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Author
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Topic: How much hp from a Vortech T-trim
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Hater
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Member # 3085
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posted
 
 
In a near future I would like to install a Vortech T-trim on my 01 mustang,,since I have a bullet proof block,,I want to get the most out of it,,Without porting my heads or adding cams,,whats the most horsepower i could get with that blower using 91 octane fuel?
Posts: 168 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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Would you be using any type of inter/aftercooler or water/methnol injection? What compression ratio is the shortblock?
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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TRIXSNK
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Member # 2844
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posted
I'm not too sure about the T trim specifically but it seems like that would be a less efficient blower for your non-ported but fully built motor than say another trim (S, SQ) etc.
The reason i say that is because on 91 pump that will probably be the limiting factor for utmost timing and fuel curves. Also would depend upon your fuel set-up situation.
It's obviuos that the blower could put out lots of CFM but w/o the proper amount of fuel for safety you would be cutting down the efficiency of the big blower by not having the heads/cams to flow the same rate throught the motor.
Granted you could i'm sure make over 400+ but on 91...if you wnet up in boost you'd probably have to sacrifice a lot of timing to keep it safe?
Hope i make some sense and this is all from previous experience and learned info about forced induction.
I'm sure there is a compressor map just like for turbos that could be read to figure out where exactly all that power would be useful and w/ type of fuel octane and timing.....i just haven't researched that for blowers...
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9 Sec EVO 9 is GONE!
New project in the works.......
Posts: 3740 | From: Bay Area | Registered: May 2003
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
Are we talking a GT or Cobra. I know there was a cobra that year and I think a GT as well. Not sure though. Let me know.
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R.I.P. Charlie Bruno Dec 2001
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
its a gt with a built motor for nitrous/pump gas
the motor was built for a large nitrous hit so the rings gap is gonna be huge, its gonna be atleast 10:1, so not real blower friendly with pump gas
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
Ring Gap on Blower motors is as large or larger than with NOS. That should not be a issue. With that high of compresion you will have to be careful on the tune. I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost. on stock engines figure 10 HP per every pound of boost on modified engines it can be 13 to 17 HP per pound of boost, These are rough guess figures I have read.
[ November 25, 2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
Ring Gap on Blower motors is as large or larger than with NOS. That should not be a issue. With that high of compresion you will have to be careful on the tune. I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost. on stock engines figure 10 HP per every pound of boost on modified engines it can be 13 to 17 HP per pound of boost, These are rough guess figures I have read.
![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif) water injection!
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
I'm not too sure about the T trim specifically but it seems like that would be a less efficient blower for your non-ported but fully built motor than say another trim (S, SQ) etc.
Agreed. The S-trim would be a much better choice for your combo.
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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BlackNGold
CaliforniaFords.com
Moderator
Member # 655
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost.
Water doesn't compress...If used incorrectly it will jack your motor...I mean, you would have to use a lot of water, but I still don't like the idea...It's kinda like a poor mans intercooler...Plus an intercooler is always there, you don't have to worry about running out of water/alch....
Yeah, I would just pulley down an S-trim for your combo...
Just my .02
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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-
Posts: 5132 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
Black and Gold you obvously don't know how the systems work. You hardly use any of the mix and systems have alams so unless you are a complete moron you will never run out. These kits are highly thought out and designed and run on some of the fastest cars around they are really popular on turbo vehicals. Any how it isn't your grandpa's water injection. Plus last time I checked Gass doesn't compress in liquid form either.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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BlackNGold
CaliforniaFords.com
Moderator
Member # 655
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posted
Gas will ignite water doesn't...
ANYWAY, without getting into a heated detate it still doesn't change the fact that you either have to rely on pressureized tanks or pumps to run a water injection system...
I've looked into getting a water injection kit for my Merkur for a while and after reading a lot of info I just felt that an intercooler would be a better choice, especially for me....
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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-
Posts: 5132 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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TRIXSNK
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Member # 2844
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff S:
As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.
Exactly becasue you wouldn't want to be running that close to the threshold of breaking as far as tune goes w/o the water inj. anyway........i would always prefer to run an inter/after cooler in comparison to H20 inj. if at all feasable.
