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Author
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Topic: Crazy ass Air Fuel Ratio?????????
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4RS FED
¯
Member # 2067
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posted
 
 
i am using a pms to tune my twin turbo car
i have no idea about it... i have a tune in it that a guy put in, seemed to work fine, now i have changed the intake and the roller rockers, and installed a boost controller in it.... i want to get your opinions on it........
here is the tune
Year model: 1991 mustang
Engine cubic inch: 306
Power Adder/NA: twin turbo
Amount of boost/nitrous: 8 psi
Intake: gt-40
Throttle Body: 75mm
Mass Air Meter: 3.5 Univ blow thru
Intake Piping:3 inch after intercooler
Cylinder Head & rockers: 351 gt-40 heads with O-rings 1.7 roller rockers
Camshaft profile: f 303 cam
Injector Size: motorsport 42#
FMU type:none
Header size/type: 1 5/8-1 3/4
Fuel Pump(s):Aeromotive A1000
Rails: 1/2 inch
Supply/Return Line size:supply -8 return -6
Fuel type: pump gas 91 octane
IDLE Control On/Off: ON
fuel:
timing: +15*
start-up fuel: -40%
idle air adjuster: 63%
Low Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm: 0/0
4000rpm: 0/0
6000rpm: 0/0
7800rpm: 0/0
Medium Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm: 0/0
4000rpm: 0/0
6000rpm: 0/0
7800rpm: 0/0
High Load (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm: 0/ +12*
4000rpm: 0/ +10*
6000rpm: 0/ +8*
7800rpm: 0/ +6*
WOT (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm: +12% / +12*
4000rpm: +10%/ +0*
6000rpm: +8%/ +0*
7800rpm: +6%/ +0*
Boost or Tables: (Fuel first & Timing second)
Max Boost setting: 15
@1 psi
2200rpm: +0 /-7*
4000rpm: +0 /-7*
6000rpm: +0/ -7*
7800rpm: +0/ -7*
@Max Boost
2200rpm: +14% / -18*
4000rpm: +12% / -15*
6000rpm: +12% / -15*
7800rpm: +12% / -15*
Standalone On/Off: ON
Rev Limiter: 7000
all pulls were with 8 psi of boost
anyhow.. here is the A/F graph
it is using a wideband that was installed in the drivers side down pipe about 24 inches from the outlet of the turbo....
looks crazy!!!!!!
here is the horsepower graph.....
here is the torque graph.......
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i have a twin turbo mustang and you don't!
Posts: 3686 | From: 650 | Registered: Nov 2002
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
Yikes that thing runs way to lean from 2100 to 5000 rpms. I'm a little suprised they didn't wave the run off. It's fat at the very top where you would be making your peak numbers. When I worked next to the dyno ideal was an air/fuel which followed a pretty consistant path of 12.0:1 to 12.5:1 for forced induction. Your AFR is all over the map. I don't know a whole lot about PMS but I have seen people tune it well. From what I've seen with it it's about making minor adjustments and than doing a run and so on till you achieve the results.
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
get on stang tuning, there are a ton of pms tuners on there
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
WOT (Fuel first & Timing second)
2200rpm: +12% / +12*
4000rpm: +10%/ +0*
6000rpm: +8%/ +0*
7800rpm: +6%/ +0*
I'd start by increasing fuel from 2200 up to 5000 but remember I am no expert with this system. It's just what I would do based on other tuning methods I have seen. Make small changes and the thing that sucks is you'll be renting the dyno for at least 1-2 hours to properly do it
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R.I.P. Charlie Bruno Dec 2001
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
And theres the reason why you most likely lifted your head gasket. Same car right?
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R.I.P. Charlie Bruno Dec 2001
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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BlackNGold
CaliforniaFords.com
Moderator
Member # 655
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posted
What happens at 3,100rpm?...It's obvious thats when things start to happen....When do you see full boost?....
I wish I could help you more....
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-SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT-
Posts: 5132 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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John91coupe
CAFords OG
Member # 18
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posted
I know this is going to sound crazy but here's what I would do at this point. Contact Byron Reynolds and arrange to get a custom chip and some dyno time. You would have a really good chance at getting that screwy A/F ratio in line through the chip work and then use the PMS for fine tuning for weather conditions, fuel octane, etc. You would most likely need to set your PMS fuel settings to neutral/zero and the timing to something conservative to start with and let the custom chip do the heavy work. Just a suggestion.
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D-2R ProCharged R302 331
1.410 60 ft.
5.784 @ 122.92 1/8
8.953 @ 155.08
MM&FF Feature June 2003
Posts: 1361 | From: Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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mustanggt5091
All I need is.....
Member # 444
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posted
I would start by adding fuel in the medium throttle maps, you dont have any thing added for fuel ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) If the tune sheldon did is on set 1 for instance, save al your data to set 2 and that way you can toggle back and forth to see the differences to make sure you are going in the right direction! I am still learning the PMS system myself, lots of shit you can do!!!!!!!!!!
[ March 15, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: mustanggt5091 ]
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88 GT 357w (SOLD):(
06 Limited Edition R6 !!!!!
Posts: 2353 | From: Fairfield / Santa Rosa , Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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Jeff S
¯
Member # 371
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posted
There is NOT A SERIOUS PROBLEM with your AF ratio. There only appears to be a problem with your car being lean do to the fact the dyno operator is pressing the button to start recording info before you are going to WOT. As you can see in the RWHP graph you do not actually go WOT until ~3650rpm(which seems to be the case since you are only making 50hp and 75ft#'s at 3500rpm) at which point your car is running ~15:1 AF like it should be at part throttle.
