|
Author
|
Topic: Dyno Time! Fun Fun Fun.
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
 
 
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
AaronC 340 rwhp (306, AFR165's, ported RPM intake, custom cam)[/QB]
Just for clarification, my car had the performer intake and it just had casting flash smoothed out. Runner size was un altered. The second setup had the Ported lower (matched to head opening) with stock RPM upper.
Just want all the trees in my forrest to match up correctly ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
Almost forgot. Good #'s Jim. Toss on the longtubes and retard the cam and watch power start to go up. The little things add up fast ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ January 22, 2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: AaronC ]
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
|
posted
Thank's Aaron. I am going to try and match the output of your first combo (but not its longevity ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) .) Got the torque, need to bring up the top end a bit. What size throttle body di dyou have? I am thinking my 65 is a possible restriction above 5500. Hence the change in A/F up there. Could be wrong...
JL
![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
--------------------
'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
Thank's Aaron. I am going to try and match the output of your first combo (but not its longevity .) Got the torque, need to bring up the top end a bit. What size throttle body di dyou have? I am thinking my 65 is a possible restriction above 5500. Hence the change in A/F up there. Could be wrong...
JL
Longevity was my fault. Leaky water pump hose blew the headgaskets and the second was P/V clearance. Upon teardown the shortblock was flawless. 3rd time will be the charm, haha I have a 70mm TB. I'll post my dyno graph so you can see the curve and A/F ratio. Yours definitely went rich up top and there's power hiding. Mine was rich in the middle. I wish you the best of luck in attaining your goals, and hope you surpass them
forgot:
http://www.californiafords.com/images/dyno/aaron_mike/
[ January 22, 2003, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: AaronC ]
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
|
posted
Now that is a FLAT torque curve. Visual evidence of velocity at lower rpms. Wonder if the long tubs will help that.
JL
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
Jim - I hope you're getting 1 3/4" long tubes..
Aaron- I haven't been on the corral since Ed called Jim and I morons. Is it still going? If you liked that, you should have seen him almost 2 years ago. I really pissed him off then... but then again he was a holley and brodix head salesmen at the time so he just made ripping on him and his holley and brodix heads so easy. Kind of a shame, I use to help out the "little" guys a lot when I posted there (3000+ posts?). You know, all the spark plug, TPS, MAF, ect posts that championship racers like Ed are too good to help with out getting a credit card number first
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
Wonder if the long tubes will help that.
JL
It should ![[dance]](graemlins/dance.gif)
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
AaronC
¯
Member # 86
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Jim - I hope you're getting 1 3/4" long tubes..
Aaron- I haven't been on the corral since Ed called Jim and I morons. Is it still going? If you liked that, you should have seen him almost 2 years ago. I really pissed him off then... but then again he was a holley and brodix head salesmen at the time so he just made ripping on him and his holley and brodix heads so easy. Kind of a shame, I use to help out the "little" guys a lot when I posted there (3000+ posts?). You know, all the spark plug, TPS, MAF, ect posts that championship racers like Ed are too good to help with out getting a credit card number first
LOL, I got some humor out of it. I haven't posted much lately. I think it died out. I'm not gonna post much tech anymore, it justs starts and ends in too many debates and fights, etc. Bottom line, I hope local cars keep improving and we start seeing more eye popping #'s at the track and on the dyno.
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
| :
|
|
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
Bottom line, I hope local cars keep improving and we start seeing more eye popping #'s at the track and on the dyno.
Hear! Hear!
--------------------
'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
Yeah, thats why I stopped posting on the corral. It got to be too trendy and orginal ideas were lost. I'd rather help the locals go fast than some guy in Alabama. I'd like to think that this tech forum and drag racing forum has helped bring the local 5.O guys together and help eachother go faster in the past year or two. As for the arguements... I only harrass people that I want to see do good. If I didn't care for them, I'd keep my mouth shut and let them bite the dust.
Did you see my latest original idea? Universal CARB stamping kit: Its garunteed to make any automotive part CARB approved:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=35121 I have a feeling this idea will take off.
Oh yeah, to correct my last post.....I think I was the stupid one and Jim was just lucky according to Ed ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I guess Jon's identical combo but with better flowing heads and 25 more rwhp was also dumb luck ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
|
posted
You're finally starting to see the light, Sawson. Don't make waves and follow the herd. Baaaa. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Jim - I hope you're getting 1 3/4" long tubes..
Aaron- I haven't been on the corral since Ed called Jim and I morons. Is it still going? If you liked that, you should have seen him almost 2 years ago. I really pissed him off then... but then again he was a holley and brodix head salesmen at the time so he just made ripping on him and his holley and brodix heads so easy. Kind of a shame, I use to help out the "little" guys a lot when I posted there (3000+ posts?). You know, all the spark plug, TPS, MAF, ect posts that championship racers like Ed are too good to help with out getting a credit card number first
I thought that thread on the Corral was hilarious! Sorry Sawson, sometimes you bring it on yourself. Internet Cyber combos....Haha!
BTW, I think that C.A.R.B. stamping idea is one of your best.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
So you guys think Ed got the upper hand on me in that post?????????????? It looked like he was getting slaped around a bit so he started swinging below the belt.
