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Author
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Topic: rebuilding short block on a tight budget 5.0
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
 
 
Hey,
Building a 1994 5.0ho with little money and limited measureing tools (no bore gauge).
Heres the teardown report:
Crank end play is .0045,and rod side clearance is good- under .018 . bearings didn't show any copper.the crank's #1 main bearing jornal had a thin scoring on the surface, but I think i'm gonna run it anyway after I lap/polish it with some 600 grit emery,overall it looks good-still have to check it with the plastigauge. My oil pressure was always fluxuating when idleing- notice no gasket between the pump and block when removed.
The rings where badly shot -the top rings where
.028-.044 . Only #7 had the .028 top ring the rest around .034+ . I haven't measured the piston to bore clearance yet.
Is there a cheap/ghetto way of measuring the piston to bore? I was gonna try pluging a piston in a bore and use a feeler gauge but I dont think thats too accurate. Should I just not worry about it? How bout measuring the bores it self without a $110 bore gauge?-I planned on just using a caliper-is that okay?
Again I'm broke,just patching it up for daily driving duty and the ocassional up to 5200rpm trip for passing cars with road rage ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
How about rod bolts? Would I be fine reusing the oem bolts? I'm really having a hard time with deciding on that one- ARP has some for $60,but thats $60 bucks.
I'm using new premium clevite main and rod brgs from a stroker kit I had laying around, and was planing to buy a perfect circle cast ring set(pre-gapped).
Do you think I should find better rings?
I'm gonna ball hone the cylinders with a 180grit dingle berry tool ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Sorry for the long post.
Tools I dont have
bore gauge-$110
Micrometer set-$60
piston ring filer-$60
caliper--$30
Once I'm finished I'll let you know how it turned out and the final cost. any suggestions will help me greatly
Thank you
[ March 09, 2010, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: street_illegal_stang ]
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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blueoval55
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Member # 9787
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posted
use cast rings if ur gonna hone it with the bubble hone and since the cylinders arent perfect, moly rings like a nice straight smooth cylinder. dont recommend shoving a feeler guage in next to the piston skirt, i have seen people collapse the piston doing this. also, just get standard rings, no need to use file-to-fit rings on a stock-ish engine. our rule on rod bolts is, if the engine has been apart before and the bolts were re-used once, then replace them. if it was never taken apart before, shouldnt be a problem re-using them. if you buy ARP rod bolts, when you press out the old ones, and press in the new ones, you distort the rod, and the housing bore of it, and they should be re-conditioned.
Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2010
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
on a budget then brush hone it, run moly coated top ring for $68.99 from summit and use your bearings but have the crank polished and ask them for the low side if you cut it, they will know what you are talking about. the rod bolts, shit use them again dont mess with arps you should have the rod resized after that. Not much bore taper on these motors even with boost from what I have seen but you can use a dial bore gauge just take an average of 6 readings with an inner mic then put it in the dial bore.
[ March 10, 2010, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: turbo50 ]
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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blueoval55
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Member # 9787
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posted
"on a budget then brush hone it, run moly coated top ring for $68.99 from summit and use your bearings but have the crank polished and as them for the low side, they will know what you are talking about"
he already has cast rings which will work for sure in a used cylinder. why not spend the money that the moly rings cost on new bearings? he said its a daily driver, why have the crank on the low side for a cheap overhaul? on a race or a street/strip engine, then yes, you have the crank ground on the low side.
Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2010
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
Hey thank you both for the good advice.
I'll stick with the oem bolts.
I haven't yet bought the rings.-But I was considering cast rings cause I have a turbo kit laying around I was contemplating on using but I may sell it. I have many perfomance parts laying around actually, but for now I just want to get my car going. Top end is gonna be a set of o-ringed iron gt40 heads with arp head studs,a pending f303 cam(it's worn) and holley systemax intake... though I more than likely put it on the self and buy a used gt40 style plenum.
Other parts I have are 42 & 24 pound injectors w/ air meters to match.
Again I'm on a budget looking just to have a daily driver to get me to work and back-which is a 30 mile round trip.
Blueoval55-
I believe this is the first time this engine was disassembled. I bought it from some dude that got it from some kids near mexico that where I guess hauling ass and jumping the car off dirt ramps.
I know crazy huh? Oil pan has some dents-nothing serious.. anyway,
cast rings I am going with, what do you mean by collapsing the pistons using feelers?
I'm breaking down and gonna buy a $80 bore gauge at harbor freight tomorrow- f it.
I have new clevite H series bearings for the mains and rods. Should I just run the crank after I hand polish it with gray scotch brite and 600 grit emery? or go with turbo50's suggestion and get the crank polished at a machine shop. again I have bearings and rather not have the crank turned, well I dont mind spending a few bucks on oversized shells i guess if I have too. crank doesnt look bad. you can feel the groove with your finger a little,and imo its under .005 thou
Turbo50-
Thank man, good info... I mean I really havent seen many of these engines apart to inspect the wear patterns. When you say have the rods resized- do you mean for the next rebuild?
-I'll buy a dial bore gauge. f it- $80 harbor freight
Thanks fellas, I appreciate your help ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
[ March 10, 2010, 04:06 AM: Message edited by: street_illegal_stang ]
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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blueoval55
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Member # 9787
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posted
the cylinder and the piston are round, or at least pretty round, and the feeler gauge if you shove one thats too big in, it will push the piston skirt in and collapse it. if you can take the block and crankshaft to a machine shop, they usually will measure it for you for free. if you were near me i would do it for you. i would have the machine shop measure the crankshaft to make sure its round and within the tolerance, and have it polished if its good. some small little lines wont hurt anything. they cant polish a crankshaft "on the low side".... you have them GROUND on the low side, you can however, take material off while polishing, but it wont be round anymore. good luck with your build. if you have any question feel free to message me. i work in an machine shop, and i do this stuff all day long.
Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2010
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
Thanks for you time and support Blueovel55.
I'll let you know what happens
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by blueoval55:
"on a budget then brush hone it, run moly coated top ring for $68.99 from summit and use your bearings but have the crank polished and as them for the low side, they will know what you are talking about"
he already has cast rings which will work for sure in a used cylinder. why not spend the money that the moly rings cost on new bearings? he said its a daily driver, why have the crank on the low side for a cheap overhaul? on a race or a street/strip engine, then yes, you have the crank ground on the low side.
I must have missed that he already has the cast rings, my bad.
He said he has new bearings so no worries there.
Low side because everyone ends up using these cheap overhaul motors as their street strip motor.
Im not going to go into defense mode, looks like you work at a machine shop but I have done tons of these low budget builds and not had even one problem with over 40 motors so I was just giving the advise that I use time and time again.
--------------------
.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
Thank you both very much, Your advice is greatly appreciated Thanks for not going into defense mode turbo50- You seem to be the guy to talk to when it comes to budget engine rebuilds.
![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by street_illegal_stang:
Hey thank you both for the good advice.
I'll stick with the oem bolts.
I haven't yet bought the rings.-But I was considering cast rings cause I have a turbo kit laying around I was contemplating on using but I may sell it. I have many perfomance parts laying around actually, but for now I just want to get my car going. Top end is gonna be a set of o-ringed iron gt40 heads with arp head studs,a pending f303 cam(it's worn) and holley systemax intake... though I more than likely put it on the self and buy a used gt40 style plenum.
Other parts I have are 42 & 24 pound injectors w/ air meters to match.
Again I'm on a budget looking just to have a daily driver to get me to work and back-which is a 30 mile round trip.
Blueoval55-
I believe this is the first time this engine was disassembled. I bought it from some dude that got it from some kids near mexico that where I guess hauling ass and jumping the car off dirt ramps.
I know crazy huh? Oil pan has some dents-nothing serious.. anyway,
cast rings I am going with, what do you mean by collapsing the pistons using feelers?
I'm breaking down and gonna buy a $80 bore gauge at harbor freight tomorrow- f it.
I have new clevite H series bearings for the mains and rods. Should I just run the crank after I hand polish it with gray scotch brite and 600 grit emery? or go with turbo50's suggestion and get the crank polished at a machine shop. again I have bearings and rather not have the crank turned, well I dont mind spending a few bucks on oversized shells i guess if I have too. crank doesnt look bad. you can feel the groove with your finger a little,and imo its under .005 thou
Turbo50-
Thank man, good info... I mean I really havent seen many of these engines apart to inspect the wear patterns. When you say have the rods resized- do you mean for the next rebuild?
-I'll buy a dial bore gauge. f it- $80 harbor freight
Thanks fellas, I appreciate your help
When I say have the rods resized I mean that if you change rod bolts to moly rod bolts of any sort you usually distort the rod end and have to have it resized.
Just leave the stock rod bolts in it I have gone 10.20s with them.
--------------------
.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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blueoval55
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Member # 9787
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posted
funny you said "Low side because everyone ends up using these cheap overhaul motors as their street strip motor." cuz he was mentioning using a turbo set up on it after he said he was just trying to get his car back together.... haha i still like seeing my oil pressure gauge up a little higher though. but ya really only need 7 psi for every 1,000 rpm. i dont like seeing mine idling below like 30! takes a shit load of power to turn an oil pump though. ya ever try to prime an engine by hand with a speed handle? that really makes ya realize how hard it is to turn. even smoked a few drills priming engines
Posts: 95 | Registered: Feb 2010
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by blueoval55:
even smoked a few drills priming engines
Then someone had a cheap azz drill or it was assembled wrong. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by blueoval55:
funny you said "Low side because everyone ends up using these cheap overhaul motors as their street strip motor." cuz he was mentioning using a turbo set up on it after he said he was just trying to get his car back together.... haha i still like seeing my oil pressure gauge up a little higher though. but ya really only need 7 psi for every 1,000 rpm. i dont like seeing mine idling below like 30! takes a shit load of power to turn an oil pump though. ya ever try to prime an engine by hand with a speed handle? that really makes ya realize how hard it is to turn. even smoked a few drills priming engines
The turbo kit is on the self and up in the air for now... I Rather not get to radical with the bolt ons right away. Keeping it simple for now for the break in period and just a ride to work.
originally I was doing the rebuild to handle a small 60mm turbo... but I just got a job so had a slight change in plans. The turbo was also the reason I choose cast rings gapped towards the higher end of factory specs.
turbo50- 10.20 is pretty impressive for a factory rotating assembly ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) thats awesome!
Thanks everyone
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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mikeceli
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Member # 8389
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posted
You can get a rough measurement of bore taper by inserting a used compression RING in the bore at several positions (top below ridge, middle and bottom of travel. Measure the end gap and record.
Then, use the math formular to convert end gap variation, into diameter variation. I'm FUZZY ON THE FORMULAR.
mATH WIZ please step in. Converting change in circumfrence int0 change in diameter.
[ March 12, 2010, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: mikeceli ]
Posts: 33 | From: N. California, Sonoma County | Registered: May 2008
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
Here ya go...
Calculator
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
Thanks guys, you rock! Actually I just ordered a bore gauge, and today I'm hunting down a micrometer.
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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