You need to go WOT around 2000-2500rpm and have the dyno operator not start recording data until you are WOT.
After you go WOT the fuel curves could be flattened out with some timing of the fuel tables. The "spike" at 4500rpms is a flaw of the PMS's stand alone feature kicking in.
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jeff S
¯
Member # 371
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posted
I'm also confused by the "High Load" timing settings and the -7* being pulled at 1psi boost seems odd as well.
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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DropTopFox
drama
Member # 1689
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by John91coupe:
I know this is going to sound crazy but here's what I would do at this point. Contact Byron Reynolds and arrange to get a custom chip and some dyno time. You would have a really good chance at getting that screwy A/F ratio in line through the chip work and then use the PMS for fine tuning for weather conditions, fuel octane, etc. You would most likely need to set your PMS fuel settings to neutral/zero and the timing to something conservative to start with and let the custom chip do the heavy work. Just a suggestion.
Like I said Rob, have Byron do a flip chip, one side for the 5 psi tune and one side for the 16 psi tune ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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Go out and do something for yourself today everyone, quit depending on others
-Me
http://www.CaliforniaFords.com/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=00001689
Posts: 4003 | From: San Bruno | Registered: Aug 2002
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Jeff S
¯
Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by DropTopFox:
quote:
Originally posted by John91coupe:
I know this is going to sound crazy but here's what I would do at this point. Contact Byron Reynolds and arrange to get a custom chip and some dyno time. You would have a really good chance at getting that screwy A/F ratio in line through the chip work and then use the PMS for fine tuning for weather conditions, fuel octane, etc. You would most likely need to set your PMS fuel settings to neutral/zero and the timing to something conservative to start with and let the custom chip do the heavy work. Just a suggestion.
Like I said Rob, have Byron do a flip chip, one side for the 5 psi tune and one side for the 16 psi tune
Do you guys really think that a autologic chip is better than a PMS? Or is it that you think the person doing the tuning is the problem?
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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mtbaughs
Road Racer
Member # 4052
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posted
Either tuning method is good as long as the person knows what their doing. Most people have trouble with PMS and turn to Byron because he can make a perfect air fuel ratio across the RPM band. Take someone with a lot of experience with PMS and I think the same results can be had.
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R.I.P. Charlie Bruno Dec 2001
Posts: 2019 | From: Boise, Idaho | Registered: Jan 2004
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DropTopFox
drama
Member # 1689
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff S:
quote:
Originally posted by DropTopFox:
quote:
Originally posted by John91coupe:
I know this is going to sound crazy but here's what I would do at this point. Contact Byron Reynolds and arrange to get a custom chip and some dyno time. You would have a really good chance at getting that screwy A/F ratio in line through the chip work and then use the PMS for fine tuning for weather conditions, fuel octane, etc. You would most likely need to set your PMS fuel settings to neutral/zero and the timing to something conservative to start with and let the custom chip do the heavy work. Just a suggestion.
Like I said Rob, have Byron do a flip chip, one side for the 5 psi tune and one side for the 16 psi tune
Do you guys really think that a autologic chip is better than a PMS? Or is it that you think the person doing the tuning is the problem?
Idon't think rob nor anyone he's had on the PMS knows the system well enough to tune Rob's car. I'm sure the PMS is great if you know how to use it to your advantage, but it doesn't seem like Rob does at this point so why not have Byron do a quick fix on it until Rob learn's the PMS system inside and out
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Go out and do something for yourself today everyone, quit depending on others
-Me
http://www.CaliforniaFords.com/cgi-bin/album.pl?album=00001689
Posts: 4003 | From: San Bruno | Registered: Aug 2002
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166 Merlo
FELONY
MOTORSPORTS
Member # 1549
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posted
What's up with the first graph?! That's not a function. Not a function at all!!
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'89 - Boss Coupe
'70 - Drop Cutthang
'68 - Cougnut
'87 - 0166, Its real
Posts: 3953 | From: Thebay | Registered: Jul 2002
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
I have been throught the eectuner and the tweeker rt and finaly the epec. the BEST thing i ever did to figure out the systems was to buy a wide ban o2 sensor that data logged. It also logged rpm's and one 5 volt sensor. that was i could make small changes and see the AFR change. once i did that it was VERY easy to nail down the afr. just my two cents worth.
[ March 17, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: jmcclesk ]
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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mustanggt5091
All I need is.....
Member # 444
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by jmcclesk:
I have been throught the eectuner and the tweeker rt and finaly the epec. the BEST thing i ever did to figure out the systems was to buy a wide ban o2 sensor that data logged. It also logged rpm's and one 5 volt sensor. that was i could make small changes and see the AFR change. once i did that it was VERY easy to nail down the afr. just my two cents worth.
Thats exactly what I just did, I just purchased a LM-1 o2 sensor to aid in tuning my car with my PMS
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88 GT 357w (SOLD):(
06 Limited Edition R6 !!!!!
Posts: 2353 | From: Fairfield / Santa Rosa , Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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