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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
What kind of combo do you guys recomend for my upcoming 351W. heads, intake........ supercharger? hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
David,

It all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for. What kind of "power band" are you looking for. Power off idle...power top end? Torque...horsepower??? Also..what kind of budget? I personally would build a nasty 306 or maybe even a 331, but whatever floats your boat.... We need more info Dave!

Jack
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
well, high end horsepower is fun, thats what my car is good with when its running right. But, nothing is better then watching your friends head slam into the back of the seat. So im thinking low end torque. Im not quite sure on how much money I will have, so lets "pretend" that its not an issue.
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
money is no issue...392 stroker. FULLY FORGED LOWER, 4 bolt mains...don't feel like typing everything, basically, AFR heads done up, nice matching cam, and about 300 shot of the silly juice. Trust me, I have this combo written out on paper...that and the [Worship] 514 ci beast [Worship] I thought up!!!

Jack [Worship]
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
dude that would be nice. you know, on another note, I will be looking for a short shifter pretty soon. So if you have yours in a couple of weeks I'll definatly buy it. Me and third gear don't really get along very well. On the motor issue, I think I'm going to stay in the 351 area, for now
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
ok, but if you want something nasty...let me know...hope you win the lotto first!!!!
 
Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
How much boost? Whats the over all goal? I wouldn't go with anything less than AFR185's regardless. I would consider AFR205's, Victor JR's, TFS-R's (maybe), ect. TFS 351 R intake..... You're going to need a real tranny and a real fuel system. $$$$$$. If money where no object, personally, I'd buy a house first
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
I want it fast. Not mild, but not fucking insane. something in between. 400-500 range. that way when some fag in his new vette w/ his girlfriend pulls up and talks shit(which does happen to me a lot), I can give him a nice lesson in what getting spanked feels like.
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
The blower or NOS is the very last thing that I will do. I havnt even given it much thought. I'll definatly wait until next year to get a blower. I should be all paid off by then
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
Hey Jack, I heard that ricky's car got all fucked up. Do you know what happened?
 
Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
I think you should just research a solid heads/intake/cam combo for your stock bottem end. Take it to the track often and see how you measure up compared to others with similar combos, both at the track and online. Chances are once you've done this, you'll be enlightened and not worry so much about a vette in the other lane. In the mean time, invest that 351W money in stocks. Certain sectors of the major are extremely low right now


Just my two cents
 

Posted by THE COUG (Member # 743) on :
 
Well seeing as I will never get a race. I'll let you guy's in on some info I have to share about this topic. Allot of things matter about a engine combo but the first mistake people make with the 351w is to go steel crank 4 bolt main etc etc. The fact is the 351w is a very stout short block. I have been racing it for 10 years now and can tell you that the stock crank and block are very strong (unlike the 302). Also if your talking about drag racing a 10 in tire car with stock rear suspension you would be better off to stick with the 351w displacement. The reason for this is the torque that the stocker 392 etc etc make down low good luck getting that throw you back in the seat feeling when the tires just spin!
I think the best heads for the money are the Vic jr's. For a grand you get a head that flows very well and is capible of 700 hp with juice or a blower! However with any big valve head you must have a cam with allot of lift so as to not impede the flow of the head by shrouding the port. Kinda blocking it if you will so a minimum lift of 550 would be best. Then there is the reast of the issue's blower, nos, gears, stall conv, stick, smog concern, etc.
Here is the combo I run
Solid roller cam 588 598 lift 264 272@50 dur. on 110 lobe sep.
Stock 89 351w block with stock crank 10/10 eagle rods and lunati pistons with plasma molly rings.
Vic jr heads ( Done by Cylinder head Dynamics )
Vic jr intake
My own custom built carb that flows 895cfm.
All MSD ign.
comp is 10.9.1.
This combo runs on pump gas and made 400 hp to the rear tires and 476 ft pounds of torque on the motor allone!!!
Here is another thought for you guys! Why is it nos motors live longer than blower motors???
Asnwere; Because when the bottle is off the motor doesn't know it is there!! I bet you never thought of it that way. The downfall of course to this is the fact that with a blower car you always have that power when you want it and the bottle never goes empty
This combo is very streatable and can be built for around 5g. Not bad considering thats a 500hp motor at the flywheel and with the juice well thats another story
 
Posted by Dukester (Member # 605) on :
 
Well, there are several factors that you haven't added yet. Is this going to be a daily driver or a weekend toy?? I have a great shortblock that may interest you if you don't have a long commute or if it's just going to be a toy.

