This is topic Kenne Bell or Procharger???? in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by 98 cobra wannabe (Member # 1045) on :
 
Ok, I have been saving for a while for a supercharger since i have a shitty job & all, it takes forever, I was thinking of going with the Procharger intercooled system, but my brother tells me i should go with kenne bell roots type.
i figured if anyone could help it would be you guys. Thanks in advance
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
I wouldn't listen to anything else your brother says The kennebell will make about 50+ less RWHP. Sure, you'll have great throttle response, but you won't be able to keep up with many all motor LS1's and will be far behind centrifical blower 4V's.
 

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Posted by 2001s281 (Member # 653) on :
 
the new kennebelle roots blower is sweet, it gives a ton of torque and wont run out of power in the higher rpms like other roots type. go to muscle mustangs and fast fords they did an article on the new kennebelle u might be amazed.
 

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Posted by 1SicgrnGT (Member # 679) on :
 
i was told the root style blowers give quick hp but in the long run, the regular superchargers will pass them up. but for my $0.02 ide go with a procharger and a 3 core intercooler.
 

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Posted by Wolfie351 (Member # 651) on :
 
I don't really think you can go wrong with either one. But, if you want to sit around comparing d**k sizes and showing off peak horespower numbers, get the Procharger. If you want good street performance and slam your friends back in their seat, get the kenne-bell. The misconception is that all positive displacement blowers are the same. The twin screw blowers are 10 times better than the roots (Eaton) type. Take a look at the new Saleen S281-E It only makes 425hp, but does 11 sec 1/4 mile times (MM&FF Apr 2002). I know a lot out there with 500hp and getting the same times. Low end torque is what makes a street car "fun" to drive.
 

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Posted by v8302stangs (Member # 530) on :
 
High speed or track drag racing = get the centrifugal

Street, road race, just plain sexy power = kenne belle

at least that's what I gather

go to...
http://www.schwarzmann.com/

and look at his 95 with a kenne bell - he has all the real life 411 you would need kenne bell also looks a lot simpler and a lot easier to install than a centrifugal BASICALLY all you have to do is replace your upper intake.
 

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Posted by j0k3r (Member # 826) on :
 
Don't count out the new Kenne Bell that hasn't been released yet. They made over 400rwhp with the Autorotor 3150 and yes, I am on the waiting list
 

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Posted by Chris_67_SC_408 (Member # 936) on :
 
but then if you want to make real power you have to tell people that you put the "blowzilla" with a "flowzilla" on it. How bout build a stroker and put a centrifugal on it, low end torque, top end boost.
 

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Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 
Go for a ride in a Y or T trim car.

Double X car.

Or a D3R car and you will realize the power of them.

I dont see many motors over 500hp with anything but centrifugals on them.

the roots are cool but you cant loose with the tried and true.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Or, get all the low-end torque you can handle PLUS all that upper rpm HP....with a Turbo.
Added sleeper bonus.
 

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Posted by FordPny (Member # 510) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
with a Turbo.

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Mmmm...TURBO

 

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Posted by j0k3r (Member # 826) on :
 
I will be happy with 400 to the wheels. That is my goal for this car. I want a daily driven stoplight warrior. So, the Kenne Bell is fine for me and occasional 1320ft trip down the track.
 

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Posted by v8302stangs (Member # 530) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Or, get all the low-end torque you can handle PLUS all that upper rpm HP....with a Turbo.
Added sleeper bonus.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
Hmmm....I wouldn't put "Kenne Bell" and "road racing" in the same sentence. They pump a LOT of heat into the engine and don't like turning high rpms. Basically, it's a truck blower, and you'd be putting it on a 7rpm motor. We've dynoed probably three or four DOHCs with KBs, and they barely wheezed 330-340rwhp. While the low rpm grunt was nice, they were severely lacking in building much high-rpm hp. We were able to make 410rwhp with a smaller pulley, water injection, larger injectors, bigger MAF, oval throttle body, and custom dyno-tuning.
If it were my car, a centrifugal blower would be my #1 choice.

