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Author
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Topic: Noisy Ford Racing gears! Need help
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
 
 
Hi guys,
OK, so I just got my ford racing 4.10 gears installed, by a pro shop. with new bearings, new trac lok (ford racing), and new everything else back there. I also did control arms at the same time. and the noise is horrible, for the most part only when I turn right???? The tech said the gears were unlike others he had seen, and the the pinion had to be machined for the bearing to fit right, if that helps.
It is tollerable until i turn right, then it just explodes, even the slightest imput to the right it just sounds like something is grinding back there. I can hear it in drive, and with the radio on, and over the exhaust, and if i am in neutral forget about it. I wanted to drive off a cliff on the way home.
So any advice on what it may be? Being that it is worse when I turn. No noise before the install.
Thank you so much in advance.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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93ReefBlue5.0
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Member # 5780
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I'd take it back to the shop you had install the gears and tell them to fix it. You shouldn't have to machine the pinion gear.. thats b.s.
Posts: 1535 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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I agree somebody f'ed up. Usualy when you are turning and pick up noise it is from a bearing. They screwed up a carier or axle bearing.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
I could have misunderstood what was done to the pinion and bearing, all I know is that they did not work perfectly and something was done. So you think because it only makes noise while turning right it may be a bearing?
He le tme know the wear pattern was perfect, so I didnt think it was the gear set acting up. Thanks for the ideas Keep em coming.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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asskickn88
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Member # 4957
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
Carrier bearing(s) are not shimmed correctly. No pinion should EVER need to be machined, so that's another problem.
Your gears will be junk very shortly as well...
+1 If he had to alter the gears to make them work then something was wrong, he should have stopped right there and contacted you. If he modified anything to make them fit then they should be held responsible in making it right. I have 4.10 Ford Racing gears in my 96 and they make quite a bit of noise too but its just a whine while driving forward. If they are making a grinding noise it can't be a good thing, take it back now and have them check everything out again. If you drive it too much they will shift the blame off on you for any damage it causes.
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Three 540 Bimmers and a 5.0 Explorer.... got a Ford back in the stable!
It's time for the country to do what Obama's own father did.
Abandon him.
Posts: 6069 | From: Rocklin, Ca | Registered: Oct 2004
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stangin'
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Member # 514
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posted
if before the install your car wasn't making this noise and now after the gears it is, you need to let the shop handle the problem and fix it. take it back asap before you do further damage b/c it doesn' sound normal.
Posts: 2993 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Oct 2001
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
He did contact me when he hit the issue with the pinion. Basicly the bearing would not fit well on the ford racing pinion, so they had to "clean them up" which i think meant machining it slightly.
Anyhow, I spoke with him today and he was really helpful, He thinks it was a wheel bearing, so I replaced both of them today, and I just need fluid to go test it out. I will update when I do. He said if it is still bad after that he will check it out. I am not driving it as of now until i figure it all out, I dont want to ruin my $250 gears.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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badazlx
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Member # 4899
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match them up? its called a press?
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03 mach bolt ons/125 shot
Posts: 911 | From: roseville | Registered: Sep 2004
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
I was the one to install the gears. The carrier bearings,pinion bearing etc... are installed and shimmed correctly.
The gears are a "FORD RACING" set of 4:10's unlike ANY that I have ever seen. I called Steve immediately and let them know I had found some issues with the gears that may pose a problem. The gears almost looked like they were chrome plated. I have installed 100's of sets of Ford Racing Gears and have NEVER seen these before. I called Mike at RES and a few others I deal with in the field to get there opinions and all of them informed me that Ford is NO LONGER making the gears and that they are being manufactured by a company in Ohio then sold to Motive, then sold to Ford and boxed as "FORD RACING" gears. And that the quality is not that of the Ford Gears.
The cut/machine work on the gears are nowhere near the quality of what Ford and/or Ford Racing gears have, or should I say USED to have. The plating was also making the pinion bearing hard to install so I had to "clean off" if you will, the coating to get the bearing onto the pinion, no metal or material was removed from the pinion. The ring gear had grooves from shitty machine work so those were cleaned up as well. I did tell Steve don't treat these as a Ford Racing gear set that you will most likely hear some gear whine (I was also warned about this by a few other shops I know that have installed these). I test drove the car and there was "some noise" but nothing unbearable, sounded like a strange or a motive gear would.
