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Author
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Topic: How much rwhp with this combo
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gercolla1
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Member # 3068
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posted
 
 
How much rwhp will this HCI combo make on a 91 fox
331 non ac
AFR 185 w/1.6 rr
Edelbrock rpm2 intake w/70mm tb/egr
crane powermax 2030
timing at 17'
underdrive pullys
76mm C&L w/cold air and 30lbs injectors
bbk longtube headers
bbk h-pipe w/no cats
flowmaster force 2 with tail pipes
aluminum flywheel kevlar cluth disc
t56 trans w/aluminum driveshaft
3.73's ![[Whoo Whooooo!]](graemlins/woowoo.gif)
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Sf Bay Area
Posts: 2171 | From: Sampan San Francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
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StreakMatt
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Member # 6257
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posted
Depends on Compression Ratio also. Big difference between 8.5:1 and 11:1
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Custom Blue '88 GT: Garage Built= MM&FF January 2012 Cover and Feature. Tuned by Bob Kurgan
Black '03 Cobra: 2.9 Whipple Tuned by Bob Kurgan
Posts: 1198 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Nov 2005
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
I think with that cam "it's the same as the E cam rite" You won't see over 360 rwhp. Also what kind of dyno are We talkin about? When You get it finished take it to the strip and get some real #'s . What are You hoping for dyno & 1/4 mile, or is it a street only car?
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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gercolla1
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Member # 3068
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posted
The heads are AFR185"s w/58cc and im not sure but i think the Ecam eqiv for powermax is the 2040. this car will mostly be a weekend car.
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Sf Bay Area
Posts: 2171 | From: Sampan San Francisco | Registered: Jul 2003
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by gercolla1:
The heads are AFR185"s w/58cc and im not sure but i think the Ecam eqiv for powermax is the 2040. this car will mostly be a weekend car.
Good so it is bigger than the E? Sound's like it will be a great weekend ride to Me. How close is it to completion? Keep us informed as it's alway's good to keep up on different combo's. Do Yourself a favor and put some Mickey thompson drag radial's on it especially since it's just a weekend car ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif) .
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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LQ9SN95
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Member # 7080
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
I think with that cam "it's the same as the E cam rite" You won't see over 360 rwhp.
![[BS flag]](graemlins/bs_flag.gif)
stock 5.0
about 190rwhp
"331 non ac
AFR 185 w/1.6 rr
Edelbrock rpm2 intake w/70mm tb/egr
crane powermax 2030
timing at 17'
underdrive pullys
76mm C&L w/cold air and 30lbs injectors
bbk longtube headers
bbk h-pipe w/no cats"
ok this is just a estimate to my knowledge......
190rwhp stock+ afr heads ~ 250rwhp
+cam ~ 270rwhp
+rpm2 intake ~ 300rwhp
+pullies ~ 310rwhp
+maf & exhaust ~ 330rwhp
+stroker = easy 400-410 maybe 420rwhp
JMO ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ July 21, 2007, 06:50 AM: Message edited by: F8LSN8K ]
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http://www.fastgms-teamfast.com
http://www.facebook.com/aop.fresno?ref=ts&fref=ts
Lq9 swap
102 fast intake
Trick flow heads
T rex cam
Posts: 8031 | From: Fresno, Ca | Registered: Sep 2006
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92stangLX
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Member # 3252
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
I think with that cam "it's the same as the E cam rite" You won't see over 360 rwhp.
stock 5.0
about 190rwhp
"331 non ac
AFR 185 w/1.6 rr
Edelbrock rpm2 intake w/70mm tb/egr
crane powermax 2030
timing at 17'
underdrive pullys
76mm C&L w/cold air and 30lbs injectors
bbk longtube headers
bbk h-pipe w/no cats"
ok this is just a estimate to my knowledge......
190rwhp stock+ afr heads ~ 250rwhp
+cam ~ 270rwhp
+rpm2 intake ~ 300rwhp
+pullies ~ 310rwhp
+maf & exhaust ~ 330rwhp
+stroker = easy 400-410 maybe 420rwhp
JMO
Highly doubtful you will see anywhere near 420rwhp with this combo unless the compression is pretty high.
I would guestimate 350-375rwhp w/ 9:1-10:1 compression.
Posts: 5302 | From: San Francisco | Registered: Sep 2003
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Pure Stang
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Member # 7251
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posted
i agree with the 350-375rwhp... unless its a crazy high rev engine and comp
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HEART BREAKER
R.I.P Willie Guzman (5ltrsvt) you will be missed brother.
04/24/87 - 11/23/2012
90 lx 347 RIP
86 gt
89 lx- next project
Posts: 6497 | From: San Jose | Registered: Nov 2006
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
I think with that cam "it's the same as the E cam rite" You won't see over 360 rwhp.
stock 5.0
about 190rwhp
"331 non ac
AFR 185 w/1.6 rr
Edelbrock rpm2 intake w/70mm tb/egr
crane powermax 2030
timing at 17'
underdrive pullys
76mm C&L w/cold air and 30lbs injectors
bbk longtube headers
bbk h-pipe w/no cats"
ok this is just a estimate to my knowledge......
