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Author
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Topic: Supercharger Vs. Timing
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
 
 
I've been driving around with my supercharger on for awhile now and after install I put it down to 8 degrees advanced initial timing from 14 degrees when it was naturally aspirated. So far I get a little pinging if I go WOT quickly.
I have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but it will be put onto the new engine.
Mods Are:
-Paxton SN 2000 w/Upgraded Impeller(have seen 7.5psi on my boost gauge)
-UPR Boostmaster 4" Inlet Pipe
-BBK Shorty Non Equal Length Headers
-Off Road H Pipe(stock with hollowed cats)
-MSD 6AL Box
-MSD Blaster Coil
-MSD Wires 8.5mm
-Electric Fan
-FMS 42lb Injectors
-C&L 76mm MAF
-K&N Filter
-Aluminum Radiator
-BBK 70mm Throttle Body and Spacer
-Walbro 255lph In Tank Pump
-Edelbrock Breather Filter on Valve Cover Filler Neck
-Flowmaster Delta 40 Mufflers
Other Info:
-Stock H/C/I (engine has ~120k miles)
-Stock Fuel Rails
-Stock Fuel Pressure Regulator(less than 5k miles on it)
-Stock Pullies
-All Vacuum Lines Replaced/zip tied
-New PCV Valve
-Autolite 24 Copper Plugs Gapped @ .038"
-Cap, Rotor, Wires Less than 5k miles
-EGR/Sensor Less than 5k miles
-Barometric Pressure Sensor less than 5k miles
-Bosch o2 Sensors less than 1k miles
Just curious if more timing would be safe, or should I stick with 8 degrees, or even lower timing?
[ October 31, 2011, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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2BlueGeeTees
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Member # 4702
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posted
What kind of fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator are you running? Do you have a wide band A/F gauge. What is your air/fuel running at? You may want to look into a professional tune. Nobody wants to waste good money on there combo because of the car not being tuned correctly!
Posts: 2316 | From: Vacaville | Registered: Jul 2004
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2BlueGeeTees:
What kind of fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator are you running? Do you have a wide band A/F gauge. What is your air/fuel running at? You may want to look into a professional tune. Nobody wants to waste good money on there combo because of the car not being tuned correctly!
Original Post Updated to include more info. I do not have an wideband installed yet. I plan on getting one soon. I planned on a tune once my new engine is built. No sense in spending a bunch of $ on an engine that will only be in for a couple more months.
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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CobraCoupe
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Member # 7233
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posted
Man that's the stock plug gap for N/A if your running boost gotta tighten the gap down to like .32-.35 and run one stage colder...Oh yea leave the timing at 10
[ September 24, 2011, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: CobraCoupe ]
Posts: 663 | From: Hayward | Registered: Nov 2006
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1fastmach1
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Member # 10137
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posted
u need 2 get a wideband a/f ratio and yeah close ur spark plug gapp 2 around .30-35 and go one heat range colder also u need 2 get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator
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REDLINE MOTORSPORTS CC EST 2011
1993 CHP sold
2004 mach 1 408 Windsor n20 fed
R.I.P. JORGE GUTIERREZ JR
6/13/1982- 11/05/2013
Posts: 2592 | From: clawwwitter to 7th st | Registered: Jul 2010
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 79 cobra:
u need 2 get a wideband a/f ratio and yeah close ur spark plug gapp 2 around .30-35 and go one heat range colder also u need 2 get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator
I plan on getting a wideband soon. I thought about the gap change and plan on lowering it down a bit. It's running fine so far, but my plugs are probably about due for a change anyway, so that'll be an easy swap. I have an adjustable FPR already, but it's for my professional products fuel rail kit which is brand new and will go onto the motor I'm building
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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1bad93
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Member # 11094
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by CobraCoupe:
Man that's the stock plug gap for N/A if your running boost gotta tighten the gap down to like .32-.35 and run one stage colder...Oh yea leave the timing at 10
X2
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93 NOTCH WINDSOR N/A 9.90/1.4 60'137 mph at 6500 feet. have not made a full pass here,yet.....
95 SVT COBRA
Posts: 20 | From: Walnut Creek | Registered: Jul 2011
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 1bad93:
quote:
Originally posted by CobraCoupe:
Man that's the stock plug gap for N/A if your running boost gotta tighten the gap down to like .32-.35 and run one stage colder...Oh yea leave the timing at 10
X2
I pulled all of my plugs and put the gap down to .035". The first time I stepped on it I had detonation BAD! It also could have been that it was the first 100 degree day driving with the supercharger, but in any case I turned the timing down to 9* advanced and so far no detonation has occured.
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
I day 10 degrees and call it real
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I day 10 degrees and call it real
At 10* I had some really bad detonation, so I had to turn it down to 9* and it seems fine so far
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I day 10 degrees and call it real
At 10* I had some really bad detonation, so I had to turn it down to 9* and it seems fine so far
Wow. 1 degree of initial caused really bad detonation huh.......
PUT A WIDEBAND ON IT!!
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I day 10 degrees and call it real
At 10* I had some really bad detonation, so I had to turn it down to 9* and it seems fine so far
Wow. 1 degree of initial caused really bad detonation huh.......
PUT A WIDEBAND ON IT!!
I cannot say for sure. The problem showed up immediately after I changed my spark plug gap from .054 down to .035. I didn't have any audible detonation problems before that. Yesterday was also the first 100+ degree day I have driven with the supercharger on. I turned the timing down since I knew that could fix the problem and so far it has.
I plan on putting a wideband on it. You have to give me time, shit... Every spare dollar for the past several months has been going into this car I can only afford so much.
[ September 30, 2011, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I day 10 degrees and call it real
At 10* I had some really bad detonation, so I had to turn it down to 9* and it seems fine so far
Wow. 1 degree of initial caused really bad detonation huh.......
