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Author
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Topic: What to do to Engine
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z pyro
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Member # 3745
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posted
 
 
k, I just took the bare block and heads to get hot tanked. How much does it usually cost to get new valve seals put in, since the hot tanking destroys them? What about a hone job?
When I get the stuff back from the shop, what else should be done before putting it back together (if anything)? I know I have to get some freeze plugs and some oil passage plugs (the things that you have to use an Allen wrench type bit to get out, on either side of the block), but is there anything else? I also am going to port the heads myself, and afterwards probably get a valve job done. I have the gasket set, and all new bearings (main, rod, cam). How do you get the cam bearings out/in without screwing things up?
I'm going to be putting a B-cam in as well. What should the stock springs have specs wise to put the cam in and not have problems? If I do need new ones, what size/type should I get? What about valves?
Is there anything else I'm forgetting? I want to be sure I cover all of the bases. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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'95 Integra LS
'08 Buell XB12R Firebolt
'65 Mustang 289 - soon to be 306
Posts: 1732 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
have the machine shop put the cam bearings in
the "oil" passage plus u are reffering to are actually water passage plugs
if u see mark gray lx tell him whats up for me , dudes in a phat house ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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z pyro
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Member # 3745
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posted
u sure? that's not what the haynes guide said... and there wasn't any rust like in all the rest of the water passages, just some black crud.
so how much do these machine shop procedures usually cost?
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'95 Integra LS
'08 Buell XB12R Firebolt
'65 Mustang 289 - soon to be 306
Posts: 1732 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
trust me, the plugs on the side of the motor are water passages, the oil filter is the only oil passage on the sides
no clue on how much the machine so charges
take the allen head plus out of the motor, some water should come out, u might need to tuen it upside down, but they are water passages
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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z pyro
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Member # 3745
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posted
no, no water at all came out. like i said, there was just black junk in the holes. all of the water has been out of the engine for a while, and I had it down to bare block today when I took it into the shop. the only thing falling out was rust chips and other stuff from the water passages.
so the valve seals are in the gasket set, i had forgotten about those...
what about springs? what should I get for those?
is there anything else to do before throwing it all together?
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'95 Integra LS
'08 Buell XB12R Firebolt
'65 Mustang 289 - soon to be 306
Posts: 1732 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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88DroptopGT
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Member # 2535
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posted
Shop around for machine shop prices as prices vary widely. Brass freeze plugs can be installed for about $50-75, not including the price of the plugs themselves. You can actually do it yourself if you obtain the special puller to get them. To get the cam bearing in/out, you would need to buy a special tool from Summit, but I would just let a machine shop do it. A hone job can cost anywhere from $100 to $250 for a trick torque-plate hone on high-end engines. Are you staying with stock bore or going .020+. If you are boring-out the engine, remember you will need new internals to properly fit the bigger bore size. That increases cost.
You can put valve seals in yourself, with a valve spring compressor and some needle pliers if you dis-assemble them yourself. Have a buddy to help you out and with the right tools, you can get it done in about 2 hours casually. Usually when you hot-tank your heads, they are completly disassembled for through cleaning. I would do that myself to save about $150 in labor.
The Allen wrench "type bits" you are talking about are water passages, and you don't really have to replace those since they are simply independent parts of the block. The machine shop should take them out for hot-tanking anyway, I believe.
As for the heads, I would finish the short block first while finding what combos work. I don't know much about T-bird and their heads/valving. A b-cam would work well with some 1.90/1.60 valves if you're using stock piston heads 302-wise.
Posts: 3978 | From: 707 | Registered: Mar 2003
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z pyro
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Member # 3745
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posted
well i had everything disassembled, completely bare. the only things left were the cam bearings and the valve seals, nothing else. freeze plugs, the water passage plugs, valvetrain, everything was off so I could spend the least am. of money as possible.
I'm not boring it out, cuz I'm on a budget.
So you need a puller to put the freeze plugs in? I thought you just popped them into place with a big socket and hammer/mallet.
I have access to all kinds of special tools, cuz the auto shop is right next door to the room I'm working in (my gf's dad is the tech ed teacher). So i used the spring compressor to take off the springs, a piston ring land cleaner to clean the crap out of the ring lands, etc. Are the seals changed by just pulling the old ones out and pushing the new ones in?
And the engine isn't a T-Bird engine. the one that's in the car right now is, it's a SO 5.0. This engine I'm building is a HO 5.0 from an 87 Stang. They're E7TE heads, the pistons have the 4 valve reliefs, etc. I was going to port the heads myself, put the B-cam in and convert to Mass Air so as to not have any running problems.
So, after hot-tanking, i need to:
Get the cam bearings in/out
Put in new valve seals
Put in new freeze plugs
is that all to do before putting it all back together?
Posts: 1732 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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289fia_cobra
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Member # 3813
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posted
This sounds like all you want to get out of this first rebuild is experience and some mild performance, am I correct? Good little learner project if it is. IF you're NOT taking this to a machine shop, (not sure why other than cost) then at least hone the bores out to get the proper crosshatching (30 deg.?) and break out the plastigauge to ensure you're at least within tolerances at the crank journals.
Not sure about the seals. Hopefully someone will answer. Maybe give a local cyc.head guy a call and ask them how it's done. Generally they're pressed in so the assumption IMO, is to simply drive them out with some type of punch.
Posts: 66 | From: Sunnyvale, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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z pyro
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Member # 3745
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 289fia_cobra:
This sounds like all you want to get out of this first rebuild is experience and some mild performance, am I correct? Good little learner project if it is. IF you're NOT taking this to a machine shop, (not sure why other than cost) then at least hone the bores out to get the proper crosshatching (30 deg.?) and break out the plastigauge to ensure you're at least within tolerances at the crank journals.
Not sure about the seals. Hopefully someone will answer. Maybe give a local cyc.head guy a call and ask them how it's done. Generally they're pressed in so the assumption IMO, is to simply drive them out with some type of punch.
pretty much, it's not like this thing is going to be a regular @ the track, but I'd like to see what I can get out of it on a budget. speaking of which, my last paycheck was $195. so there's the reason I don't want too much machine shop work done. I have to pay for gas, insurance, and any other unforseen costs, so I get to spend maybe %25 of my paychecks ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
a hone job costs ~ $40 around here, and I can't even afford that right now. so it's either do it myself with the bottlebrush hone at school, or wait another 2 weeks just to have the shop do it. being broke sucks ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
[ March 10, 2004, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: zpyro35 ]
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'95 Integra LS
'08 Buell XB12R Firebolt
'65 Mustang 289 - soon to be 306
Posts: 1732 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Nov 2003
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166 Merlo
FELONY
MOTORSPORTS
Member # 1549
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by zpyro35:
So you need a puller to put the freeze plugs in? I thought you just popped them into place with a big socket and hammer/mallet.
That's how I did it
I sprayed a little copper gasket glue on the plugs just before i tapped them in ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
[ March 10, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: 87 Saleen ]
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'89 - Boss Coupe
'70 - Drop Cutthang
'68 - Cougnut
'87 - 0166, Its real
Posts: 3953 | From: Thebay | Registered: Jul 2002
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