guy, and reggie, was getting down on some tech stuff to figure out a cause and a fix. i was going over someone,s failed attempt at a conversion, with a bunch of Mitch matched parts and diff harness from diff years. that car was the o2 sensor harness i believe, but this car harness was the original and was never touched, as well as the rest of the car. not sure what did it , i was just guessing what might of caused it.but i know what it took to fix,as i stated above. somehow 12 volts went to that 5 volt ground feed back to the commuter.
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
what happens when that part of the computer burns out how does the car run or act
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
ttt about above question
[ April 21, 2010, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707 ]
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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username1822
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Member # 8583
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posted
I believe that only the 94+ cars need to swap ECU's when doing the swap because the AODE (94/95) and 4r70w (96+) shift points are controlled by the ecu.
[ April 21, 2010, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: username1822 ]
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95 GT
Posts: 324 | From: Modesto | Registered: Aug 2008
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Duncan Motors
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Member # 7045
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posted
the car will hunt continuous for a happy point and will never find a idle and fuel ratio, not ziltch. cause the ground that burn is the main signal for all the sensors, air flow meter, o2, air temp, water temp, even the tps, and egr i think. it has no info for what is running good so it will just do crazy shit. normally if one sensor would go out .it would read another sensor to rely on. but there was no sensors to read. they all run off that ground signal. it was dumping way to much gas tho.. when it wouldnt start, and u thought it was the dis module cause of heat soak. it would start if u held the gas pedal down.
Posts: 6310 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Sep 2006
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AIRFORMANCE MOBILE AUTO A/C 707
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Member # 6243
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
[QB] i patched the computer , made sure the one plug was not connected
what plug was that
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1993 red cobra
1973 celica chevy 406/t5/narrow 9
1969 camaro
1992 lx hatch
Posts: 666 | From: vallejo | Registered: Nov 2005
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AbominableSnoman...
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Member # 8290
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posted
I don't know anything about this situation personally, I just wanted to chime in real quick and simply say I haven't heard of Jeremy doing any bad work, or having bad business. Nothing but good stuff really, and I know a few other members can say the same. On that note, its kinda hard to pinpoint who caused this to happen. Could go either way. Seems like some have had issues and some haven't at all With keeping that stock auto comp. I think it comes down to how the matters were handled after the fact.
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"I aint no crip, but i bleed blue..."
Posts: 1348 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Mar 2008
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AbominableSnoman...:
I think it comes down to how the matters were handled after the fact.
Exactly. And you know what? Shit happens. It'll get fixed, all will be fine, the world isn't going to end in 2012. Jeremy is a great dude, he'll figure it out.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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