PUT A WIDEBAND ON IT!!
I cannot say for sure. The problem showed up immediately after I changed my spark plug gap from .054 down to .035. I didn't have any audible detonation problems before that. Yesterday was also the first 100+ degree day I have driven with the supercharger on. I turned the timing down since I knew that could fix the problem and so far it has.
I plan on putting a wideband on it. You have to give me time, shit... Every spare dollar for the past several months has been going into this car I can only afford so much.
You have two days to get that wideband on!!!!
haha j/k
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
I day 10 degrees and call it real
At 10* I had some really bad detonation, so I had to turn it down to 9* and it seems fine so far
Wow. 1 degree of initial caused really bad detonation huh.......
PUT A WIDEBAND ON IT!!
I cannot say for sure. The problem showed up immediately after I changed my spark plug gap from .054 down to .035. I didn't have any audible detonation problems before that. Yesterday was also the first 100+ degree day I have driven with the supercharger on. I turned the timing down since I knew that could fix the problem and so far it has.
I plan on putting a wideband on it. You have to give me time, shit... Every spare dollar for the past several months has been going into this car I can only afford so much.
You have two days to get that wideband on!!!!
haha j/k
Are the narrow band gauges worth a crap, or just a waste?
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
Changed my plugs to Autolite 24 Copper Plugs and put the gap at .038. I still get a tiny bit of detonation if I mash on it quickly. If I slowly accelerate and get moving pretty good then go WOT I don't get any detonation. Timing is at 8* should I retard it more?
[ October 17, 2011, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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92stangLX
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Member # 3252
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posted
Set your initial timing at 10 degrees, run a BTM and pull 1-2 degrees of timing per pound of boost.
Posts: 5302 | From: San Francisco | Registered: Sep 2003
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trickflow211
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Member # 8503
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posted
I got a btm for 130$ if u need one
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1990 Cobra Clone 421 Tq 420 Hp
Need General Contractor Services? 925-338-5422 serving East Bay Area over 20yrs
Posts: 2449 | From: Pittsburg/Sacramento | Registered: Jul 2008
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copcar
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Member # 10113
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posted
Pull two degrees of timing. Keep in mind the timing marker is not a machined, perfectly calibrated piece. Couple that with manufacturing variances with the balancer and you may actually be running more timing than is indicated.
[ October 19, 2011, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: copcar ]
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12.37@ 109.34.NA 894DA Old Nitto 555 DR's Gt40 irons. B cam/1.7's, All emissions equipment on the car, stock air box. UPR catted X pipe.
Posts: 485 | Registered: Jun 2010
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
Heard more detonation today and turned the timing down to 4* after installing the UPR Boostmaster 4" inlet pipe
[ October 28, 2011, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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2BlueGeeTees
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Member # 4702
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posted
It seems like you have too many unknown variables too completely figure this out over the Internet. Did you ever get that wideband? And like previously stated the accuracy of your timing marks can be playing a major factor. Another thing to keep in mind is just because you don't hear a ping doesn't mean you aren't getting detonation. So be careful mashing the gas until you have it dialed in. I completely understand not wanting to spend a lot on tuning because you have another build in the works but you may want to consider it if you can't get her dialed in.
Posts: 2316 | From: Vacaville | Registered: Jul 2004
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2BlueGeeTees:
It seems like you have too many unknown variables too completely figure this out over the Internet. Did you ever get that wideband? And like previously stated the accuracy of your timing marks can be playing a major factor. Another thing to keep in mind is just because you don't hear a ping doesn't mean you aren't getting detonation. So be careful mashing the gas until you have it dialed in. I completely understand not wanting to spend a lot on tuning because you have another build in the works but you may want to consider it if you can't get her dialed in.
I havent picked up a wideband yet. I am not sure whag I'm gonna pick up next. I was thinking msd btm, adjustable fpr, or wideband. Maybe I'll try reducing my spark plugs gap back down to .035 first. When I went to one step colder plugs I increased my gap from .035 to .038. I may change my fuel filter too eventhough it's not even a year old and not even 5k miles. Theyre cheap and an easy install. Another idea was to put a gallon of e85 in with a tank of gas to increase octane a little. That worked wonders on my srt4 before switching to 100% e85
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
I called up CUNDN Racing to ask them some questions about my setup. Unfortunately all of their techs were gone for the day, but the woman that answered the phone asked me some questions. As it turns out I forgot to unplug the hose that goes from the valve cover to the throttle body and cap the ends. I already had a breather installed, but for some reason I wasn't taking into account that means that there was un metered air entering into the engine etc. I removed the hose and capped both ends. Turned the Timing back up to right about 8* advanced and no audible detonation so far. I'm going to drive it for a couple days and see how it goes.
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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Jaejae5.0
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Member # 7958
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posted
haha fail
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1987 notchback h/c/i 302 & 70mm turbo SOLD
2000 camaro ss cam only
Posts: 4890 | From: the combustion chamber | Registered: Oct 2007
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FivePTSlow
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Member # 7682
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae:
haha fail
Think that was really the problem? It really is a hinderance having a pretty decent amount of car knowledge sometimes. I'm always looking for something major to be wrong. Sometimes it is the simple things haha
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2011 GT/CS 5.0 + Boost(Procharger)
90 Bronco 5.8 Lifted
05 SRT-4 24PSI E-85 at least 50 million hp
07 Harley VROD NRS Stage 1
Posts: 1857 | From: Sacramento | Registered: May 2007
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Nitmare67
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Member # 9846
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posted
Get a wideband on it and get the AFR down around 11.5. Once you have that out of the way dial the timing in.
Posts: 77 | From: Modesto | Registered: Mar 2010
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