This is topic Car starts and the shuts off. in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
Can it be a timing thing? On a cold start the car turns on like nothing. But when already been driven for about 10min or more and i get to where i was going and shut it off. When i get back in my car and turn it on it starts but shuts off right away. I notice i barely have to give it any gas and itll stay on after a while. Can it be timing or idle? Fuel pump and fuel filter are new. Battery and alternator new as well. Help?

Incase it matters, Mods to car are:
Shift kit
Bbk cold air
Bbk shorty headers
Bbk o/r h pipe
Flowmaster 2 chamber exhaust
3.73 gears

[ 2014-05-05, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: SacGrown89GT ]
 
Posted by SLOW95GTS (Member # 10365) on :
 
TFI module, Or distributor.
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SLOW95GTS:
TFI module, Or distributor.
Im thinkin something with distributor. Shits frustrating. At idle rpms are about 600. Is that normal?
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
Anyone?
 
Posted by SLOW95GTS (Member # 10365) on :
 
Auto tranny right?
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
Yes
 
Posted by Marks93 (Member # 11130) on :
 
Had basically the same issue with mine a while back. Runs great and after shutting it off, then trying to restart it, it either ran for a minute and died, or wouldn't start. It would finally start about 5 minutes later.
PIP sensor in the distributor was the key. I replaced the TFI but it kept doing that exact thing. I replaced the distributor and haven't had that problem since. Going on a few months now.
 
Posted by SLOW95GTS (Member # 10365) on :
 
600 rpm is normal when in drive and 8-900 rpm in park.
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SLOW95GTS:
600 rpm is normal when in drive and 8-900 rpm in park.
Its like 600-650 in park.
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marks93:
Had basically the same issue with mine a while back. Runs great and after shutting it off, then trying to restart it, it either ran for a minute and died, or wouldn't start. It would finally start about 5 minutes later.
PIP sensor in the distributor was the key. I replaced the TFI but it kept doing that exact thing. I replaced the distributor and haven't had that problem since. Going on a few months now.
Yeah im going to try n have it timed. And if thats not it the distributor is next option
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
Problem solved. It was my timing. Thanks guys. Mods can delete now please
 
Posted by Marks93 (Member # 11130) on :
 
Why delete it? This may help someone in the future! What was your timing set at to make it do that?
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marks93:
Why delete it? This may help someone in the future! What was your timing set at to make it do that?
Good thing they ddnt its still doing it. Timing i was told was set to 12. Dnt know what that means. But im thinkin its a dirty iac. Ill check tomorrow. I cleaned maf today and even swapped it out. Ddnt fix it. I checked to see if any lines or hoses were lose or cracked and found nothing. I notice that when i first start car it drops rpms and dies. Then when i try to restart it and it almost dies out then stays on. Kind of boggles a little and drops rpms ans then comes back to life. Im stumped. Damn car never did this and just started about a week ago

[ 2014-05-05, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: SacGrown89GT ]
 
Posted by Marks93 (Member # 11130) on :
 
Base timing for the 5.0L is 10 degrees so having it at 12 shouldn't have that much effect on it, but stranger things have happened.

The way you just described it sounds like a vacuum issue. Have you checked for any codes, even though you don't get a check engine light?

I'm still thinking PIP sensor in the dizzy. That does wierd things when going out.
 
Posted by American Iron Garage (Member # 6311) on :
 
Unplug the iac when at idle, any change? I would guess the problem is iac related and not timing. 600 is a bit low for an automatic in park.
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by American Iron Garage:
Unplug the iac when at idle, any change? I would guess the problem is iac related and not timing. 600 is a bit low for an automatic in park.
Shuts off as soon as i unplug
 
Posted by American Iron Garage (Member # 6311) on :
 
ok. to save me typing it all, here is a pretty good step by step guide. also if you just swapped to a aod you may need idle raised anyhow to allow for load in gear

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,1031.0.html

[ 2014-05-06, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: American Iron Garage ]
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by American Iron Garage:
ok. to save me typing it all, here is a pretty good step by step guide. also if you just swapped to a aod you may need idle raised anyhow to allow for load in gear

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,1031.0.html
Damnit gotta get a volt meter now. And the aod was installed new about a year ago along with shift kit and all. This problem just started when i did my 3g alternator. Ill try it tomorrow and see what i get. Like ive stated car only does this when first starting. Once I re-start it itll stay on but kind of want to shut off and regain idle. After that itll stay on fine and never shut off on me. But just the first start and shut off Is annoying..

[Confused] [patriot]

[ 2014-05-06, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: SacGrown89GT ]
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
Checked the tps. And it was reading .75 So i messed with it and put it to .99

Fixed problem so far. Hopefully it stays fixed [patriot]

[ 2014-05-07, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: SacGrown89GT ]
 
Posted by rollininmy50 (Member # 9067) on :
 
Was your car running better before the dude thought wrong night? .99 is good. I had an issue like that , TPS was at .85 But could not adjust anymore, I had extras and installed . I think it's around .96 seems to idle perfect.