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quote:

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Originally posted by v8302stangs:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
Hmmm....I wouldn't put "Kenne Bell" and "road racing" in the same sentence. They pump a LOT of heat into the engine and don't like turning high rpms. Basically, it's a truck blower, and you'd be putting it on a 7rpm motor. We've dynoed probably three or four DOHCs with KBs, and they barely wheezed 330-340rwhp. While the low rpm grunt was nice, they were severely lacking in building much high-rpm hp. We were able to make 410rwhp with a smaller pulley, water injection, larger injectors, bigger MAF, oval throttle body, and custom dyno-tuning.
If it were my car, a centrifugal blower would be my #1 choice.

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Ah yeah good call - I didn't think about that. The other big thing about KBs do seem to be the increased intake temp. Either way, good torque from low rpm couldn't hurt on a track, eh?

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Take your car for a spin, bang 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear. See what your RPM drops to after each shift. I'll save you the time and tell you its a bit less than 4,000ish RPM. When "racing", power under 4K RPM doesn't matter. If you're drag racing, some real tires will keep you around 4Kish RPM durring launch as well.

Bill brings up great points. I can verify the dyno numbers with my own eyes. I remember a black 4V cobra making about 350ish RWHP... a few cars later another Cobra got on the dyno with a similar setup, but a centrifical... knocked out 60 more RWHP. Stop light, drag strip or road course, the two cars won't be in the same zip code if they raced

I love the KB crowd. They have about four owners with web pages up running decent times. The other several thousand KB owners are online 24hours a day posting the links to these 4 guys and talking about low RPM this and streetable that since their car own KB car is ... pinging on the street, over heating on the road course and getting spanked by every centrifical blower car at the drag strip.

jok3r- When you get your KB kit on, you have to race a Vortech/ATI/NOVI GT with a similar setup. Don't forget your KB's reciept. You'll need it for a refund Don't fall for BS magazine adds.

[ April 20, 2002, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
 

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Posted by 95Camaro (Member # 611) on :
 
What kind of numbers do turbo chargers add? If I were to put a stage 1 TDC kit on my car, what kind of numbers would it put out compared to a vortech s trim?
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 95Camaro:
What kind of numbers do turbo chargers add? If I were to put a stage 1 TDC kit on my car, what kind of numbers would it put out compared to a vortech s trim?

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The S trim is cheaper, easier to install and maintain (change plugs, ect) and can already make enough power to out-do what the returnless fuel system on your car can keep up with.
 

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Posted by Kevin99GT (Member # 272) on :
 
Hahaha ... great thread.

And don't forget guys, the quick solution to your low-end "problem" (if you wanna call it that), is a nice set of gears matched with your centri. Getting to max boost will be quick and painless with 4.10s or 4.30s on a Cobra (okay, 4.30s might be too much, depending on how hard core you wanna go) -- but you'll be reaping the benefits of multiplied torque plus much higher power numbers you'll get out of a vortech or procharger in the first place.

P1-SC Prochargers on a 4.6 still scare the crap outta me though. Too many *BOOM!*'s with the oiling issue that they've been claiming to have fixed for over a year now .... I'd go Vortech.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin99GT:
Hahaha ... great thread.

And don't forget guys, the quick solution to your low-end "problem" (if you wanna call it that), is a nice set of gears matched with your centri. Getting to max boost will be quick and painless with 4.10s or 4.30s on a Cobra (okay, 4.30s might be too much, depending on how hard core you wanna go) -- but you'll be reaping the benefits of multiplied torque plus much higher power numbers you'll get out of a vortech or procharger in the first place.

P1-SC Prochargers on a 4.6 still scare the crap outta me though. Too many *BOOM!*'s with the oiling issue that they've been claiming to have fixed for over a year now .... I'd go Vortech.

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Well said! Actually doing the math, 4.30's + S-Trim on a 4.6L cobra is just right... 120 MPH at 7,000 RPM at the top of 4th gear.... its the most optimal gear for the best ET with 26 inch tires.

I guess this post can be summed up this way:

KB's sound good in magazines and web pages, but on the street and on the track you'll never see them do anything impressive except "feeling" fast.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
At the track last night there was a guy with an 01 GT. Had a Vortec without intercooler/aftercooler running 118mph UNTUNED!. All the runs I saw were sweet. Lowest MPH beeing 115.9. Slap on an intercooler & get that thing tuned & low 11's are in the future with 120+ time slips.

There are only a few modulars running the TDC kits. For $5K they seem to be getting about the same HP as blower setups. The difference is torque. How many modular blower combo's out there put down significantly more torque than HP? The turbo cars do. Like Sawson said, at the track, the difference would be minimal since RPM should be up behond 4K.