Steve did call me today and told me about an unbearable noise when he turns right and goes away when hes going straight. The only bearings that were not replaced were the axles bearings, which he is going to change."IF" that doesn't fix the issue he is going to bring it back and I WILL figure out the problem!
ANY and ALL work that I do is 100% Guaranteed for Lifetime of the vehicle!
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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Yaterstang
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Member # 7659
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posted
Isnt JohnB the best place to get gears done anyways?
Posts: 2968 | From: Natomas | Registered: May 2007
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yaterstang:
Isnt JohnB the best place to get gears done anyways?
Best, naw ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) But yes he does great work.
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
I really appriciate that Matt is standing by his work, I trust that he did a good job, I just want to figure out what I can do to quite down the gears while turning. I replaced both wheel bearings today, no luck, still the same, so I am going to let Matt take a look at it as soon as he can.
I originally called Matt to find out what i could do regaring the gears. I thought about calling the manufaturer. I paid top dollar to get the frpp gears because I wanted quiet gears, then to find out they are motive gears? Whats up with that? I could have got those for $100 less on ebay.
Anyhow, I trust that Matt will figure it all out. I didnt start this thread to make it look like he didnt do a good job, just to get some ideas about where to go from here.
Thanks to Haulinass Motorsports helping me out.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
Haulin'/Matt will take care of you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And yes, I'm the best. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) j/k
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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hidnn.o.s.
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Member # 1219
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
j/k
No you're not
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R.I.P. Willie G. You are missed on this forum
Posts: 15950 | Registered: Apr 2002
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badazlx
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Member # 4899
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so whats the verdict? what was wrong?
[ February 20, 2008, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: badazlx ]
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03 mach bolt ons/125 shot
Posts: 911 | From: roseville | Registered: Sep 2004
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
Took it into Matt yesterday, he's on the job. Took him for a drive so he could hear it. He thinks it may not be related to the gears at all, so he is going to try and figure it out.
I am hoping it is not a problem with the new differential or something like that. It is harder to figure out because i changed so many parts at once I guess. Anyhow, Matt is going to let me know what he finds out some time today hopefully, I will update you all.
Steve
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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sn4bwc
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Member # 8035
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posted
Well, Matt took it all apart and replaced an additional bearing, took away some of the noise. I have been driving it around for a couple days and it is STILL making that groaning sound when I turn right, but not quite as bad.
That being said, i am confident Matt at Haulin Ass Motorsports did everything humanly possible, and at this point it must have something to do with the parts, Either the diff, the gears, or increased road noise from the control arms. Overall I am bummed that it is so noisy, but happy with the performance, and more than satisfied with Matt's customer service.
Next step, call the place where I got the gears and ask them why I paid $80 more for a gear made by motive.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Nov 2007
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asskickn88
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Member # 4957
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HaulinAss Motorsports:
I WILL figure out the problem!
ANY and ALL work that I do is 100% Guaranteed for Lifetime of the vehicle!
![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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Three 540 Bimmers and a 5.0 Explorer.... got a Ford back in the stable!
It's time for the country to do what Obama's own father did.
Abandon him.
Posts: 6069 | From: Rocklin, Ca | Registered: Oct 2004
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Ken Collins
New Member
Member # 8236
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posted
If it's making noise in a turn, you have a problem with the traction-lok clutch pack. Their too tight or not enough friction modifer. More noise in a turn is not a ring and pinion or axle bearing concern because these things are turning all the time, not just making a turn. As someone else said, no machining needs to be done on a pinion and if this happened, the gear is a throwaway. Another thing you might check, is it possible there's a tire/wheel rubbing an inner fender or quad shock in a turn? When it comes to car problems, pretty much anything is possible....Ken.