190rwhp stock+ afr heads ~ 250rwhp
+cam ~ 270rwhp
+rpm2 intake ~ 300rwhp
+pullies ~ 310rwhp
+maf & exhaust ~ 330rwhp
+stroker = easy 400-410 maybe 420rwhp
JMO
With a 15% drivetrain loss You are talking about the engine producing 450 flywheel hp wich is 1.3X hp per square inch "I am going with Your low figure by the way" which is'nt going to happen with an E cam that will be done around 5800 rpm & 91 octane . Sure with some victor junior head's and a custom with some higher octane & high compression He could put out some of the #'s You are talking about. Dyno #'s are pipe dream's for the most part. I have heard 500-600 rwhp blah blah blah and see a low 12 or high 11 @ 115-118 and know that dyno #'s are very inconsistant at best & especially when You are comparing one dyno to another. On a side note why not go in expecting less then be stoked when they are high, rather than expect great #'s and be dissapointed when they are low ![[Confused]](confused.gif) . Hope gercolla 1 get's what He want's out of the combo! Let us know how Your tuning session goes man.
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
No N/A 331 around here makes 400RWHP on an EFI motor with pump gas.
The highest HP pump gas EFI setups around are 2 347's on this site making 442/466RWHP. Most good N/A 347's make around 380RWHP.....most good N/A 331's 20+hp less than that. & That's not with a smogable camshaft or catted exhaust.
You'll be lucky to make over 1RWHP per cube with the setup listed.
Typically 1RWHP per cube takes 10:1 compression, good components, & peak HP at 5800-6000RPM.
The above 347's are making between 1.27-1.34RWHP per cube & run large ported heads, VERY large agressive camshafts, 11+:1 compression, large off-road exhaust, valvetrain modifications to keep things stable at high RPM, & low drag on the accessories (electric fan, water pump, etc) & shift at the track around 6800rpm.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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PWR HNGRY 302
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Member # 6000
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posted
^Damn i want one of those
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87 Fox- Restoration in progress
2014 Tacoma DCLB MGM
2017 Prius Prime (The Daily)
Posts: 2655 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Sep 2005
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PWR HNGRY 302:
^Damn i want one of those
Here's how to build one:
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/10/BuildersNotebook/index.php
*Note* With a little more compression & a camshaft swap this motor ended up putting down 442/395 to the tires. With an electric water pump 450RW is in reach.
Again, this is NOT the norm. The other 347 that put down 466RWHP is very similar in combination (more compression, bigger cam, smaller heads, larger TB, electric water pump, etc). When it was dynoed it was the highest HP N/A EFI 347 in the country running pump gas. I'm sure someone has blown away that # by now...
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
shit i was thinkin 347 not 331......i guess i kinda over esmitated, put somethin around there though
347 might make a little more power but when You are using a small outdated camshaft You will never get the elite #'s. Now I am not saying it would'nt make some good power and be a fun street car either. You don't have any room for error when You are N/A, now forced induction is a great bandaid that can overcome some of the mismatched component's in a combo.
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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cdog301
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Member # 5136
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posted
smokin lx is right but then it becomes a can I pass the sniffer game! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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1992 Notch
Dss Pro Bullet
Afr 165's
GT40 U/L
Bassani X w/cats
and other goodies!!!!!!!
I love MOSTLY MUSTANGS OAKLAND CA
Posts: 386 | From: Richmond CA | Registered: Dec 2004
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BlueOvalRacing
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Member # 1531
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posted
My 331 (10.2 to 1 comp) with 185's and a small lunati cam, pn 51014 218'I, 226'E @.050, 112' lobe seperation, .500/.510 lift, made 305 hp, 351 torque through bassani shorties and bbk high flow cats, ported explorer intake, 1.6 comp pro mag rockers, 65mm tb, short belt, electric fan, 14* timing, c&l and 24lb injectors.
I wouldn't expect that you would make more than 330/370 with your combo, depending on compression ratio.
*edit* And mine will pass the sniffer, but not the visual
[ July 22, 2007, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: BlueOvalRacing ]
Posts: 1159 | From: Pioneer | Registered: Jul 2002
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LQ9SN95
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Member # 7080
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
My 331 (10.2 to 1 comp) with 185's and a small lunati cam, pn 51014 218'I, 226'E @.050, 112' lobe seperation, .500/.510 lift, made 305 hp, 351 torque through bassani shorties and bbk high flow cats, ported explorer intake, 1.6 comp pro mag rockers, 65mm tb, short belt, electric fan, 14* timing, c&l and 24lb injectors.
I wouldn't expect that you would make more than 330/370 with your combo, depending on compression ratio.
