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» Northern California Ford Owners     » Automotive   » Tech Talk   » EFI for 351w stroker (Page 1)

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Author Topic: EFI for 351w stroker
SLOpony
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Anyone have experience with the MAF setup on larger cubic inch engines? I am contemplating stroking a 351w to 408. So far the plans call for a wiring harness and 9al computer out of a fox body, but I would obviously need aftermarket injectors, maf sensor, intake, throttle body, etc. Just wondering if anybody has ideas for sizes or where I could find this kind of info. I'm currently just doing the research so I haven't bought anything yet so everything is flexible. Do you think this would be a good setup or should I just stick with the 351? Thanks
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
chosen1
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if you can afford to stroke the 351, do it. you wont regret it. there are several people on this board with 408's, some even fuel injected.

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1967 Fastback. Should go 10's -but doesn't
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Posts: 2205 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  :
Stimson
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Something like 36 lbs injectors and matching Pro-M MAF (make sure its not a supercharger calibrated MAF), TFS 351-R EFI intake and a custom chip frrom www.racesystems.com should work out nicely for you. It doesn't even have to be an A9L EEC, any mass-air EEC from a '88-93 5.O will work fine. Don't skimp out on the heads. 400+ cube motors can make good use of 300 cfm heads [burnout]

[ January 09, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]

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I've been thinking about AFR heads what do you think about those? Also, anyone have opinions about the Tweecer? From what I've read about it it seems to be a better option than just getting another chip every time I change something on the engine. Or maybe it's just a real big hassle...
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
Stimson
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AFR 205's will work great on a street stang all motor 408. The twEECer is a good option, but I would still have Byron@racesystems tune the twEECer for you because there are many many tuning tricks and not obvious things envolved and frankly, the gains don't justify taking the time to learn it yourself. Been there, done that [Smile]
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How about a 408(or 427), AFR 205's, EFI Spyder intake, 90mm TB, 92mm MAF, 50lb inj........ [Big Grin]

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Posts: 1785 | From: Livermore | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
Stimson
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Nice combo, but the TB, MAF and injectors are an over kill for this naturally asperated combo.
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quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Nice combo, but the TB, MAF and injectors are an over kill for this naturally asperated combo.

That is just my combo but it is a 427 not a 408, w/ n2o, and the cam is just a stock '95 s-351. Thanks for the compliment! [patriot]

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Posts: 1785 | From: Livermore | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
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The exhaust ports on those AFR's will respond nicely to the nitrous. You know that nitrous "makes" its own air in the combustion chamber so your big intake manifold, TB and MAF will show marginal gains since the extra "air" won't be flowing past them like it would be on a boosted car? I don't know about running a Saleen S351 cam in that thing though [Eek!]
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quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
The exhaust ports on those AFR's will respond nicely to the nitrous. You know that nitrous "makes" its own air in the combustion chamber so your big intake manifold, TB and MAF will show marginal gains since the extra "air" won't be flowing past them like it would be on a boosted car? I don't know about running a Saleen S351 cam in that thing though [Eek!]

Well the n2o is on the car as it is and I'm not going to take it off and I have yet to buy the MAF but I wil probably go 92mm instead of 80, I don't believe the MAF and TB are overkill, and it is not like the car is set up for nitrous, it is just there. I could always get crazy and throw a supercharger putting out 14psi on a 10.0:1 compression engine and make 775hp [Eek!]

Oh, and the cam is just one that is sitting in my garage so I am going to see how that one works out on the motor first.

[ January 09, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: 7.0L ]

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Posts: 1785 | From: Livermore | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
SLOpony
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Sorry but I'm new to this EFI stuff...what is a Spyder intake? I don't think I've seen one around. Where could I find one? How do they compare with the Trick Flow intakes?
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
Chris M.
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quote:
Originally posted by 7.0L:
How about a 408(or 427), AFR 205's, EFI Spyder intake, 90mm TB, 92mm MAF, 50lb inj........ [Big Grin]

is it a 4.125 bore 427 or just the 4.170 stroke 427?

My combo is a 408, TFS 205s, TFS intake, 75 mm tb, NO MAF, 15-18 lbs of boost and 50 lb injectors. My injectors might be on the small side for my combo but i think for your set up 50 lbers might be a bit much unless you have a dry kit and an aftermarket computer which added more fuel through the injectors (which it doesn't sound like you have). even 42 might be too much.

also how big is the dish in your piston to bring it back down to 10:1?

wookdawg, if you have to buy everything then you might want to look into some after market ECUs (F.A.S.T., Accel DFI, Holley Commander950) which all toss the MAF in the garbage and use speed density. They start at about $1000 and come with the software, computer, wiring and sensors.
as far as the intake goes, it depends on what rpm you want, i've heard the spider intake is only good for blower cars or (when used w/ all motor/nitrous cars) very very high rpms. Problem with that is you have atleast a 4" stroke and the piston is moving a lot faster per rpm so big strokers arent meant to rev into the 8,000 rpm range unless it's a race motor that isn't going to last anyway.

quote:
400+ cube motors can make good use of 300 cfm heads
what about 320 cfm heads?
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  :
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quote:
Originally posted by SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE:
is it a 4.125 bore 427 or just the 4.170 stroke 427?

My combo is a 408, TFS 205s, TFS intake, 75 mm tb, NO MAF, 15-18 lbs of boost and 50 lb injectors. My injectors might be on the small side for my combo but i think for your set up 50 lbers might be a bit much unless you have a dry kit and an aftermarket computer which added more fuel through the injectors (which it doesn't sound like you have). even 42 might be too much.

also how big is the dish in your piston to bring it back down to 10:1?