I'm not too too proud of the "Sawson universal CARB aproved kit".... my favorite idea is that torque doesn't matter; its all HP....followed closely by my "cubic inches doesn't matter (much) because its all about air flow" theory
Others on on my "original" ideas list....
-Aluminum pullies don't matter: A few ounces difference bolted at the end of a heavy mo fo crank won't make a difference.
-TPS 0.99834543543543 volt settings are BS.
-synthetic oil only adds emotional support and security to your engine...along with a few leaks
-heads with similar chamber sizes with similar size ports with similar size valves with similar flow numbers will make similar horse power numbers regardless of what brand is on the box they came in
-AFR head + custom cam owners solicit online message boards more than Mormon's and Jahova Witnesses solicit peoples homes.
-You can never have too "big" of a fuel system.
-Scott Peterson's B camed, stock shiftered, stock T5, FMS "heavy Duty $150 clutch, 200 cfm GT40X head, Cobra Computer mid 12's@110+MPH combo should teach us all something about what's really important and what's not. May that car/combo RIP.
-AOD mustangs run weak because no one puts in a 3500-4000 RPM stall converter in them.
-A penny makes a sweet bitch'n tool to adjust the idle stop screw on Ford throttle bodies.
-draining your washer fluid to save ~6 lbs off the nose of your car.
-There is an honest 10 mph and 1.0 second difference between what street racers "think" they run and what they'll actually run at the track.
-15,000+ miles of running 10-30W motor oil instead of AFT/power steering fluid and she'll still turn fine
-race gas is the poor mans intercooler
-A 12.2 second car and a 12.4 second car will be WAY too close to call in a race thanks to reaction time. 0.2 seconds/ 20 HP is too often given up before your car moves an inch.
On my "to-do" list.... figure out/prove that 1.5X 60 foots and power shifting are key to great ET (for obvious reasons), but ALSO GREAT MPH thanks to built up momentum (energy) in the flywheel when you dump it at 5500 RPM and the momentum (energy) that is released to the input shaft/driveline/tires when you power shift.... the RPM's jump up while power shifting, the flywheel builds up extra momentum (energy) and this energy gets released to the tires when the clutch grabs and brings the RPM's down to where they're suppose to be. These two things are Bob Cosby's mo jo.
Overall, I'm pretty proud of the local 5.O's we have running down the strip these days. I know two years ago I use feel ashamed when I'd go online and read the magazines... then go to Sac Raceway and see one weak 5.O combo after another.
[ January 22, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
Yeah, your other ideas pretty much suck.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
They're all proven by physics/mathmatics or by several cases of experimentation/observation though
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
Don't think so.
Torque does matter. I proved that! My car feels SO much slower now. Even though I gained 1000 usable rpm!
& displacement increases velocity on any head you use. Why do you think torque goes up? Which throws out your theory on similar flowing heads.
Oh, & race gas isn't cheap. Alcohol injection is a poor mans intercooler!
I'm not even going to touch the synthetic oil thing.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
If you want me to back up any claim I've made with local examples or math, let me know. I don't speak out of my arse or just pass along other peoples thoughts as my own.
All I have to say about the HP/Torque issue is that almost no one truely knows what torque or HP is, BUT they think they do. At BEST they'll copy and paste a definition of it from the internet, but thats about as good as it gets. Don't feel bad, it took me about a year and half of engineering physics classes for the light to click on in my head.
I've never seen a proven local case study of alcohal injection on a 5.O so that theory is out the door. Even if I see one or two setups that work.... I've learned long ago that one or two combos doesn't make something "proven". Lets not forget that race gas will give more HP than alcohal injection can ever dream of giving.
Let me know when your motor dies. I want your bearings since they'll be in mint condition thanks to synthetic oil. I could do with out your busted piston/rod/block though
Looks to me that you're just trying to argue for the sake of arguement?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
I really don't care what the definitions of HP & torque are. If what they measure on a dynometer was called dingleberries instead of torque, it's still measurable. & HP is still of function of that measured output. Therefore torque DOES matter.
Look at AaronC's before & after dyno's. He gained about 3HP peak & nearly 30TQ. Was his car faster after the tune? More then .03 in the 1/4? Probably. Why? Because AVG HP went up....why? Because Torque went through the roof.
Oh, I forgot about that..... If you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist. Damn Internet Cyber Ideal Combos!
Nah, we're not arguing.... We're having a intelectual conversation over the internet. Notice I spring this on you just when you go back to school? Haha! Go do some homework!
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
91PONY
Mrs. Valve Events
Member # 206
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
If what they measure on a dynometer was called dingleberries instead of torque, it's still measurable.
LMAO! 
