This is topic 1998 Cobra Engine in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok, I took out the Cobra Engine out of my car, and mounted it on a stand and flipped it over. I took off the oil pan and now I dont know what to look for haha.

FYI: This engine was in my 97GT, I did a post a while back on it, couldnt find it, so I have to start a new thread. A while back, I drove the car as a commuter from work and home for about 6 months. When I got off work one morning, I fired her up, it was fine, drove down the driveway out of the lot, and BAM!...the engine started rocking back and forth side to side, and it was almost going to stall but still had a little life in it, it idled very roughly, actually had just enough power for me to reverse it while pumping the throttle, back in to a parking spot, where it sat from almost 4 months. I just had it towed home last week and now im working on it slowly. When it was barely running, I heard a knocking sound coming from inside the engine somehwere.

So now I need some assistance from you professionals out there, to give me some advice and walk me through on what to look for.

Also I drained the oil and there was barely any in the pan (oops) and it was dark as chocolate (like the chocolate river in Willy Wonka), and it was new when I poured the oil in when I did the swap, and I put about only about3,500 miles. Ok, so what do i do now? [Frown] [Confused]
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
What weight of oil were you using?
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
10-30
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
10w30 is too much for that setup. 5w20 or 30 is what they need. The higher viscosity oil can't flow as easily through the heads, so it sits longer in them...leaking down valve guides...burning in cylinders. Also, it will be sucked into the intake through the PCV system, as it closer to the valve being in the head. I'm willing to bet your IMRC's are coated in burnt oil, your lower intake is full of oil, and the back of the throttle body has oil on it as well. This is where all the oil went.
As for what to look for...check the #6,7, and 8 rods. One of them has possibly has a spun rod bearing.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Do i take off the end caps to check the bearing or is there another way to determine that? What else would I have to check/replace before I can place the engine back in and hopefully it will fire up and be my daily driver again...
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
#7 rod is the failure I have seen more commonly.

Try moving the rods side to side on the journal until you find some that wont move a tiny bit and that is probably your knock.

Look for discolored metal.

Once, if, you find either of those pull the cap off.
 
Posted by asskickn88 (Member # 4957) on :
 
If you spun a bearing then your not going to just throw a new one in and keep on driving. The crank will be scored up bad and the rod too will have damage. It sounds like something else went wrong though, I've heard plenty of engines run with a rod knock and not run bad.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok cool, thanks. I'll take a look and and see what I find. So if the crank is scored can I get it worked or do i have to replace that thing? Or is that up to a shop depending on the damage? Would i be better off getting new rods, pistons, crank, etc? I might just take that block from you john haha
 
Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Ok cool, thanks. I'll take a look and and see what I find. So if the crank is scored can I get it worked or do i have to replace that thing? Or is that up to a shop depending on the damage? Would i be better off getting new rods, pistons, crank, etc? I might just take that block from you john haha
If it is the type of damage that is described above then you will need to have the whole motor disassembled, checked, and have any bad parts replaced... so bascially an entire rebuild.

If you are looking to get outa this one cheap then buy a used, good running motor. Otherwise have your motor rebuilt.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Whats the price range for a rebuild on these kinds of engines? Im not looking to make a race car...
 
Posted by slow96cobra (Member # 6001) on :
 
buy JOHNB'S fully forged block for 2k
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Hey JohnB, that forged block is blower ready?
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
Sure is.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok so JohnB is gonna hook me up with that block. Now whats a good cam for these engines? Something that makes good power, smog legal and not ridiculously priced where I have to cut off my leg...Also im looking for a good exhaust header, I want to go with bassani since im running a full bassani exhaust, but whats this news about people failing smog visuals...thnx guys...i'll get pix up of this project once it gets cleaned up...
 
Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
stock cams are fine until you are looking at over 500hp.

shorty headers aren't worth the $$$ over the stock manifolds, better to spend that money on fuel system parts if you want to boost it. Shorty's are the only headers available that have a CARB # to pass visual smog, and that requires the stock 4 cat midpipe too.

longtubes are where the power is, but they would never pass an actual visual smog check. Impossible to see the headers from the top, but if they look under the car looking for the factory cats and see the collectors on the long tubes and only 2 cats...that's it, failed.
 
Posted by asskickn88 (Member # 4957) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Now whats a good cam for these engines? Something that makes good power, smog legal and not ridiculously priced where I have to cut off my leg.
Your not going to find a good set of cams that aren't expensive. You might find a set used from somewhere but expect to pay in the $700+ range, at least that's what I found when looking for a set. You gotta think, its not just one cam like an OHV motor so your buying 4 cams that cost well over $1K new.
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
Ford GT cams are brand new, all day long, for around $450 a set.
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Ford GT cams are brand new, all day long, for around $450 a set.
I've got them in my car, woot!
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Would 03/04 Cobra valves and springs fit on a 96-98 Cobra Cyclinder head? I found a new set on MMR and i want to have the heads rebuilt before i put them on the new block...wheres a good place to port these heads anyway? and should the lower intake be ported too.
 
