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Author
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Topic: The perfect cam-Need Help!
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
 
 
It's like this, I got a DSS 331 with AFR 185
(untouched), Holley Systemax intake, 1.7 RR, with
an "E" cam. So far I've clocked a best of 12.8 at consistant 110, without a power adder, not to bad but I'm looking for a little more out it. Let's say about as fast as a ZO6 if not faster, at about 114-115 MPH in the quarter mile, NA, but keeping it CA emissions friendly.
My questions are : I've heard that even in a mild application, say 220 int. 220 ex., if the overlap of cam is too large that the cam will not pass smog, does this mean that having the samllest overlap possible will help the car pass? What are the specifics of the cam am I looking for to make that power and still pass? Is it even possible? I want to take it up to a 6300-6500 shift point, will that be a factor?
93Pony I spoke to you brefiely at the car show about my intentions...anybody with experience please share.
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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cobraman_1994
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Member # 467
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posted
well, a custom cam would be nice, but those tend to not be emmissions friendly. i think the f cam has enough to go up that high. but as im sure you knoiw already, the e falls on its face way before that
im not sure if the f cam will pass though. ive heard it does, then i heard it doesnt ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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86 GT
Posts: 4882 | From: eldorado hills | Registered: Sep 2001
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Pro50Eric
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Member # 2065
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posted
The F cam is a bad cam. It performs up high like you want it too and runs good on the bottom end of the torque curve and the mid range as well. It gets my vote.
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Recently Acquired!! 68 Camaro Outlaw 10.5
Posts: 107 | From: Va | Registered: Nov 2002
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
The F cam doesn't seem like a bad cam. Has anyone ever tried smogging with an F cam?
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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ray95
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Member # 752
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posted
Like Mr. Dick Head said ( ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ), a custom cam would be great. A good 20 - 40 hp over an off the shelf cam. I would talk to Shaun (93Pony) and AaronC. They are wizards with cams. Full of knowledge. They helped me out tramendously!
[ November 21, 2002, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: ray95 ]
Posts: 895 | From: The Bay Area | Registered: Jan 2002
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
Did you go with a HiTech?
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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ray95
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Member # 752
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posted
I went with a cam from Ed Curtis at FTI (http://www.flowtechinduction.com/). Should have the motor put together within a few more weeks.
Posts: 895 | From: The Bay Area | Registered: Jan 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Aaron & I speced out a custom for Ray. 224/224 112LSA blower grind. It'd work on your car, but a smaller exhaust lobe works better w/AFR's N/A.
As for your setup, the limitations are smog & stock valvetrain. & I know of a cam that'll work great!
As for the F....eh. You can do much better. The F has lazy ramp-rates comparted to the XE ramps which will run much harder in your car.
How about a 224/222 111LSA. 1 degree of overlap so it'll smog, has XE series ramps & is actually a HiTech cam. It's Aaron's old cam. He put out 340/340 NA w/a 306, opened up AFR165's & full long-tube exhaust.
Your setup & that cam should get you 350/350 easily. (conservative)
It has a Compcams part # so you can order it directly from them....or give credit were it's due & order it from Brian.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ray95:
I went with a cam from Ed Curtis at FTI (http://www.flowtechinduction.com/). Should have the motor put together within a few more weeks.
Right on! Do you know the specs?
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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cobraman_1994
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Member # 467
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posted
ray, call me when youre going to do the motor install. id be glad too help
edit: youll need my number to call me. lol
774 6363
[ November 21, 2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: cobraman1994 ]
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86 GT
Posts: 4882 | From: eldorado hills | Registered: Sep 2001
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ray95
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Member # 752
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posted
Shaun - I don't know the specs yet but should get them soon. I got the cam and springs coming. I'm going to have to wait for a couple weeks to get the vertical lock lifters though. What days are you off work? Give me a call.
David - Got it saved in my phone now. Thanks for the offer bro.
I'm going to do a lot of wrenching and cleaning this weekend so if you guys want to stop by that would be cool. I'm going to try to get the motor out and get the car ready to put the new one in. Let me know if you guys are coming.
Posts: 895 | From: The Bay Area | Registered: Jan 2002
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
TFS stage 2 (224/232) would probably be a runner in your car too.
$139 new, less than $100 used.
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shade-tree:
TFS stage 2 (224/232) would probably be a runner in your car too.
$139 new, less than $100 used.