--------------------
Heather '91 GT
Posts: 1477 | From: Citrus Heights, CA | Registered: Mar 2001
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
Actually I saw Aaron's car dyno so I saw all his pulls. I knew he'd be the highest RWHP NA 302 around and wanted to be there when history was made How do you think these pictures got here:
http://www.californiafords.com/images/dyno/aaron_mike/
and this video:
http://www.californiafords.com/mpg/06_00_02/aaron_dyno.mpg
Plus, how do you think Mike's mystery stuttering problem and the inability for his car to idle with the C&L MAF was solved? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't related to the valve train what so ever
It looks like you have a problem differentiating torque and HP. I'll give you a hint, as soon as you mention torque and a certain RPM, what you really just said is HP in a much more complicated and unclear way
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
You flip-flop sides to suit your arguments...
I never said that Aaron's dyno tune wasn't neccessary. What I DID say was this: Based on your 'theory' of torque doesn't matter, Aaron gained very little power from his dyno tune. When in fact he gain a TON of average power.....namely TORQUE.
You say torque doesn't matter....yet you also say HP is torque at RPM. So, I'm drawing the conclusion that you believe HP doesn't matter. What DOES matter Sawson???
Although, I see why you keep saying Torque doesn't matter. If you actaully admitted that it does, it throws out your 'similar heads, with simillar cc's & similar flow #'s' theory. Namely, your 'velocity doesn't matter' theory. If velocity doesn't matter, why have a long-runner intake? The entire theory of runner length is based on the air-charge velocity.
BTW, Race gas does NOTHING if all you do is fill the tank. In order to gain power from high octane fuel you must increase the timing, or add boost....or both. Throw race gas in my car as it sits right now & it'll lose power. The higher the octane, the slower the burn rate. At the very least, you should increase timing to take advantage of the slow burn rate. As for it being a poor-mans intercooler....higher octane fuel does NOT cool the intake charge. It actually burns hotter. Just another band-aid for a poor tune. Much like the S-trim band-aid for a poor H/C/I setup.
Give this some thought:
I'll show you just one of the properies of synthetic oil that YOUR car would've benefited from. Low ash content. Ash is a measure of residue when the oil burns. Amsoil has been tested & proven to have lower ash content then any other oil on the market....FAR less then conventional oil.
You burn what.....1qt of oil every 500miles? Do you realize how fast carbon is building up on your pistons & valves? I've pulled heads on a motor that burned 1qt every 1000miles. The pistons had 1/8 inch domes of carbon on them. There was no sign of any valve reliefs. & the valves.....what a sight. What's happening on your motor is the compression is going through the roof, but the carbon is also getting nice & hot during combustion & creating hot-spots in the cylinders. Why do you think you can't run as much timing anymore? You're also slowly chocking off the air-flow due to the buildup on the valves.....not to mention the buildup on the chambers of the heads, which shrouds the valves, impeading air-flow.
I wonder how your valveguides would be now if you would've used a superior lubricant like Amsoil......
But your right, synthetics is a waste of $$$.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
Stimson
_
Member # 51
|
posted
Woah!!!! I just read this for the first time now I don't know how I missed it
I watched Aaron's car get tuned on the dyno with my own eyes... there was no "base line" dyno pull ever made, so I don't know what you're basing your assumptions on On this whole torque thing, the irony is... if you grasped the concept of torque and HP, you'd see we're really talking about the same thing 8-)
Increasing timing with race gas is always implied. Everyone knows thats why you add race gas.
As for your oil... cheap stuff works for me, expensive stuff works for you... lets be friends
ps- I saw that teal 93 cobra with the S trim you did the cam on. Its a very clean cobra! The owner is a cool guy and he has spent A LOT of time modifying that '93! I thought Bill @ Apex's teal '93 was highly modified for a fox body cobra... but I hadn't seen anything yet Anyways, I took a bunch of pictures of it and posted it on the norcal-ls1 dyno day post if you haven't seen them already.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
Torque is a better indicator of cylinder pressure below 5252RPM. Look at JUST the HP curve & tell me at what RPM the motor is making the most cylinder pressure. Can you do it???
Here's Aarons dyno sheet. Look at the red vs. blue curves....then you'll know what I was talking about.
So, you met Mark. Nice guy. That's the new 347 he just had built. Sportsman block, high compression pistons , boost, & alcohol. I crunched the #'s on it....10.2 to 1 compression! I tried to talk him out of it....I would've liked to see 8.5 to 1 on that car. He tells me he's already got detonation issues. I've talked him into NOT hitting it at all until he can get that thing on the dyno for some tuning. One tune for pump gas & one with race gas. My guess is he'll gain ~60-70RWHP from the highest unleaded race gas (104 I think?) & full timing advance.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
jayl
¯
Member # 185
|
posted
if that guy needs some 104 , we got plenty at a good price
--------------------
Facebook.com/TeamTemporary
8.5's TTFBitch!
Posts: 3821 | From: Hayward | Registered: Mar 2001
| :
|
|
93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by jayl:
if that guy needs some 104 , we got plenty at a good price
I'll remember that!
Mark was actually at MustangRanch for my Dyno. The older guy with his wife & kid.
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
| :
|
|
jayl
¯
Member # 185
|
posted
oh ok i remember now, his kid was funny.....
--------------------
Facebook.com/TeamTemporary
8.5's TTFBitch!
Posts: 3821 | From: Hayward | Registered: Mar 2001
| :
|
|
Email this post to someone!
Printer friendly view of this Ford topic
