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Topic: 1 question
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
 
 
does anyone use synthetic oil? If not, why not?
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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hidnn.o.s.
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Member # 1219
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posted
Regardless, none of us are stupid enough to go 3 years without changing oil.
Goodluck with that
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R.I.P. Willie G. You are missed on this forum
Posts: 15950 | Registered: Apr 2002
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kingmoochr
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Member # 5834
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posted
synthetic oil doesnt break down the same as dino oil does. good? sure, unless you are like the guy who owns the motor that spun a rod bearing because a globule of synthetic oil that he didnt change in 10k miles plugged an oil passage. i have personally seen what synthetic oil turns into when neglected. its absolutely disgusting and can cause catastrophic damage completely on its own.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
you obviously have never used a 100% syntheticoil before, and no Mobile is not 100% synthetic nor is syntec or pennzoil or the "Q" and noeone guarantees their oil except AMSOIL. I do and can show you proof that it will and does do the job. A 100% synthetic oil does not sludge or break down like petroleum. Being a class 4 synthetic unlike the other brands which are class 3 non synthetic, you can expect them to break down, it's inharent of that type of oil. I will conclude that unless you know and have studied how oils are made and differ from others I would'nt call someone who does "stupid"
you might want to due your research first before trashing someone who obviously knows more about oil than you.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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hidnn.o.s.
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Member # 1219
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
Regardless, none of us are stupid enough to go 3 years without changing oil.
Goodluck with that
I repeat with confidence ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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R.I.P. Willie G. You are missed on this forum
Posts: 15950 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
you obviously have M.O.M.S. Disease
Mineral Oil Mentality Syndrome. I repeat with confidence. Do the research.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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03SVTPower
CAFords OG
Member # 518
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bronco Man:
does anyone use synthetic oil? If not, why not?
That's 2 questions! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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2003 Redfire "AED" Cobra R.I.P
Posts: 3481 | From: Nor-Cal | Registered: Oct 2001
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
I run Amsoil in all my motors that I care about, and change it frequently.
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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norcalstangman
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Member # 8387
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posted
I too use AMSOIL. I love that shit out performs anything else on da market. I don't like that ROYAL PURPLE flower power crap. AMSOIL radiator to diff. full synthetic amsoil is really good. use it you won't regret it
Posts: 444 | From: san mateo, ca | Registered: May 2008
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badazlx
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Member # 4899
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posted
i run royal purple and a quart of lucas stabilizer
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03 mach bolt ons/125 shot
Posts: 911 | From: roseville | Registered: Sep 2004
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
Thanks for he reply guys, it's good to here feed back. I will ask another ? If you run Royal purple why do you run Lucas stabilizer also. If the oil you run has a complete package to start with, you don't need a supliment. A simple way to put it is, when you changed to R-P your engine felt good right? And when you changed it out again it felt good again. Shouldnt it feel great all the time? Now R-P just recently changed their formula and is useing a synthetic base stock which was petroleum before, so their seeing the benefits of producing a higher quality product, but it's only because their trying to keep up. At least it's better than petroleum. I'm trying to do this without seeming snobish, I'm just to give people info on a not to well informed subject. The oil company's don't want you to know the difference and are just trying to sell, sell, sell. Now I am too but when AMSOIL can guarantee the oil and no-one else will that should tell you something.Also the API does NOT regulate or test gear oils they simply set the peramiters and let the companies make it. Assuming that all is good, Wrong. After a 2 year independant study of gear oils they found that only 2 of 14 tested actualy passed. Amsoil 75-90 synthetic finished 1st, followed by Castrol 80-90 Hypoid which is petroleum. ALL others failed. even the stock ones from the factory's. FORD does'nt even make a 75-90 as it was pulled off the market over 3 years ago because it was so bad. any one that has a new vehichle should be looking for TSB's to see if the oil needs to be changed, but here's the bad part, even if you change it unless youn change to AMSOIL or Castrol Hypoid it will shear as soon as it gfets to running temp. and once it is sheared it's permanent. And now your metal to metal. I've seen the evidence when changing these fluids and it's real bad .The Auto makers are puting big magnets on the diff. covers and they are covered with metal. seems like I might be rambling but just rying to give you guys the facts, if you want more info on getting oil at wholesale contact me or go to my website. if you want more facts you can go to AMSOIL.COM. THANKS GUYS.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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kingmoochr
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Member # 5834
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posted
hey asshole, i told you what i saw FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. NOT reading some story on the internet. if you cant deal with that, since you are apparently the almighty lord when it comes to oil then keep that shit to yourself. i didnt call anyone stupid or attack anyone, YOU asked for opinions. if you cant deal with them like an adult then stop asking for them. i dont give a fuck what tests youve read (ive highly doubt you were the scientist involved in the actual research, based on the way you explain yourself) i know what ive seen with MY OWN EYES. youve had quite the attitude in a lot of your posts. dont make some whiny crybaby post when your motor goes because it has 20k mile old oil in it.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Jul 2005
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
BOOM! Chick chick.