Way too much exhaust bias. + too much valve overlap. Dman thing will only pass smog with choked up exhaust. The E that's in there will make more down low & nearly as much up top.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
what headers do you run? Camara90's old combo with the X cam ran hard for what it had. He had the 165's and trapped 113-114. It shifted out at 6k. His new (now old, upgrading again) combo ran 118-119 with the custom cam and 185's. He's got 1 3/4 longtubes, 2.5" H/pipes. A cam with the XE lobes would be best. Smog will limit the HP but 115 shouldn't be a problem depending on weight.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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CustomFastbackCA
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Member # 1369
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posted
Call Bullet Racing Cams, they do all the custom camshaft work for Coast High Performance and Probe Industries. 662-893-5670. They could set you up with a custom ground cam for you application.
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www.CustomFastbackCA.com
1995 Dinan M3 Avus Blue Metallic
1967 GT Mustang Fastback (Eleanor)
Ask questions if you have'em, anyone who thinks they're too cool, know's it all, or doesn't want to look stupid has more problems than you.
Posts: 346 | From: Santa Clara | Registered: Jun 2002
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
Well, with my current set up I made 310 rwhp and 335 ftlbs of tourqe. Now that was with about 900 miles on the engine and before the pullies and electric fan, it feels much faster than when I dynoed it. I still have the same headers as when I dynoed the car- BBK 15/8 equal lengths. Last time I weighed it at Sac. it came out to 3190 with 3/4 tank full of gas. Do you think I'll get consistant 115's out of that cam you recomended 93Pony? Also if I was to add lift to the cam, would that increase the RPM at which it peaks?
ArronC - How did you like the driveablity of the cam down low? Where did you shift at?...hypotheically speaking, with your 306 setup, if you shifted at 6000, would I be shifting at about 5750 due to the higher displacement? Did you ever take your car to the track and if so what were your best times? And did you ever try to smog the car?
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Yes, that cam will get you 115mph easily.
Aaron was on his way to ~113's in a 306 Vert, smaller heads, but a better exhaust.
Peak lift has little to do with HP peaks. Has more to do with ramp-rates then anything. Aarons old cam is deceptively small. Idled a tad lumpier then stock & pulled hard.
& you are correct about the 331 making peak power sooner then the 306.
Aaron should chime in on shift-points w/his 306....I believe it was ~6200 or so.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
It may be hard to answer my question since it may be difficult to specify that only one part of the cam is decides where it makes peak power. The ramp rates are the the angle of the slope on the lobe? THe higher ramp rates the more top end? Also since this cam has less overlap that means that the exhaust will scavenge less unburned fuel...is this a correct assumption? In the past I've usally associated duration with power outout...as in the X cam has 224 degrees of duration compared to a the E cam which has 220 degrees of duration. Which leads me to the question, will the cam you recomended make more power than the F cam? How does the lift fit into the equation of making power.
Too many questions! thanx for all the help ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Ah! You have some knowledge of cams. Good!
Yes, ramp-rates are how fast the valve is opened & closed.
For a particular ramp-rate it would be true that power output would be determined by the intake lobe duration. Thus the X to E analogy holds true. Aaron's cam has XE lobes which have *much* faster ramp-rates.
The FMS cams have slower ramp-rates, so the duration at .200 lift (were the heads REALLY flow & make power) is less then a smaller advertised lobe on an XE cam.
So, the XE looks small, but has more duration at .200 were the heads can really flow...& produces more power.
You are correct about the scavanging. For a smog grind a safe number is 1-2 degrees overlap @.050 lift.
What Aaron & I concentrate on is valve-events. These are often overlooked, yet are just as important as advertised duration. Get the valve-events correct & the power will follow!
[ November 21, 2002, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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93Snyper
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Member # 1058
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posted
Is the Hi Tech cam the same as the CompCam, or did the guys at HiTech improve on the base-the compcam? I'll give the guys at HiTech a ring, anybody specific I should talk to? Wait, does anyone have their # or a website?
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Positive Energy Activates Constant Elevation
Posts: 147 | From: FiveTen | Registered: Mar 2002
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
My vote is for the trick flow stage 1. A lot of people will laugh at this. I have gone 11.92@115.118 with this cam. works good and its cheap. ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Brian Ebert at www.hitechmotorsport.com uses comp's lobes for his custom grinds. Anyone can call up comp & have a custom made using their lobes.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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