Price wise there's also not much difference. A fully setup car with a Vortec, fuel system, intercooler, mass-air, tuning, etc. Is going to be about the same price as any given turbo kit. The difference being most Turbo kits come with the cost of some of these things built in. I don't know of any kit out there that doesn't come with an intercooler & fuel system.

IMO, it comes down to preference.
 

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Posted by Mikal (Member # 652) on :
 
I have had both. if you want, email me.
-Mike
whipplecharged5o@aol.com
 

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Posted by v8302stangs (Member # 530) on :
 
What does the boost curve on a centrifugal look like when it is intercooled vs. non intercooled?
 

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Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 
There is a Spetter tuned TDC 4.6 2V running an auto and it went 10.8s with a stock lonblock intake etc
 

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Posted by 98 cobra wannabe (Member # 1045) on :
 
Thanks, guys you've been alot of help and most of you know a hella lot more than me since im new to the game. I think Procharger will be what you read on my windshield when you see me coming.
 

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Posted by WIKD 281 (Member # 40) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by j0k3r:
I will be happy with 400 to the wheels. That is my goal for this car. I want a daily driven stoplight warrior. So, the Kenne Bell is fine for me and occasional 1320ft trip down the track.

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LOL> Dont kid yourself> as soon as you get your 400rwhp> within a week youll be wanting more:D
Especially if you are a stoplight warrior and driving like this all the time> racing all over town> youll find yourself unhappy with 400rwhp soon> then 500rwh will not be enough> then.....you get the picture!
Get ready for the hp bug.
Hope it doesnt bite too hard! I know it bit me hard> I'm now seeking counseling to get rid of my speed addiction> he he> lol J/K
 

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Posted by j0k3r (Member # 826) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by WIKD 281:

quote:

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Originally posted by j0k3r:
I will be happy with 400 to the wheels. That is my goal for this car. I want a daily driven stoplight warrior. So, the Kenne Bell is fine for me and occasional 1320ft trip down the track.

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LOL> Dont kid yourself> as soon as you get your 400rwhp> within a week youll be wanting more:D
Especially if you are a stoplight warrior and driving like this all the time> racing all over town> youll find yourself unhappy with 400rwhp soon> then 500rwh will not be enough> then.....you get the picture!
Get ready for the hp bug.
Hope it doesnt bite too hard! I know it bit me hard> I'm now seeking counseling to get rid of my speed addiction> he he> lol J/K

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I have to set my limits though. I have a baby due in June
 

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Posted by Chris_67_SC_408 (Member # 936) on :
 
why procharger instead of paxton?
 

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Posted by Chris_67_SC_408 (Member # 936) on :
 
okay that makes sense, i never considered ATI because they dont make an intercooler kit for my car since there is no room on the car to mount it.
 

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Posted by 98 cobra wannabe (Member # 1045) on :
 
Yeah i am going toward ATI because of the intercooler. And I am going to be in big trouble because i know after driving it for a week or two it will seem slow to me still and i will just have to go and get some other toys. to bad i don't make shit. LOL
 

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Posted by Toxicity of Dank (Member # 801) on :
 
Bout the superchargers.....if you are going to run them both at about 8lbs of boost, the root style blower is better, barely. After about 12 lbs of boost though, the root style blower is no longer good. At bout 12 lbs the centrifugal procharger style will kick its ass. They are much better at high lbs of boost. So if you plan to run anything above 8 lbs of boost, go with procharger....there superchargers, some of them, can go up to 30 lbs of boost. So it depends how big of boost you want!
 

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Posted by Yung Than (Member # 728) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Toxicity of Dank:
Bout the superchargers.....if you are going to run them both at about 8lbs of boost, the root style blower is better, barely. After about 12 lbs of boost though, the root style blower is no longer good. At bout 12 lbs the centrifugal procharger style will kick its ass. They are much better at high lbs of boost. So if you plan to run anything above 8 lbs of boost, go with procharger....there superchargers, some of them, can go up to 30 lbs of boost. So it depends how big of boost you want!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yung Than:
But how much boost can you run on the stock block before you blow the hell up? I heard tht over 11 lbs is just barely cutting it before sumthin' calls it quits......

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