[ 2014-05-07, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: rollininmy50 ]
 
Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :
 
First thing the TPS adjustment is not critical and can be anywhere from .55 to 1.12 Volts. If your TPS is in that range it is OK. Is your MIN IDLE adjustment correct?? You said the engine died when the IAC was disconnected. That is not correct and needs to be addressed. If the engine idles remove the connector from the IAC and see if the engine continues to run. If not the MIN idle adjustment has to be performed. Is the IAC clean and can you blow through it with it off the car. If air passes through the valve when not connected it is either defective or dirty. You need to check that and if not this way it will act as you posted. that is where i would start. And don't forget to change both the PIP and TFI with genuine Ford parts. I do this every 2 years on my TFI ignition cars. Also if it is not remote mounted i would recommend doing that. Good luck

[ 2014-05-07, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rollininmy50:
Was your car running better before the dude thought wrong night? .99 is good. I had an issue like that , TPS was at .85 But could not adjust anymore, I had extras and installed . I think it's around .96 seems to idle perfect.
No that night is was runnin funny still. I think this is way better. Going like 15mph i gun it and burn rubber still. Like i said i did it this morning and still no issues. If you needa know how to adjust it pm me.
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
First thing the TPS adjustment is not critical and can be anywhere from .55 to 1.12 Volts. If your TPS is in that range it is OK. Is your MIN IDLE adjustment correct?? You said the engine died when the IAC was disconnected. That is not correct and needs to be addressed. If the engine idles remove the connector from the IAC and see if the engine continues to run. If not the MIN idle adjustment has to be performed. Is the IAC clean and can you blow through it with it off the car. If air passes through the valve when not connected it is either defective or dirty. You need to check that and if not this way it will act as you posted. that is where i would start. And don't forget to change both the PIP and TFI with genuine Ford parts. I do this every 2 years on my TFI ignition cars. Also if it is not remote mounted i would recommend doing that. Good luck
All the forums ive read state that if an IAC is bad the car will stay on. If it is doing its job the car will shut off when you disconnect it. So....i followed the link American Iton Garage sent. I did do a cleaning on the IAC. I also cleaned out the throttle body. Aslo the mass air flow sensor. As well as clean the bbk air filter. Right now it idles great and hasnt shut off on me at all.

[ 2014-05-07, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: SacGrown89GT ]
 
Posted by American Iron Garage (Member # 6311) on :
 
glad to hear its better. sounds like your on the right track. Let me know if you need any other info.
 
Posted by American Iron Garage (Member # 6311) on :
 
also keep in mind that the tps was reading low because likely your base idle is too low. anytime you adjust the base idle you should recheck the TPS reading
 
Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by American Iron Garage:
also keep in mind that the tps was reading low because likely your base idle is too low. anytime you adjust the base idle you should recheck the TPS reading
[worship] thanks
 
Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :
 


[ 2014-05-08, 03:10 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]
 
Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :
 
If the IAC goes bad or is disconnected the engine should not stall. If MIN IDLE adjustment and TPS parameters and adjustments are correct. Running base idle is controlled by the IAC with MIN idle set app 100-150 RPM bellow IAC idle setting so it can make small adjustments to idle speed. And @ TPS voltage from .55-1.12 your TPS voltage was in compliance. People think the TPS has to be @ or near .99 Volts that is not true and trying to get it there is a waste of time. The ECM parameters are set to the voltages i posted by design. Thanks

According to ford the CEL light will illuminate at voltages bellow .55 volts (TPS LOW)and voltages above 1.21 (TPS HIGH) So adjusting the TPS in between those numbers is in speck. Some fords do not even have the ability to be adjusted and are fixed. Some like the TC are slotted for adjustments.. Upon vehicle start up, the computer will take the base idle voltage, and apply 2.71v to that number as the trigger point for WOT operations. So with this i always set to the lower number around .60 Volts to get the WOT parameters to come in sooner.So setting the TPS Voltage higher is basically defeating WOT parameters by delaying them further, i do not know where the .99 Voltage came from but it is interesting how it will delay WOT events by delaying them by throttle valve angles and by quite a bit. This in turn would be counter productive to have you TPS voltage set at the upper limit which delays that the information to the ECM to command WOT parameters. Hope this explains it. Thanks Tom

Note The TPS should be tested and set with a scope and not a meter. I know most people do not have a cylinder scope but a noisy TPS can really play havoc on the ECM.At Min a digital meter like a FLUKE should be used as it is good at indicating noise. Just a talking point

[ 2014-05-08, 04:06 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]
 




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