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
First of all, all I did was ask if anyone was useing synthetic and for responces. I did't ask to be shot at, and no you did'nt call me stupid, but hidnn.o.s did. So I guess I was'nt talking to you was I. Second of all I never made the claim that I was reading it of some internet, as my vehichles are living proof that it does work and those are my personal experiences. I also never said I was the scientist who did all the research as was in the 60's. What I did say was FACT, as I have researched the products from many manufacturers and have made my own conclusions from those FACTS. Yes I am an AMSOIL dealer so I know my product as well as my competitors. It is required that I do reaserch so that I can stay ahead of what is going on in the industry. No I'm not hte almighty Lord, but how much do you know about it? Do you work for an oil company or are you just one of those guys who runs something because your friends do without any research? I ca give you millions of miles of research if you care to read it. I run into people like you all the time, they think they know everything and when you ask them questions it all comes out so i try to give a little education on the subject and right away I'm wrong and their the expert, even though they have no idea what I have just said. So before you start throwing out the asshole remarks pull your head out and do the research. By the way what was the oil that you had this failure with, damn sure it was'nt AMSOIL. I was asked to get into this forum by one of the founders and all I'm doing is putting out the facts but some people can't handle the facts.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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kingmoochr
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Member # 5834
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posted
i never claimed to know everything. i simply stated one documented experience of synthetic oil destroying a motor purely due to neglect. i didnt claim to have done research, or make any other statements than what i represented with evidence. i made no correlation to that event in regards to my use of synthetic oil. i use the oil my engine builder suggested, the oil that they run in their asphault 360 sprint cars (they are 360cid sbc's that have an operating range of 5k-9k rpm). if what they suggest protects their motors in that environment (included being contaminated with upto 30% methanol fuel), then thats enough research for me. i dont care to change anyone's opinion, i just like to supply real world experience to HELP people come to their OWN conclusion (NOT tell them what they SHOULD believe) without using muddy "scientific" spreadsheets and a bunch of other marketing bullshit (and yes, until im made aware of all the controls, the specific process, and the specific goals of any test, as well as the thought process they used to reach their conclusion, and their ability to reproduce their results, its bullshit)
i deal with people like YOU all the time, they get a little tidbit of information and automatically assume they know more than any other person they meet; until they get shut down and are forced to either backpedal to make amends or completely deny the experience of their intellectual rival (again, not the case here, since i admittedly dont know shit about how one oil compares to another) if you DID know me youd know that im open to every an all opinions about just about EVERYTHING as long as they are presented in a logical and scientific manner and the orator isnt a pissy poopy pants who is unwilling to accept anything contrary to their beliefs.
as far as facts are concerned, youve done NOTHING to ACTUALLY INTRODUCE facts into this conversation. you are merely stating you have them, and apparently no one else does, therefore you are to be regarded as the expert while everyone else wears the dunce cap. if you are truly only here to educate us, then fucking start already. im incredibly interested in learning about lubrication, since i want my expensive ass parts to last as long as possible, so go ahead, persuade me. if you even turn this around i may purchase from you. youve got a ways to go to get there, but its not an impossiblity.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Jul 2005
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kingmoochr
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Member # 5834
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posted
so i guess i dont get to learn about the benefits of synthetic huh?
Posts: 880 | Registered: Jul 2005
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gtowned
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Member # 8156
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posted
arent sales' pitches supposed to go in another area.
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Taking terminators off the road one at a time...