2k miles

'69 351W .... .030 over pistons w/.150 domes, shot-peened rods, micro-polished crank, racer brown .562 solid lift cam, Canton racing 8qt pan

Motor went 12.20 w/ Dart sr. heads and torker manifold in '66 stang w/ c4 and 3.73 gears weight @3472lbs

Make offer....if using in a newer stang, you will have to get a different oil pan and timing cover.
 

Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
David-

Yeah, Ricky's shit got messed up. I guess somebody put an ax through his new hood, wing, and windshield. Nice huh? Suposedly he messed around with some girl...blew her off, and the older brother got mad.... [BS flag] well, maybe it's true, that's what he says happened..but it wouldn't suprise me if he was just revving at the wrong person and talking shit..he tends to do that!!! But that's why we love Ricky, right?

Jack [Bling Bling]
 

Posted by Marshall Mathers (Member # 24) on :
 
Hey Coug, you've got alot of interesting info in there about your setup... It sounds alot like what I've got going into my car (95 LT1 Camaro).... The stock block is very strong even when it's a 2 bolt (Dave Diluca runs a stock block and he's run 9.11@152 about 30 times with a 400 shot!!!!)...

So to that end even though it's fuel injected here's what I've got ready to assemble at the machine shop.

355 cube LT1 (.030 over)
6" eagle H-beams (stock is 5.7")
Stock polished steel crank
SRP Flat tops (11.8:1 compression) Reverse cooled block allows high compression with no detonation.
Stage II Ported LT1 heads (opened up to about 195cc's) 2.00 int, 1.56 exh stainless valves, undercut stems, three angle valve job, blah blah blah
Fully ported intake
58mm throttle body (basically equivalent to a 1000cfm dominator)
CC Xtreme 236/242 @.050 .555/.576 112lsa (keep in mind it's computer controlled and this is about the biggest I can go without solid roller)
Hooker longtubes
4" Mufflex catback with flowmaster race muffler.

Basically I'm looking at at least 400RWHP and somewhere in the 420RWTQ range. This is off of real world results with other similarly prepped motors (actually with smaller cams than mine)... I plan on spraying it once the DFI tuning issues are sorted out on motor alone..... I want to get it running 100% before putting a plate on it... But 600RWHP is my short/long term goal... And I'd like to see 700RWTQ.... Whaddaya think???
 

Posted by THE COUG (Member # 743) on :
 
Marshal mathers sounds like you got a good handle on it
You also know some of the same people I do like Chris Chow
Look me up when you get back in the states!
 
Posted by Marshall Mathers (Member # 24) on :
 
Shiet, I'm back now... I live in VA.... Too bad it's in the states just the WRONG state!!! I hate it here. My engine blew up. The people here are fags. Streetracing is a bunch of gay radial racers talking about how bad they are and then they show up on some Pep Boys futura radials!!!!

Yeah Chow's my dawg. He installed the DFI on my car (it's the DFI from his former red Z) I can't wait to see his twin turbo V8 buick.
 

Posted by LiftedAssDodge (Member # 865) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Mathers:
Hey Coug, you've got alot of interesting info in there about your setup... It sounds alot like what I've got going into my car (95 LT1 Camaro).... The stock block is very strong even when it's a 2 bolt (Dave Diluca runs a stock block and he's run 9.11@152 about 30 times with a 400 shot!!!!)...

