How much hp from a Vortech T-trim - Northern California Ford Owners

This is topic How much hp from a Vortech T-trim in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .

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Posted by Hater (Member # 3085) on :

In a near future I would like to install a Vortech T-trim on my 01 mustang,,since I have a bullet proof block,,I want to get the most out of it,,Without porting my heads or adding cams,,whats the most horsepower i could get with that blower using 91 octane fuel?

Posted by Jeff S (Member # 371) on :

Would you be using any type of inter/aftercooler or water/methnol injection? What compression ratio is the shortblock?

Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :

I'm not too sure about the T trim specifically but it seems like that would be a less efficient blower for your non-ported but fully built motor than say another trim (S, SQ) etc.

The reason i say that is because on 91 pump that will probably be the limiting factor for utmost timing and fuel curves. Also would depend upon your fuel set-up situation.

It's obviuos that the blower could put out lots of CFM but w/o the proper amount of fuel for safety you would be cutting down the efficiency of the big blower by not having the heads/cams to flow the same rate throught the motor.

Granted you could i'm sure make over 400+ but on 91...if you wnet up in boost you'd probably have to sacrifice a lot of timing to keep it safe?

Hope i make some sense and this is all from previous experience and learned info about forced induction.

I'm sure there is a compressor map just like for turbos that could be read to figure out where exactly all that power would be useful and w/ type of fuel octane and timing.....i just haven't researched that for blowers...

Posted by mtbaughs (Member # 4052) on :

Are we talking a GT or Cobra. I know there was a cobra that year and I think a GT as well. Not sure though. Let me know.

Posted by 66 AC COBRA (Member # 904) on :

its a gt with a built motor for nitrous/pump gas

the motor was built for a large nitrous hit so the rings gap is gonna be huge, its gonna be atleast 10:1, so not real blower friendly with pump gas

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

Ring Gap on Blower motors is as large or larger than with NOS. That should not be a issue. With that high of compresion you will have to be careful on the tune. I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost. on stock engines figure 10 HP per every pound of boost on modified engines it can be 13 to 17 HP per pound of boost, These are rough guess figures I have read.

[ November 25, 2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]

Posted by Jeff S (Member # 371) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
Ring Gap on Blower motors is as large or larger than with NOS. That should not be a issue. With that high of compresion you will have to be careful on the tune. I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost. on stock engines figure 10 HP per every pound of boost on modified engines it can be 13 to 17 HP per pound of boost, These are rough guess figures I have read.

water injection!

Posted by Jeff S (Member # 371) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
I'm not too sure about the T trim specifically but it seems like that would be a less efficient blower for your non-ported but fully built motor than say another trim (S, SQ) etc.

Agreed. The S-trim would be a much better choice for your combo.

Posted by BlackNGold (Member # 655) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
I am going to sound like a broken record here but you could run a alch/water injection unit and saftley run some pretty good boost.

Water doesn't compress...If used incorrectly it will jack your motor...I mean, you would have to use a lot of water, but I still don't like the idea...It's kinda like a poor mans intercooler...Plus an intercooler is always there, you don't have to worry about running out of water/alch....

Yeah, I would just pulley down an S-trim for your combo...

Just my .02

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

Black and Gold you obvously don't know how the systems work. You hardly use any of the mix and systems have alams so unless you are a complete moron you will never run out. These kits are highly thought out and designed and run on some of the fastest cars around they are really popular on turbo vehicals. Any how it isn't your grandpa's water injection. Plus last time I checked Gass doesn't compress in liquid form either.

Posted by BlackNGold (Member # 655) on :

Gas will ignite water doesn't...

ANYWAY, without getting into a heated detate it still doesn't change the fact that you either have to rely on pressureized tanks or pumps to run a water injection system...

I've looked into getting a water injection kit for my Merkur for a while and after reading a lot of info I just felt that an intercooler would be a better choice, especially for me....

Posted by Jeff S (Member # 371) on :

As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.

Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff S:
As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.

Exactly becasue you wouldn't want to be running that close to the threshold of breaking as far as tune goes w/o the water inj. anyway........i would always prefer to run an inter/after cooler in comparison to H20 inj. if at all feasable.