It is the 4.170 stroke. And as for the injectors, oh well, I already bought them, if they are too big, I guess I'll have to buy a supercharger [Eek!]

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Posts: 1785 | From: Livermore | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
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An aftermarket EFI system...interesting thought. I guess after buying a tweecer, getting it tuned, and buying all the MAF stuff I'd be in the same price range. Anybody use an aftermarket EFI setup with a blower or turbos?
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
Chris M.
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quote:
Originally posted by wookdawg:
An aftermarket EFI system...interesting thought. I guess after buying a tweecer, getting it tuned, and buying all the MAF stuff I'd be in the same price range. Anybody use an aftermarket EFI setup with a blower or turbos?

me, jeff s, trbo50, yellow67stang (nitrous, no boost), and probably some others that i forgot. Jeff S is the only lame-o without a stroked windsor.

I think I'm the only one with an accel DFI computer, i think the others all have a FAST computer, trbo50 might have a Motec.

DFI ($1,200 from summit) is cheaper than FAST. I bought it because I just wanted something to put on my car that would work and Accel has a list of people that they have personally trained to tune their computers. (the list is on their website www.mrgasket.com)
If you're running a blower/turbo then you'll need to buy a 2 bar or 3 bar MAP sensor ($50) depending on how much boost you plan on running. Other than that, everything else is in the kit.
They are tuned with a laptop (not included) so you never need to buy new chips and they have cool ass data loggers so when you beat your friends while only at half throttle, you can prove it. [Big Grin]
The big negative about Speed Density instead of Mass Air is that any engine combo chance usually requires some tweeking of the computer.

An aftermarket computer would be definitly more expensive.

Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  :
SLOpony
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Thanks for the advice...I think I'm going to seriously look into the dfi and fast. I hadn't considered them before because from what I was told speed density was an obsolete system and mass airflow was so much better. But I was figuring on having to make computer adjustments anyways ...which do you use - the bank to bank or sequential dfi system?
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
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Get the Bank to Bank. Its cheaper and the sequential can be added at a later time if you really want it. You probably wont need it considering you can use the bank for at least 1500hp to my knowledge. The sequential is just more tunability.

I would not buy the "spyder" intake from Coast. I would just get rails and bungs installed into whatever manifold you want. With a 4.170 stroke you will probably need a victor serious manifold.

Personally, I would opt for the TFS high ports. You can go from mild to wild with those heads.

Let me know if you need anymore help.

Eric

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Posts: 371 | From: Ca. | Registered: Feb 2002  |  :
Chris M.
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i use bank to bank, for sequential you need a cam sensor (i dont understand why they cant use a signal from the distributor since it's in sinc with the cam) which i couldnt be bothered to deal with. I just wanted a daily driver with as little hassle as possible.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  :
SLOpony
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Chris, thanks for the advice. I looked at the Summit website but I couldn't find the Accel DFI for fords. Am I looking in the wrong area? What other stuff would I need considering I'm working from a bare long block? It's on my 67 so it's a carb conversion
Posts: 32 | From: Fairfield | Registered: Jan 2003  |  :
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Dude you don't need that aftermarket BS [Roll Eyes] Just rape a nice low mileage 88-93 stang and take every nut, bolt, wire ect...
The ford EEC system will work just fine and then Byron can tune it for you and youl never regret it..

Or you can be like Chris W/ a 408 and run low 13's on all motor [Eek!] [Eek!]
Possibly scrape up some high 11's Booosted [Roll Eyes]

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Posts: 2857 | From: bay area | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
Chris M.
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hey mike arent you the guy who posted like 900 thousand times about how you couldn't get your car to idle????

Yet with no tuning what so ever I just fired my car up tonight, drove to tracey and back doing 95 mph the whole way... on slicks I might add.
BTW Mike, the only junkyard part on my car is the gas pedal from a 4 cyl early 80s mustang. The throattle cable is from Seremonte Ford and every other piece on my car is "aftermarket crap"

wookdawg, go to accel's website @ www.mrgasket.com and they have part #s for a 5.0/5.8 efi kit. Like I said before, that aftermarket "crap" costs more but in the end I'm glad I didn't just stick a stock ecu in my car.

[ January 12, 2003, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE ]

Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  :
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Humm I must say I posted a few times tying to figure out an idle problem that I got after 1 1/2 years of no problems [Roll Eyes] and handing your best friend his ass in his 10 sec street car.. nice to see you followed up on your facts.
I fired my car up for the first time ever and never had shit for problems till almost 2 years later..
Shit I ran 11's W/ not tune at all ona lil 302 and 7 1/2 lbs of boost

Was that you that ran 11's on a 408 and like 9 psi [Eek!] impressive Bro...

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Posts: 2857 | From: bay area | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
Chris M.
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wookdawg, my best advice is to IM Jeff S. He switched from that factory crap to aftermarket crap so he's used both.

[ January 13, 2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: st5150 ]

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[BS flag] Edited due to Street Racing drama... [BS flag]

[ January 13, 2003, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: 9COBRA8 ]

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Posts: 2857 | From: bay area | Registered: Jan 2002  |  :
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Last I recall, this is not the Street Racing Forum> [Confused]

We don't need drama brought into other forums! [BS flag]

Relax... [Roll Eyes]

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