So to that end even though it's fuel injected here's what I've got ready to assemble at the machine shop.

355 cube LT1 (.030 over)
6" eagle H-beams (stock is 5.7")
Stock polished steel crank
SRP Flat tops (11.8:1 compression) Reverse cooled block allows high compression with no detonation.
Stage II Ported LT1 heads (opened up to about 195cc's) 2.00 int, 1.56 exh stainless valves, undercut stems, three angle valve job, blah blah blah
Fully ported intake
58mm throttle body (basically equivalent to a 1000cfm dominator)
CC Xtreme 236/242 @.050 .555/.576 112lsa (keep in mind it's computer controlled and this is about the biggest I can go without solid roller)
Hooker longtubes
4" Mufflex catback with flowmaster race muffler.

Basically I'm looking at at least 400RWHP and somewhere in the 420RWTQ range. This is off of real world results with other similarly prepped motors (actually with smaller cams than mine)... I plan on spraying it once the DFI tuning issues are sorted out on motor alone..... I want to get it running 100% before putting a plate on it... But 600RWHP is my short/long term goal... And I'd like to see 700RWTQ.... Whaddaya think???

now that sounds like a nasty combo for that maro, id love to hear how much you spent on that, im lookin at maybe gettin into a maro like that, who knows,
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
what do you guys think of this possible combo: 351W block, TRW forged pistons (.030) clevite 77 rod, main and cam bearings, wolverine blue racer 292/512 cam and lifters, cloyes double roller timing chain, and high volume oil pump with new pump drive, reground crank, bored and honed block, arp bolts, GT40 upper and lower intake, GT40 heads, Mac longtubes, offroad H-pipe, 24lbs injectors, 70mm throttle body, 77mm mass air, 2 chamber flowmasters, and MSD distributer. I think thats all.
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
oh shit, i forgoy the compression. 10:1
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
ok david-

Where the hell did you pull those #'s from? I know not from your head....sounds healthy though. How much would all of this cost? This combo would run hard...but not scream like you are wanting it to. Don't get me wrong...it would be quick, but I'm thinking like 12.20's...Maybe. And the injectors might need to be 30#'s but that all comes in time.

Jack
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
I got the numbers from a website. The individual parts I pulled out from my ass. 12.20's sounds good for a car that I would be driving to school and back. Oh yeah, I've decided to get nitrous instead of a blower. 100-150 shot probably I'll get that after I get the motor and some form of a suspension and drivetrain.
 
Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cobraman_1994:
what do you guys think of this possible combo: 351W block, TRW forged pistons (.030) clevite 77 rod, main and cam bearings, wolverine blue racer 292/512 cam and lifters, cloyes double roller timing chain, and high volume oil pump with new pump drive, reground crank, bored and honed block, arp bolts, GT40 upper and lower intake, GT40 heads, Mac longtubes, offroad H-pipe, 24lbs injectors, 70mm throttle body, 77mm mass air, 2 chamber flowmasters, and MSD distributer. I think thats all.


Put this motor in a truck, not a 'stang. Its basicly a lightning motor with a cam. It won't even make 300 RWHP. If you do your homework and choose a GOOD heads/intake/cam *combo*, it will make more power than this GT40 headed 351 you listed.
 

Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
That cam wants to run to 7500 and that intake wants to run to 5400. My $0.02 (re: GT-40 on a 351).

Look at the gen 1 lightning for a 351 combo to avoid. Decent shortblock, w/ GT-40 iron heads and GT-40 intake. Something like 25x fly-wheel HP.

If I built up a 351 and it didn't make at least 351 fwhp I'd want to end myself!

edit: doh! beat me too it.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: shade-tree ]


 
Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
THE COUG- Good points. The reason 'most' 392's make so much "torque" (low RPM HP) is because people stick on restrictive heads and intakesfor 400 cubes. Much like many Performer RPM, TFS TW and even worse... GT40 headed 351's. Some TFS-R's or better yet blue thunder heads on a 392/408 won't make a Ford feel like a tractor


Random_351_Guy-"Wow my Performer RPM headed 351 makes so much 'torque'!!!"

