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Author
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Topic: name the best EFI INTAKE out for blowers....
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Slart
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Member # 5980
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posted
 
 
> are you f**king serious
Yes, I am serious.
> 413 dart block, afr 225's, big cam, f1r blower, and you suggest a edlebrock performer, wtf is wrong with you man, dont give advice if u have no clue what your taking about
The topic says "Topic: name the best EFI INTAKE out for blowers....", not "what is the best intake for high RPM stroker motors". These are not the same thing.
I admit I didnt see the post where he squeezed his specs into 33 bytes and if I had I wouldnt have bothered replying.
> not to be harsh but that is just retarded
No, it's just counter to the propaganda usually posted by people on the forums.
However, I do know what I'm talking about, and my '89 LX will be at ford vs chevy on 91 octane saturday if you care to see for yourself. Oh, it'll be running an edelbrock performer RPM ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 15 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Aug 2005
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92stangLX
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Member # 3252
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quote:
Originally posted by Apexmotorsports:
We actually are building up my car right now, a 88 Saleen, with a 331, AFR 205s w/ Nitrous Exhaust Port, and Vortech SQ1 15lb kit and will be experimenting which intake makes the most power for our application. So far we have decided to try the following intakes.
#1-Saleen/ Vortech w/ Extrude Honed lower intake.
(This is what I currently have on the car)
#2-Trick Flow Boxed intakes
#3-Trick Flow Street, Track, & R Intakes.
#4-Professional Industies Typhoon
http://www.professional-products.com/sbfordv8.htm
Mike Mak
Apex Motorsports
ApexMotorsports.com
2555 Lafayette Blvd. Suite #122
Santa Clara, CA 95054
Phone: 408/588-0075 Fax: 408/588-0089
Griggs Racing, Maximum Motorsports, Evolution Motosports, SCT, Racelogic, H&R, Ford racing, Kenne Bell, MAC, Bassani, Vortech, Powerdyne, AMSoil, Koni, Hawk, AFR, Tokico, Baer Racing, Magnaflow, Flowmaster, Diablosport
Are you going to post dyno #'s for each one of these? That would be fucking cool I have been waiting for one of the mags to do an intake shoot out but have not seen one yet.
You guys need to post an article on your web site about the build up along w/ dyno numbers for each intake combo.
![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
EDIT: and while you are at it throw in the Sysmax and Edelbrock intakes too ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ September 07, 2005, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: 92stangLX ]
Posts: 5302 | From: San Francisco | Registered: Sep 2003
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Slart
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Member # 5980
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posted
I dont mean to start another argument, but it sure looks a lot like those professional-products intakes are ripoffs of edelbrock parts.
Are these chromed edelbrock pieces, or did somebody get away with copying their design wholesale?
Posts: 15 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Aug 2005
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Slart:
I dont mean to start another argument, but it sure looks a lot like those professional-products intakes are ripoffs of edelbrock parts.
Are these chromed edelbrock pieces, or did somebody get away with copying their design wholesale?
Read this.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2003/12/efiintake/index.shtml
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'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
a intake comparison on 5.0 blown aplications has already been done look on Anderson Ford Motorsports web site under magazine articles. It is very interesting. Shows why my little street heat intake works so well
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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66mstgfsbk
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Member # 5197
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posted
id try this one you get the advantage of a carb manifold and the ability to adjust it using software.
if smogs not an issue.. and you wont need a larger hood
Posts: 133 | From: san jose | Registered: Jan 2005
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Slart
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Member # 5980
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posted
Hey folks,
I'm bored at work so think I'll stir up some shit. :-)
The other day I made a post that got me flamed. that's okay, the post was flame bait. I intentionally said something to see if anybody would bite.
Because I missed the fact that we're talking about a 400" motor I was wrong, but now that tempers have cooled I thought I'd justify my position.
One of the misconceptions that people have is that when you run boost you need a bigger intake. This is common sense so nobody really thinks twice about it. But however, it is not correct.
The intake requirements are based on the engine displacement and RPM, and they do not change when you put a blower on.
There are practical reasons to choose a different intake for a blown app (IE: Maybe on a centrifugally blown car that makes a lot of top end, you might want a lower RPM intake to widen the powerband. Or, on a turbocharged car that makes a lot of midrange, you might want to extend the top end with a high RPM manifiold). But from an engine airflow perspective, the blower has no effect.
Let me explain why this is the case.
Imagine for a moment that you are turning your motor over by hand with the ignition off, and you are measuring the air that it moves. Ignore for now all the fancy dynamics that change the way it pumps as you run it at different speeds like cam overlap.
If you have a 5.0L engine, and you turn it two full revolutions (4 strokes), you will have moved 5.0L of air past the throttle body and out the tailpipe.