Posts: 1106 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Jan 2008
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
Sorry I did'nt get back to you sooner as i was away with my Boy Scout Troop. let's just say we got off on the wrong foot and I thought the pissy poopy pants thing was pretty funny, but lets leave the swear words out if you don't mind, it does'nt show a whole lot of character. So where to begin, at the beginnig? In the 20's Chevron came up with some synthetics but never did anything with it and they would have been considered a class III as determied by the courst today. There are 5 classes of base lubricants, class I, and II are pure petroleum, class III is also petroleum but has been hydrocracked, which is a way of changing the molecular structure so that they are more alike amd can be more predictable in responce to heat and cold. These have been called Synthetic by definition as the courts have given the oil companys the go ahead because they resemble the molecules more closely associated wih a synthetic. The British began testing on some first generation jet engines back in the 40's then Germany started their own testing and started trying different lubricants to make their engines survive as the oils they first tried did'nt hold up and they were loosing engines. The war came along and Germany had developed a synthetic blend and it worked fairly well and acouple months after that the U.S. also developed their synthetics and the race was on. Circa 1943. Now every jet aircraft that fly's today uses a 100% synthetic lubricant. If they did'nt they could'nt keep them in the air. The extreme pressures and tempurature ranges destroy normal petroleum and the results are dissasterous. They don't change oil unless oil analysis proves they should, and we impliment this into our policy as well, trucking companies all over the U.S. use this practice and it pays in savings in repair and maintenance.
Al Amatuzio was a Fighter Squadran Commander in the Air Guard, and has earned several comendations for his flying abilities. Twice winning the William Tell Award which is a test of manuverable flying ability. In 1960, after retiring from the Air Guard, he began to look at the possibility of using Synthetics in autmobiles, since he knew what it did for his aircraft he did'nt see why it could'nt be used in cars and trucks. That was the beginning of the legacy of AMSOIL. By 1966 he had come up with many different synthetic formulas, but was not satisfied until he had the best. In 1966 he put one of his formulas in his car and drove it all over the country telling the people about his invention and telling people to try it. Not with much luck to start with. in 1972 he put the first 100% synthetic oil for automotive use on the market, 10W-40 with a 25k mile or 1 year warrante on it. Now people called it "snake oil" and everything else under the sun and said it won't work, and it will never catch on, and it's to expensive, but he did'nt quit, and today he has the #1 synthetic oil on the market because he won't settle for second best. It is made 100% here in the U.S.A. and he won't let anyone take control of it because whenever that happens it will be destroid. Other oil company's try to make deals with him monthly but he won't sell, there is to much pride and integrity in the product, and he won't sell out his sales base, he's to loyal. Now we can get into the scientfic aproach. I assume you know about hydrodinamics, the ability to keep 2 surfaces seperated by the lubricating film. Friction causes heat and results in surface wear, Lubricity is the ability to keep these surfaces separated thus lessening the wear. Boundary lubrication occurs when a surfaces makes contact intermtently, like at start up and shut down. Elastohydrodynamic lubrication occurs
when pressure or load increases where the viscosity of the lubricant provides a higher shear strenth than the surface it supports. Like gears or bearings that carry the lubrication to the contact point. Lubricants should clean, cool moving parts, prevent contamination, dampen shock, prevent corrosion, and transfer energy. All of these components combine to make a lubricant, it can't do just one or a couple of these or it's not doing the job as it was intended. base stocks as we mentioned have many different characteritics and most are made of crude oil, so they are reffered to as mineral oils. to help these bases do their jop are the additives. There are 42 gallons in a barrel of crude oil and only aout 1.5% is used as lubricating oil. Paraffinic iols contain large amounts of wax which are fairly tempurature steady but are prone to high temp oxidation and low temp fluidity problems.