The_Truth-"Nice, you've choked that 351W up top with some dinky heads. Enjoy your 'torque' when going up hill and pulling a trailor as you'll never be below 4,000RPM durring a race!"


I like this quote by a wise man..... "Put 302 parts on a 351w if you want 302 horsepower from a 351w"


-Sawson
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
you guys know more about this then I do, so what combo would you guys suggest?
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
*ahem*

junkyard 351W rebuilt (shortblock) w/1 yr 12,000 mile warranty
$750

850 CFM double-pumper Holley (what gas mileage?)

ported windsor SR. heads (you may want to ship these to a reputable shop)

Victor style intake

comp cam 282 solid roller to start

I would expect 380-400 rwhp from this combo.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: shade-tree ]


 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
i want to keep it fuel injected though.
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
same heads, I'd go for a Holley systemax II intake then, and expect to lose about 20 rwhp.
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
Oh, and I probably should say this, the heads and intake will get ported and polished at some point. nothing too extreme though..... aw fuck it, ported and polished to an unreasonable amount. how much does that give?
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
already factored in my man [Bling Bling]

If you want more out of a NA 351 junkyard shortblock, (more than 400rwhp out of a carbed setup) you're going to have to step into the shortblock and start thinking about 13:1 compression and all the tricks that the racers do when they set up a shortblock, junkyard parts and stock pistons need not apply [Worship]
 

Posted by 88gt (Member # 579) on :
 
just curious.....are you putting this engine in your 94 cobra?
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
yes
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
This wont be N/A for very long. hehehehe
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
13:1 compression bro? Of course that's good...but this is a daily driver...and we can't exactly go to the airport to fill up around here. David, they are all making very good suggestions...but seriously that first combo is not the winner you are looking for. Come to my house and I'll draw out a good combo for your ride...oh and the nitrous thing...that's my specialty for designs...talk to me.

Jack
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
what ttime do you want me to stop by?
 
Posted by T-TopTerror (Member # 480) on :
 
David,
when you figure out a combo that you think you're going to keep then come talk to me. I'm curious what these people are going to talk you into. Sound as if your ready to actually go through with this so if I can re-suggest buy a nicely pre-assembled short-block and go with a TrickFlow combo. The only other head I would buy is AFR.
Hey do you still want that Pro-M meter? Call me....
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
Trickflow heads (unported) are great on a 302. Not so great on a 351.
 
Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
Hey Erik, i lost your number9 along with everyone else's) when i went snowboarding. so could you post it again?
 
Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 
I would like to show all of you except the COUG the motor dyno sheets from a local cat around here and his 357 with AFR 205s on it.

The motor makes 560hp on pump gas with 10.5 to one and a non solid roller cam.

That is a running mofo with an OUT OF THE BOX AFR and and OFF the SHELF cam.

Port matched intake and 2 inch primary headers.

Rebello built and dynoed the motor
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
would you fill me in on the specifics of this motor please
 
Posted by the50ho (Member # 73) on :
 
OK....TALK SHIT YOU GUYS BUT THIS WOULD BE HEALTHY...

X-CAM
PERFORMER RPM HEADS AND INTAKE

Readily accesable parts with a strongly matched combo (if you don't believe me check the eldebrock site). I know it's a good 302 pacakge...but he is looking for a streetable 351, that at least looks somehwat smogable. Somewhat I said....

jack
 

Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by the50ho:
OK....TALK SHIT YOU GUYS BUT THIS WOULD BE HEALTHY...

X-CAM
PERFORMER RPM HEADS AND INTAKE

Sounds like a solid 285 RWHP combo, weather its on a 302 or 351. JMHO.
 

Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
This is for everyone that is curious about why i am building a 351. I decided on the 351 because it is a very strong motor and when built correctly, is damn near indestructable. So I can sustain a decent amount of boost with out worring about anythig on the internals. Also, if I decide to get wild with this motor later down the road (396... ). I know i could spend the same on a 302 and make it wild. But, with a 351, the options for insane horsepower in the later future are damn near endless. Just thought i would clear things up for all that was confused.
 
Posted by Marshall Mathers (Member # 24) on :
 
quote:
now that sounds like a nasty combo for that maro, id love to hear how much you spent on that, im lookin at maybe gettin into a maro like that, who knows

Yeah it's a pretty nasty combo for a non stroker motor... It'll make damn near the torque and horsepower like a 383 without the extra $$$ of a stroker crank... Umm I can run down the costs of it a little bit to include machine shop work... It's looking like damn near 5K not including the exhaust and stuff.....

Here's a rundown of the major stuff
SRP forged pistons and JE rings-$500
Eagle H-beam rods-$450
Top end package from IRS that included stage II heads/manifold, custom ground cam, ARP head bolts, top end gasket set $2900
Used LT1 block-$250
Machine work to block-Hot tanking, competition bore and hone with torque plates, squaring, decking block, new freeze plugs, cam bearings... $260
Balancing/blueprinting-$175
File fitting rings-$80
Complete assembly of long block to include degreeing cam, checking deck height, piston to valve clearance, pushrod length, etc... $640

Extra stuff I bought just because more power and RPM capability of the new motor warranted it:
Headers-360
4" Mufflex-525
Comp Cams R series lifters-200


There might be some odds and ends I forgot but this comes to a grand total of $5255 without the extras above.... After all is said and done I'm looking at close to 6500-7000 to include all the odds and ends I'll need....
 

Posted by Marshall Mathers (Member # 24) on :
 
quote:
I like this quote by a wise man..... "Put 302 parts on a 351w if you want 302 horsepower from a 351w

Heh Heh Heh... No comment...
LMFAO!!!!

Another wiseman once said "A pat on the back is only 1 foot from a kick in the ass"

quote:
This is for everyone that is curious about why i am building a 351. I decided on the 351 because it is a very strong motor and when built correctly, is damn near indestructable. So I can sustain a decent amount of boost with out worring about anythig on the internals. Also, if I decide to get wild with this motor later down the road

The only question I have about this is why not just go with one of the very popular crate motors made by every ford dealer and their grandmother like DSS and many others.. You can get an indestructible 347 that will handle all the boost you can throw at it... If you want to talk about the problems of going 351 you need only to look as far as F8LPony on Norcal-LS1 (he posts on here every so often also).... GOod friend of mine with a 351 in his blown 88 GT.... Thing still doesn't run due to tuning issues that have plagued him for years!!!! Sawson is helping him but swapping to a 351 is by no means just drop and go. I think you'd have an easier time with a 302 stroked to 331 or 347..... I mean are you REALLY going to go beyond the power levels that a built 347 can produce? Like say greater than 1000hp?????
 

Posted by THE COUG (Member # 743) on :
 
Starkey why not show me I could just call up Ricky and ask him about it if I gave a shit but why say " I would like to show everyone but the coug about this motor " What gives man???
 
Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 
LOL

Because I was sure you already knew about it man.

LOL

Not to mention that Im sure your motor stomps it.

Thats what give my man.

Take care John.
 

Posted by yellow67stang (Member # 903) on :
 
If you want real power why don't you ask a professional what you should do instead of asking a bunch of people's opinion's of what you should or should not do! I can refer you to a couple of machine shops that are up to the task. Or, you can buy a crate motor from many companies that build good 351w based motors. If you want to go the "cheap"(its never really cheap!) way than find a good early 351w block and put a big cam in it a set of Dart SR heads and a decent amount of compression and a good transmission and convertor with a brake or a stout 5-speed and go racing! And get some 3.73's or 4.10's and that should make for some fun! I have a really nice set of Ross pistons for a 408 that I can let go for a really good price if you want to start building a killer 351w(408) engine!

Eric
 





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