To further simplify, lets pretend that we have just one cylinder of a 5.0 (~625 CCs). If you analyze what's going on in that cylinder, the piston starts at TDC on the intake stroke, and during the intake stroke the piston moves down 3", and it pulls in 625CCs of air to fill the void (The piston is 4.000" wide, and it moves down 3 inches. If you calculate the area of that cylinder, it's 625 CCs, which is why we say that piston has 625 CCs of displacement, and 8 of those suckers has 5000 CCs (5.0L) of displacement).
Lets stop here to make a point that the engine pumps a volume of 625 CCs per 4 strokes, per cylinder. Note, the usage of the word "volume" here is important.
Now lets add boost to the equasion. For purposes of illustration, we add a source of 15 PSI cool air to the throttle body. Normally this would be a blower, but since we're turning it over by hand you will have to envision that it's some other 15 PSI air source, like an air compressor.
With 15 PSI the air density has doubled vs the previous test (200kPa rather than 100kPa). So when you turn the engine two rotations, 1250 CCs moves through the engine instead of 625 CCs (or 10.0L instead of 5.0L if you are still imaging an 8 cylinder).
Yet, inside the engine, the piston didnt change how much volume it displaced. It still displaced a volume equal to the shame of a 4" diameter cylinder that's 3" deep. But the total mass of air that passes through the engine changed. The volume of air moved inside the engine is still 625CCs, but the mass of air was twice that (equivelent to 1250 CCs at 100kPa).
So here's the point: Boost does not change volumetric flow. It changes mass flow.
People tend to think of a blower as "forcing" the air in the motor. Pushing harder. While technically this is true, it is misleading and leads to bad conclusions. Really, the way you should think of a blower is making more air go in by packing it more densely.
Now, on to example 2:
Imagine you have two large plexiglass boxes. One has an absolute vacuum. The other has atmospheric pressure in it. You connect these two boxes with a small tube and record how much air moves across them. Ignore for now that as air passes through the pressure increases in one box and decreases in the other. Instead, lets pretend they're REALLY big boxes, so the pressure differential stays virtually constant.
Once you've recorded how much air moves through that tube, take and replace the box that had atmosheric pressure in it (100kPa) with one tha thas 15 PSI in it (200 kPa) and measure again.
The mass of air that moves through the tube is twice as high in the second test (because the pressure differential is twice as high: In the first test there was 100kPa difference between the boxes, in the 2nd test there was 200 kPa difference).
This is really the crux of my point: When the air is more dense, more fits in the same size tube. So why do people think you need a bigger intake when you run boost?
An intake that works well on a NA car will also work well when you put a blower on it.
The argument I got into the other day I said that a blown car, a performer intake is a good choice. it is for a 300" motor (and maybe for a 350" motor if it's ported). In fact, I use a performer RPM on my car. It is a good choice whether you're running NA or putting 30 PSI, because the volume of air doesnt change.
However, to set the record straight, I am not suggesting that a 413" motor would be well suited to a performer RPM. The ports do not have enough cross sectional area to support the air volume required to feed a 413" motor above 4500. But it's not a good choice because of the CI & RPM, not due to the boost.
Feel free to disagree, but please make sure you read my post and understand it before just saying "nuh-uh!"
Steve Sadler
[ September 09, 2005, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Slart ]
Posts: 15 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Aug 2005
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
hmmm running N/A or 30 PSI the volume of air doesn't change LOL so why run a blower if it doesn't increase the volume of air just so it looks pretty ![[Wink]](wink.gif) better re think that one.
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
hmmm running N/A or 30 PSI the volume of air doesn't change LOL so why run a blower if it doesn't increase the volume of air just so it looks pretty better re think that one.
Because a given volume of air is simply a measurement of a 3 dimensional space. 1 cubic meter (or foot if you prefer) of "air" can have widely different total mass if it is at 10* C or 300* C. And the higher the humidity or vapor pressure, the less usable oxygen.
Let's see, PV=nRT?
The lower the temp and drier the air, the more mass it will have in a given volume. When superchargers and turbo's are rated at a given CFM (Cubic feet per minute) it is a reference that's based on a standard temperature and pressure.
Check this out-->
http://www.7stones.com/Homepage/Publisher/Thermo1.html
[ September 09, 2005, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: FasterDamnit ]
--------------------
'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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2stangs69-91
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Member # 1951
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posted
it dosent matter if the air is compressed? with a blower you are forcing more air through the same place. On the mildly modified 5.0's the intake's with the bigger plemums make more HP becuase you have more compressed air in there for more volume to fill the cyl when the valves open. It is dyno proven many times. Why do you think the sysem max and trick flow manifolds are so good. Both are among the bigger in volume size.
[ September 09, 2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
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69 Mustang on hold
1991 LX hatch getting a make over
1994 F150 4X4 351
2006 Yamaha V-max 1200 Modded
Posts: 3711 | From: Redding | Registered: Oct 2002
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