*edit* And mine will pass the sniffer, but not the visual
something sounds wrong with those #'s
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http://www.fastgms-teamfast.com
http://www.facebook.com/aop.fresno?ref=ts&fref=ts
Lq9 swap
102 fast intake
Trick flow heads
T rex cam
Posts: 8031 | From: Fresno, Ca | Registered: Sep 2006
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onesicklx
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Member # 285
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
quote:
Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
My 331 (10.2 to 1 comp) with 185's and a small lunati cam, pn 51014 218'I, 226'E @.050, 112' lobe seperation, .500/.510 lift, made 305 hp, 351 torque through bassani shorties and bbk high flow cats, ported explorer intake, 1.6 comp pro mag rockers, 65mm tb, short belt, electric fan, 14* timing, c&l and 24lb injectors.
I wouldn't expect that you would make more than 330/370 with your combo, depending on compression ratio.
*edit* And mine will pass the sniffer, but not the visual
something sounds wrong with those #'s
acutally those numbers look decent to me...
Posts: 1955 | From: san jose, CA | Registered: Jun 2001
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
its good torque but hp seems a bit low.....
i have pretty much all the except heads and stroker and im at 250/291
You have to take dyno #'s with a grain of salt. I am sure if You went to 5 different dyno's You would see AT LEAST a 10% difference between them so for a 300 rwhp car that would be a 30 hp swing. Plus peak hp & peak tq don't alway's tell the whole story. Compare a 450rwhp civic againt a 07 shelby cobra's dyno graph and they will both make the same peak hp but the usable hp and tq is night and day between them! For Me You take it to the strip and prove Your point & tune on the dyno. Dyno #'s = internet racing, both are pointless. I know I am not telling anyone anything they don't know just putting in My input .
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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BlueOvalRacing
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Member # 1531
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posted
I'm OK with the numbers. Going in to the dyno tests I wanted to see 330/360, and came up short on the HP. I even switched to 1.7 rockers to see if there would be a gain, but there was no change. I bought an RPM2 intake to replace the Explorer setup, but was too lazy to port it and try it out. I think it may have been worth a few more horsepower, but honestly I don't care anymore. If I get a wild hair up my ass I'll put a reworked version of it in my 67 and make some better #'s.
Posts: 1159 | From: Pioneer | Registered: Jul 2002
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BlueOvalRacing
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Member # 1531
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
its good torque but hp seems a bit low.....
i have pretty much all the except heads and stroker and im at 250/291
You have to take dyno #'s with a grain of salt. I am sure if You went to 5 different dyno's You would see AT LEAST a 10% difference between them so for a 300 rwhp car that would be a 30 hp swing. Plus peak hp & peak tq don't alway's tell the whole story. Compare a 450rwhp civic againt a 07 shelby cobra's dyno graph and they will both make the same peak hp but the usable hp and tq is night and day between them! For Me You take it to the strip and prove Your point & tune on the dyno. Dyno #'s = internet racing, both are pointless. I know I am not telling anyone anything they don't know just putting in My input .
BINGO! the car runs hard, and that's all I ever cared about.
Posts: 1159 | From: Pioneer | Registered: Jul 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Horsepower = (Torque * RPM)/5252
TQ tells the true power output of a motor. Horsepower is simply calculated from torque. If you build a low RPM motor, you will ALWAYS have more Torque than Horsepower.
An N/A 331 making 351RWTQ is damn good IMO. Is there room on the table for more Horsepower? Yes. Swap out some parts & you can expect more HP & possible the same TQ, swap out other parts & you may be exchanging low end torque for higher RPM horsepower.
In the 305/351 example above, a cam/intake swap & a check of the exhaust to make sure there's no restrictions & the combo could easily pick up 20+hp without losing too much torque. Will it lose some TQ? Yes, at low RPM it will definately lose some TQ, but it may end up peaking around the same (351RWTQ) at a higher RPM & therefore make more HP.
EX:
A motor making 350RWTQ at 4000RPM is making 266RWHP at 4000RPM.
A motor making the exact same 350RWTQ at 5000RPM is making 333RWHP at 5000RPM.
A motor making 250RWTQ at 7000RPM (100 less than the above example) is making the same 333RWHP but at 7000RPM.
Your next question might be: 'So, which setup is faster?'
That is a whole other ball game! In general, a heavier car will respond better at the strip from more low end TQ. A bike will run faster with more HP at higher RPM's.
It's all relative... Don't assume that because it makes a lot of TQ it will make a lot of HP. It's RPM dependant.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Pure Stang
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Member # 7251
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posted
cool stuff
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HEART BREAKER
R.I.P Willie Guzman (5ltrsvt) you will be missed brother.
04/24/87 - 11/23/2012
90 lx 347 RIP
86 gt
89 lx- next project
Posts: 6497 | From: San Jose | Registered: Nov 2006
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