Napthenic stocks have low temp fluidity but have high temp oxidation problems. These are where group I, II, and III are assosiated with group III being the best of these. Group IV, and V are non mineral based oils. Group IV are all PAO ( polyalphaolefins), they are chemicaly engineered synthesized base stocks that have excellent stability, are uniform, and give great performance. Group V base oils are comprised of Esters, Polyglycols, and silicone. In Mr. Amatuzio's findings he found that the Group IV bases offered the greatest protection for his formulation. You see group V every day in shirts, pants, antifreeze, etc. Pao's are routinely manufactured by reacting ethylene gas with a metallic catalyst. Some of these great chacteristics are found in the group V bases but they tend not to last as long as some are more toxic than others, with PAO's being more biodegradable, less toxic, compatable with mineral oils, (yes you can add ours to yours)high viscosity index, and molecular predictability, being size, shape, and weight, as well as a wide operating temp range. Plus many other attributes. This is where it gets very technical, Testing methods for oil to be used in automobiles is tested by the American Petroleum Intsitute (API), so lets take alook at one test with all having a similar fluidity grade, viscosity @ 100 deg. C,group I-III being 4.1, IV is 3.9, our index is 99,104,124,and 124, repsectively. Our pour point in C is -18,-16,-19, and -73. With the group IV clearly being much better at cold temp. The CCS test. The shear rate viscometer measures the ability of an oil to permit a satisfactory cranking speed in a cold engine. So CCS @ -25 deg.C, cP is1430, 1440, 900, and 360. Next we have the brookfield viscosity test@ -40deg,C, cP, the first 2 are
"solid",group III is7000 with an added pour depressant and group IV is 2600. The next test is the NOAK volatility test which Al Amatuzio developed for the API. @ 150deg. C. V% is 28, 27, 14, 12, this is the percentage of viscosity loss. Oxidation stability is good, fair, and very good for the last 2. The deposit and sludge control are good very good and excellent for the last 2. Soot control for the samples are fiar good very good and excellent respectively. so as you can see the PAO based synthetic lubricants are by far a better choice, sure they cos more but not by much and they are certainly less expensive when you consider extended drain intervals. The cP that I refer to is centipoise, a unit of measurement of apparent viscosity, or as it is seen, like looking at honey or water. cST is the Kinemetic viscosity or actual viscosity as measured by the resistance to flow under gravity at a specific temp. usually 40degC, or 100deg.C. I hope this gives you a little insight to the inner workings of the oil industry and testing that they have to go through to get approved. So why is AMSOIL #1 because we back our oils 100%, if you put our oil in a sound running vehicle (it's not a mechanic in a bottle ) and it fails even if it's out of warrantee, we will request a sample of the oil and possibly the broken part and have an independant lab make the evaluation to determin if our product is at fault, and if so we will fix it, at no charge. In 35 years we have NEVER paid on a failure claim, but we have paid to help out someone that was getting nowhere with their car care provider. Usuallt we find nothing wrong with the part or the oil but then some months later we hear of a TSB or we get wind from the industry that there is aproblem with a particular part or car and then we go back after the manufacturer to resolve the problem. This happens all the time in the industry, a manufacturer will make a recall like Mitsubishi did stating that there is a problem with sludgeing and then say "we don't know what the problem is but we fixed it at the factory". Well it's obviously aa engineering problem. Honda had the same problem for over 6 years and they refused to help the consumer, they would tell you hat you did'nt change your oil often enough even if you had reciepts to show you did it every 3-5K like the book says, then they came out and said that the only wayto stop this problem is to go to a 100% synthetic oil, so what does that tell you about the industry? well I have to get my kids from school, if there's more info you want then I'll get it, just remember all oil is not the same and have been around the longest, 35 years this year, and everyone else has been chasing us ever since. First to develope an API rated 100% synthetic motor oil, first to introduce extended drain intervals, first U.S. company to utilize the noak volatility test, first to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel,racing, turbo, and marine engines, first to introduce synthetic oils that increase fuel economy, first to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use, first to manufacture 100:1 pre mix synthetic 2 cycle oil, and first to manufacture a synthetic automatic tranny fluid, and now we're first to develope a nanofiber technology air cleaner which the military uses in the A-1 Abrams tanks and hummers as well as oil in the unmanned drones. Please let me know if I can be of further help, and have a great day.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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BCINGUU
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Member # 2397
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posted
Wow! My brain hurts. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Some good info in there, thanks for sharing!
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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci
Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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kingmoochr
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Member # 5834
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posted
very nice bronco, thanks for that
Posts: 880 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bronco Man
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Member # 8401
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posted
You are very welcome.
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Hillars4xLube.com
Contact me anytime for questions... 510-857-7282
Posts: 98 | From: Fremont | Registered: May 2008
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