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BadShoe Productions, auto repair dvd's specializing in Ford drivetrains
Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2008
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turbo50
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Member # 6700
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Collins:
If it's making noise in a turn, you have a problem with the traction-lok clutch pack. Their too tight or not enough friction modifer. More noise in a turn is not a ring and pinion or axle bearing concern because these things are turning all the time, not just making a turn. As someone else said, no machining needs to be done on a pinion and if this happened, the gear is a throwaway. Another thing you might check, is it possible there's a tire/wheel rubbing an inner fender or quad shock in a turn? When it comes to car problems, pretty much anything is possible....Ken.
Ken, don't know how you found your way over here, but I have several of your CDs and I must say that they are top notch!!!
Thanks!
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.........when was the last time YOU built something with YOUR own hands?
I offer quality sidework at reasonable prices. PM ME
Posts: 7606 | From: Discovery Bay, California | Registered: Apr 2006
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Collins:
If it's making noise in a turn, you have a problem with the traction-lok clutch pack. Their too tight or not enough friction modifer. More noise in a turn is not a ring and pinion or axle bearing concern because these things are turning all the time, not just making a turn. As someone else said, no machining needs to be done on a pinion and if this happened, the gear is a throwaway. Another thing you might check, is it possible there's a tire/wheel rubbing an inner fender or quad shock in a turn? When it comes to car problems, pretty much anything is possible....Ken.
I beg to differ with you on the axle bearing noise while turning. It may not have been the case with his car but axle bearings that are bad do change niose while turning from right to left. The load on the bearing changes with weight shift when turning. That is a Fact
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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90lxfoxbody
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Member # 6947
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posted
I build alot of rear ends for guys,and i will say if it only makes noise when turning its in the carrier or a axle bearing.Also a rear end shouldnt make any noise when setup right.SHouldnt whine or growl or grind period.
Bottom line is they should fix it,now if they were used gears that u supplied,well then your on your own on that.But if its all new parts it shouldnt be a problem for them to do it right.
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Owner Of All Out Performance
Ya I own that Cobra
Old setup whipple and jug 9.37 155
New twins hoping for 8.50s at 165
Posts: 588 | From: fresno ca | Registered: Jul 2006
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HaulinAss Motorsports
Its a STREETRaceCar!
Member # 541
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 90lxfoxbody:
I build alot of rear ends for guys,and i will say if it only makes noise when turning its in the carrier or a axle bearing.Also a rear end shouldnt make any noise when setup right.SHouldnt whine or growl or grind period.
Bottom line is they should fix it,now if they were used gears that u supplied,well then your on your own on that.But if its all new parts it shouldnt be a problem for them to do it right.
Nate the carrier and axle bearings are all new. Gears, Track Loc and EVERY bearing and race has been replaced, everything was torn down and REinspected and everything looks good and everything is setup right. The noise is not that of a bearing or gear noise. No grinds or howls of any kind. All the parts looked good except the gears which were questionable at first but suprisngly have very minimal noise which is common with aftermarket gears. This is more of an external noise on RIGHT TURNS only, not when going straight and not when going left.
Posts: 22494 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2001
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5.0XR4
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Member # 8229
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posted
This may sound stupid, but assuming there's no rubbing anywhere, and all the suspension bushings and axle mounts/connectors are good (unlikely???), then I'd look at shock bind/failure, or problems with the brake or parking cable.
Shock bind and worn bushings can make all sorts of noises, and can actually be pretty tough to isolate. And, I'd check both sides... a worn component on the left might be putting all the stress on the right side, and what you're hearing could be a good component actually being stressed to the point of starting to fail.
Heck, just swapping to something better can be enough new stress on fatigued components. Tough to investigate when you've changed almost everything in the axle. But, if the assembly & installation has been done correctly, as it seems obvious it has been, then you have to look at what the installation could have effected outside of itself.
Assuming rear discs, if the pads are cocked, or mounting bracket worn or skewed, or a hang-up in the cable, then turning right and torquing/loading the tire, suspension, and axle while turning can exaggerate misalignment & create a grinding noise.
Hey, you guys sound like you're damn good at what you're doing, and you've covered everything else, so what the heck...
Posts: 26 | From: Campbell | Registered: Feb 2008
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