Posted by fasthatch (Member # 7277) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Would 03/04 Cobra valves and springs fit on a 96-98 Cobra Cylinder head? I found a new set on MMR and i want to have the heads rebuilt before i put them on the new block...wheres a good place to port these heads anyway? and should the lower intake be ported too.
if these heads were on the engine that ran out of oil you better have the heads gone through
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok, so the heads are getting sent out next week.

So im working on the the block, and I put on brand new UPR Motor mounts, and I tightend the bolts and the mount still moves? Do i have to get shorter bolts? its like the bolt bottoms out and doesnt completely tighten the mounts. I resued the bolts off the factory mount that was on the aluminum block...this one is JohnB's new one that i bought. Any Advice?
 
Posted by fasthatch (Member # 7277) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Ok, so the heads are getting sent out next week.

So im working on the the block, and I put on brand new UPR Motor mounts, and I tightend the bolts and the mount still moves? Do i have to get shorter bolts? its like the bolt bottoms out and doesnt completely tighten the mounts. I resued the bolts off the factory mount that was on the aluminum block...this one is JohnB's new one that i bought. Any Advice?
add washer to the bolts an use locking ones

[ December 22, 2009, 05:05 AM: Message edited by: fasthatch ]
 
Posted by BOSNA (Member # 246) on :
 
Need more info on JOHNB'S #
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by fasthatch:
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Ok, so the heads are getting sent out next week.

So im working on the the block, and I put on brand new UPR Motor mounts, and I tightend the bolts and the mount still moves? Do i have to get shorter bolts? its like the bolt bottoms out and doesnt completely tighten the mounts. I resued the bolts off the factory mount that was on the aluminum block...this one is JohnB's new one that i bought. Any Advice?
add washer to the bolts an use locking ones
+1. As stated, use flat washers and a lock washer. Don't forget the coolant plugs either. [Smile]

Bosna, feel free to shoot me a PM if you've got a question. [Smile]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
thats what i was gonna do but i had to make sure it was ok...so thanks for the response guys...and I got the coolant plugs on and ready to go...haha thanks john
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok I removed the heads and I found a broken cam chain on the right side cylinder head...it was wrapped around the timing chain sprocket, and the tension spring thats behind the cam sprocket was shot. I take it that this may have been one of the issues huh? I put a pic below. Also, there is a pic of the valves and cyclinders...is that all burnt because all the oil? Or no tune?

-
-
-
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
will these fit? It say it does but with an 01 intake..but im looking at kenne bell...any ideas?

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/mach1mag2.htm

[ December 25, 2009, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: autumnstang97 ]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
I found these as well, which fits the budget more...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pair-4-6-DOHC-32-Valve-Triton-Ford-Cylinder-Heads_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2303bd2914QQitemZ150386583828QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

[ December 25, 2009, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: autumnstang97 ]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Bueller..........

Bueller..........
 
Posted by Nastysvt (Member # 6431) on :
 
I have a set of 03 mach 1 heads I might be selling..
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
I've got a set of 04 cobra heads, etc for sale.

[ December 27, 2009, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: FoX GT ]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
If i go with the 03/04 Cobra heads, will hooking it up be smooth or will i have to modify anything else...
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
Are you going to do a roots style blower? If so you need a ton more crap.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
I was going to go with kenne Bell 2.1L.

What other things are we talking about?

Should I look into a ProCharger? Im looking to get it running again...i miss my car...Im stangless! my R1 is no fun when its freezing...haha

How hard will 03/04 Cobra heads be putting on, and will the factory 96-98 Cobra intake system bolt up right? It thought the intake ports differ on 03/04 than 96-98...how about the engine harness, will that still work? I want to keep the engine harness the way it it...96-98 Cobra...
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
I was going to go with kenne Bell 2.1L.

What other things are we talking about?

Should I look into a ProCharger? Im looking to get it running again...i miss my car...Im stangless! my R1 is no fun when its freezing...haha

How hard will 03/04 Cobra heads be putting on, and will the factory 96-98 Cobra intake system bolt up right? It thought the intake ports differ on 03/04 than 96-98...how about the engine harness, will that still work? I want to keep the engine harness the way it it...96-98 Cobra...
You will need a different intake for the C heads. If you want a 2.1L you would need to get a C head lower intake (mach 1...which i also have for sale, haha or 99-01 cobra). I am unsure about the wiring harness, I would think you might need to lengthen some wires but maybe JohnB can chime in.
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
The wiring harness will be plug-n-play, nothing cosmic about it. You will have to make your own coil brackets, use your 98 model cam covers, and if you're wanting to run a roots-style blower, you'll need a 03-04 Cobra lower intake and water crossover. Also, you'll need to move the alternator to the lower driver's side as well as use the small alternator...the one you've got won't work. A balancer swap, different timing cover, etc...it's basically a 03-04 conversion...