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

I run a 50/50 mix of water and methonal it ignites. I guess a 1500 dollar intercooler for my car plus the battery relocation kit would have been alot better than the 300.00 dollars I have invested in my boost cooler, but I am very happy with the way I went. Plus I like the extra HP and more boost I get out of doing it the way I did [Wink]

Posted by mtbaughs (Member # 4052) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff S:
As long as the car is tuned CORRECTLY if the water injection system were to run out of fluid there should not be any negative affects on the motor other than a loss of power.

This is quite true. If you were to run out of water/meth your air intake temps would rise. Thus a properly tuned car would have it's timing verses air intake values set up for such a situation. In other words as temps leave the 80 degree or so range which is normal for an intercooler/water injected car the chip would simply reach an air temp range where timing is reduced.

Each method of cooling air intake charges has it's downfalls. Water to air such as a Vortech aftercooler can suffer from heat soaking the water after prolonged use. Air to air coolers can suffer from extremely hot days and of course water injection requires the re-fill of the storage tank. You can't beat the cost of water injection. It is reliable. As reliable as any other system which requires a pump to move fluid. Included in most good systems is a LED which lights up when the system is active. No light no cooler basically. Some people want a no fuss cooling system. Basically air to air is the only thing not requiring any up keep. Water to air is close though you will need to fill the storage tank from time to time.

Posted by mtbaughs (Member # 4052) on :

I'd consider this as what I would do in your situation. If no air intake cooler is present I'd stick to a S-trim. If you are running some sort of a cooler a T-trim would be what I would buy. As far as horsepower #'s go it depends on what you end up with both blower trim letter and also if a cooler is present

Posted by RobertTS (Member # 1022) on :

My engine was not exactly built for nitrous,,my compression is 9.2:1..so Its basically the stock compression.

Posted by BlackNGold (Member # 655) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
I run a 50/50 mix of water and methonal it ignites. I guess a 1500 dollar intercooler for my car plus the battery relocation kit would have been alot better than the 300.00 dollars I have invested in my boost cooler, but I am very happy with the way I went. Plus I like the extra HP and more boost I get out of doing it the way I did

Mmm, I paid $30 for a Volvo 740 intercooler at the junk yard for my force fed engine...I won't have to relocate my battery either... [Big Grin]

To each their own!.. [patriot]

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

why don't you post some pics and some performance numbers. I would really like to see how it turned out and what results you are getting thanks. Do you think a intercooler designed for a turbo 4 cyl is going to be enough for a supercharged V-8?

[ November 26, 2004, 07:29 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

Water does ignite at fairly high temps. It also compresses....just not very easily. Probably due to the oxygen in it. Ever wonder why a water contaminated brake system gives you a squishy pedal? [Wink]

The water/meth setups are highly effective when tuned correctly. They also make for a very clean motor! I'm all for those setups.....although in my case I'd rather spend the $300 on 100octane. [Smile]

Posted by BlackNGold (Member # 655) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
why don't you post some pics and some performance numbers. I would really like to see how it turned out and what results you are getting thanks. Do you think a intercooler designed for a turbo 4 cyl is going to be enough for a supercharged V-8?

As soon as I install the Volvo or whatever intercooler I would love to take some pics and post results...Right now I would be happy to find the time to even fix a T-stat housing leak and even wash the damn car!...

To answer your question, intercoolers are designed to run at certain CFM, whatever gives you the best cooling with minimal pressure drop is what you should use...I think my 3" inlet and outlets with a core bigger than my radiator should cool my intake charge, but I'll probably loose atleast a few pounds of boost...But that's why I made my own "OSH special" boost controller... [Wink]

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

extra HP for me then just buy adding water/meth [Wink]

[ November 27, 2004, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]

Posted by JoeT (Member # 298) on :

I'd like to see some data on the combustion of H20, also it's compressability.

The last doc I saw on the compressability of water performed in a laboratory showed around 0.0001% compression for something like a million tons per square inch. So yes, technically compressible.

Combustible? Combustible in terms of super-plasma like temperatures and pressure?

Otherwise, water is most assuredly non-combustible. Once disassociated into hydrogen and oxygen, by definition it is no longer water.

my $0.01

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