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9 Sec EVO 9 is GONE!
New project in the works.......
Posts: 3740 | From: Bay Area | Registered: May 2003
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
I run a 50/50 mix of water and methonal it ignites. I guess a 1500 dollar intercooler for my car plus the battery relocation kit would have been alot better than the 300.00 dollars I have invested in my boost cooler, but I am very happy with the way I went. Plus I like the extra HP and more boost I get out of doing it the way I did ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff S:
As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.
This is quite true. If you were to run out of water/meth your air intake temps would rise. Thus a properly tuned car would have it's timing verses air intake values set up for such a situation. In other words as temps leave the 80 degree or so range which is normal for an intercooler/water injected car the chip would simply reach an air temp range where timing is reduced.
Each method of cooling air intake charges has it's downfalls. Water to air such as a Vortech aftercooler can suffer from heat soaking the water after prolonged use. Air to air coolers can suffer from extremely hot days and of course water injection requires the re-fill of the storage tank. You can't beat the cost of water injection. It is reliable. As reliable as any other system which requires a pump to move fluid. Included in most good systems is a LED which lights up when the system is active. No light no cooler basically. Some people want a no fuss cooling system. Basically air to air is the only thing not requiring any up keep. Water to air is close though you will need to fill the storage tank from time to time.
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
I'd consider this as what I would do in your situation. If no air intake cooler is present I'd stick to a S-trim. If you are running some sort of a cooler a T-trim would be what I would buy. As far as horsepower #'s go it depends on what you end up with both blower trim letter and also if a cooler is present
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R.I.P. Charlie Bruno Dec 2001
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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RobertTS
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Member # 1022
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posted
My engine was not exactly built for nitrous,,my compression is 9.2:1..so Its basically the stock compression.
Posts: 78 | From: California | Registered: Mar 2002
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BlackNGold
CaliforniaFords.com
Moderator
Member # 655
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
I run a 50/50 mix of water and methonal it ignites. I guess a 1500 dollar intercooler for my car plus the battery relocation kit would have been alot better than the 300.00 dollars I have invested in my boost cooler, but I am very happy with the way I went. Plus I like the extra HP and more boost I get out of doing it the way I did
Mmm, I paid $30 for a Volvo 740 intercooler at the junk yard for my force fed engine...I won't have to relocate my battery either... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
To each their own!.. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-
Posts: 5132 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
why don't you post some pics and some performance numbers. I would really like to see how it turned out and what results you are getting thanks. Do you think a intercooler designed for a turbo 4 cyl is going to be enough for a supercharged V-8?
[ November 26, 2004, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Water does ignite at fairly high temps. It also compresses....just not very easily. Probably due to the oxygen in it. Ever wonder why a water contaminated brake system gives you a squishy pedal?
The water/meth setups are highly effective when tuned correctly. They also make for a very clean motor! I'm all for those setups.....although in my case I'd rather spend the $300 on 100octane. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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BlackNGold
CaliforniaFords.com
Moderator
Member # 655
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
why don't you post some pics and some performance numbers. I would really like to see how it turned out and what results you are getting thanks. Do you think a intercooler designed for a turbo 4 cyl is going to be enough for a supercharged V-8?
As soon as I install the Volvo or whatever intercooler I would love to take some pics and post results...Right now I would be happy to find the time to even fix a T-stat housing leak and even wash the damn car!...
To answer your question, intercoolers are designed to run at certain CFM, whatever gives you the best cooling with minimal pressure drop is what you should use...I think my 3" inlet and outlets with a core bigger than my radiator should cool my intake charge, but I'll probably loose atleast a few pounds of boost...But that's why I made my own "OSH special" boost controller...
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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-
Posts: 5132 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
extra HP for me then just buy adding water/meth
[ November 27, 2004, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
I'd like to see some data on the combustion of H20, also it's compressability.
The last doc I saw on the compressability of water performed in a laboratory showed around 0.0001% compression for something like a million tons per square inch. So yes, technically compressible.
Combustible? Combustible in terms of super-plasma like temperatures and pressure?
Otherwise, water is most assuredly non-combustible. Once disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen, by definition it is no longer water.
my $0.01
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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