If you want to run a vortech/procharger style...you'll only need a 99-01 Cobra or 03-04 Mach1 intake to run the C heads...that's it. Personally, this is what I would do. You can pick up a Procharger kit for cheap, makes great power, and alot of your stock stuff won't need to be changed around.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Now thats a relief to here about the wiring harness, one less thing to worry about. Ok so I'll go with the C-heads, 99-01 Cobra intake manifold, and a ProCharger setup. i'd go the other way if time, space and money were not issues of course, as most of would probably do that anyway. I appreciate all the response, replies, tech info, knowledge, etc I gain from you guys, Thanks a bunch.
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Now thats a relief to here about the wiring harness, one less thing to worry about. Ok so I'll go with the C-heads, 99-01 Cobra intake manifold, and a ProCharger setup. i'd go the other way if time, space and money were not issues of course, as most of would probably do that anyway. I appreciate all the response, replies, tech info, knowledge, etc I gain from you guys, Thanks a bunch.
the 03-04 mach 1 manifold is the best one if you can grab one. The lower intake flows the best out of all the C head intakes.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok, so the set up will be the 04 Cobra block, 03/04 Cobra heads, 03/04 Mach1 intake, and either a Vortech or Procharger SC. Im looking more over to Vortech. So will 4:10 gears go good or will that be too much. Im going with 31 spline axles, FRPP Posi-traction, etc.
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
3.55's are PLENTY for that combo. With 4.10's, your 1-2-3 is gonna be useless. [Wink]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Thank you sir, I have a new set of FRPP 4:10s, i bought from Summit Racing when i was in Nevada. Anyone have a new set of 3:55 for trade...
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Hey the new motor has dish pistons, will it run funny if i dont add a blower right away?
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
So, will the 98 valve covers fit over the C heads?

Also I was wondering about the coil on plug set up that the 99-04 GT/Cobra's have...How hard will it be to convert over to that set up. It would be kind of nice and clean to eliminate the coil packs...
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
So, will the 98 valve covers fit over the C heads?

Also I was wondering about the coil on plug set up that the 99-04 GT/Cobra's have...How hard will it be to convert over to that set up. It would be kind of nice and clean to eliminate the coil packs...
Yes they will...

Here's a link for the COP conversion.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showpost.php?p=675636&postcount=88
 
Posted by GTO (Member # 6717) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Thank you sir, I have a new set of FRPP 4:10s, i bought from Summit Racing when i was in Nevada. Anyone have a new set of 3:55 for trade...
I have a set of 3.55 gears from my 06 gt. They have about 12k on them. No issues.. I swapped 'em out for 4.10's. I could use those 4.10's that you have for another car.

[ January 10, 2010, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: GTO ]
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
Hey the new motor has dish pistons, will it run funny if i dont add a blower right away?
Nope, it'll be fine.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Thanks guys. So JohnB, how do I do those timing chains? The crank is still over to the 9 o'clock position so the valves wont touch. I got the Cobra C heads, now I need to set the chain up. No rush since I havent put the heads on yet.
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
Put the heads on and call or PM me. I will be tough to get ahold of the next 7-10 days, as I'll be in transit to KS, but I will check VM/PM's.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Ok so I have the 04 CObra block and heads, 98 cam covers and front engine cover, lower 01 Cobra intake. Can I run the 99-01 Cobra Kenne Bell 2.1L blower?
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Bueller...
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
you should call kenne bell and ask them. I can't imagine it being much different. You could also buy my cobra lower intake and intercooler to make it an intercooled kit. You would still need some fittings/lines/heat exhchanger, etc. [Smile]
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
What are the differnece in timing chain covers from 96-98 and 99-01? i know the 03/04 are different...
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Are the timing chains the same on all the 4v Cobras'?
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
The difference in the timing covers between the 97-98's and 99-01's is the location and setup of the belt tensioner. All else is basically the same. The 03-04 Cobras are COMPLETELY different.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
How about a Paxton Novi 2000 supercharger for this set up?
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by autumnstang97:
How about a Paxton Novi 2000 supercharger for this set up?
i was never really a fan of the novi 2000 for a modular. I only know one person who has ran it. However, the new Vortech V3 SCi supercharger would be pretty awesome. Thats what Drew runs on his wife's car.
 
Posted by autumnstang97 (Member # 6111) on :
 
Yeah the Vortech looks nice...I saw the paxton novi which was about 3500 new which wasnt bad. Im a fan of the roots style though...i like the look of it on top...keeps the front clean...so many options, if $$$ wasnt an issue... [dance]
 




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