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Author
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Topic: 347 Buildup
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PeNiNsula302
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Member # 1061
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posted
 
 
Ok heres the breakdown. Basically i wanna start planning my new motor which is *hopefully* going in by august. I decided on a 347, but now its just where to go from here. I have always known i wanted AFR's and a hitech-motorsports custom cam, and am still trying to figure out which intake. Naturally, i want everything fully ported, flowed, polished, worked, all that good shit (hehe excuse my general thinking, im not a genious on this stuff yet). I definetely want the MAX power i can get, and the engine is staying N/A for now.
Any helpful hints on what to look at for some good info or who makes a good block please post it up! I have known about CHP for a while, but i heard they are unreliable ![[Confused]](confused.gif) . Should i have this custom built? or what?
*Edit*: Note this is going to be a daily driver for a few months, so i would like it to be an engine that isnt gonna quite after 15k. So when i say i want as much power as i can get, well, basically enough to run in the 11's and still be a somewhat reliable engine.
Thanks!
-Scott
[ January 13, 2003, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: PeNiNsula302 ]
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
first i wouldnt buy afr heads if you've going to have them ported.
second, CHP o-ringed my block and in doing so they also accidentally cut the deck of the block between the o-ring and cylinder lower than the rest of the deck which created the cumbustion to jump to the next cyl. they also originally sold me a short block with a CRACKED BLOCK. just lately they sold me an sfi flex plate with no sfi sticker and it turns out the flex plate doesn't even work on my car. fuck them. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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PeNiNsula302
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Member # 1061
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE:
first i wouldnt buy afr heads if you've going to have them ported.
second, CHP o-ringed my block and in doing so they also accidentally cut the deck of the block between the o-ring and cylinder lower than the rest of the deck which created the cumbustion to jump to the next cyl. they also originally sold me a short block with a CRACKED BLOCK. just lately they sold me an sfi flex plate with no sfi sticker and it turns out the flex plate doesn't even work on my car. fuck them.
Holy shit ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) . I guess they are out of the picture then. Also, why dont you recommend AFR's. Either way dont they come fully ported? i just remembered that.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Mar 2002
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88gt
Custom
Member # 579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeNiNsula302:
quote:
Originally posted by SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE:
first i wouldnt buy afr heads if you've going to have them ported.
second, CHP o-ringed my block and in doing so they also accidentally cut the deck of the block between the o-ring and cylinder lower than the rest of the deck which created the cumbustion to jump to the next cyl. they also originally sold me a short block with a CRACKED BLOCK. just lately they sold me an sfi flex plate with no sfi sticker and it turns out the flex plate doesn't even work on my car. fuck them.
Holy shit . I guess they are out of the picture then. Also, why dont you recommend AFR's. Either way dont they come fully ported? i just remembered that.
If you're going to port your heads, don't buy AFR's, but something like TFS TW heads.
Posts: 1482 | From: Santa Clara/Bay area | Registered: Nov 2001
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
I had problems with the threads in the end of 3 and counting probe 331 kits. This is the cast crank and I believe it is an eagle piece....
just FYI
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
I had problems with the threads in the end of 3 and counting cranks from probe 331 kits. This is the cast crank and I believe it is an eagle piece....
just FYI
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
PeNiNsula302- you're making a huge leap here. High 14's now and shooting for mid 11's in a few months? Almost always, shooting this long leads to a disaster. I'd recomend optimizing your stock motor first. Learn (cheaply) from that combo, and then choose weather you want to step it up a notch or three in your case. Once you do that, what's your budget? After you do the motor and tranny, combined with the tid bits along the way, you're looking at upwards of $7,000-8,000
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
If your bottom end in your current 302 is running good then Id play with some AFR 165s a hi tech cam and the appropriate intake manifold. Gears exhaust driving technique etc.
Also with that combo and small shot of nitrous you can go mid 11s easy with a mild streetable combo.
look at aaron C nate and camara
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
both camara77 and natelx342 (or whatever his screen name is) built respectable 347s. I'd probably try to do whatever they did.
I wouldn't try to go nuts with rpm either on that setup, plenty of cubes, no real need.
but st5150 and punkina are quite right. Baby steps in upgrades seem to work best.
Then again, if you outsource and buy a motor on a crate, there isn't a lot to screw up, you know, just put oil in it, lol.
[ January 13, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: shade-tree ]
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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PeNiNsula302
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Member # 1061
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
PeNiNsula302- you're making a huge leap here. High 14's now and shooting for mid 11's in a few months? Almost always, shooting this long leads to a disaster. I'd recomend optimizing your stock motor first. Learn (cheaply) from that combo, and then choose weather you want to step it up a notch or three in your case. Once you do that, what's your budget? After you do the motor and tranny, combined with the tid bits along the way, you're looking at upwards of $7,000-8,000
Lol high 14's? I would hope that i can pull off high 13's, considering 5.0brian with a similar setup is running 13.2's. Anyway, yeah i know the jump is gonna be a pretty big one from the 13's down, but i have no money to play with my stock motor now. The thing has 95k (which i know is young on most 5.0's), but its been hardly taken care of for most of its life, and i KNOW its just not worth throwing on the h/c/i. This is a decision i have come to with a lot of thinking.
Someone mentioned nitrous? Well i do plan on throwing on a 125-150 shot for this motors last few months, so that will give me some sort of feeling for getting used to such speed. All in all, so who would you all recommend to get the engine from?
-scott
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Mar 2002
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeNiNsula302:
The thing has 95k (which i know is young on most 5.0's), but its been hardly taken care of for most of its life, and i KNOW its just not worth throwing on the h/c/i. This is a decision i have come to with a lot of thinking.
-scott
Well, I have 130K on my H/C/I combo. Shooting for 11's, and full daily driver w/ all accessories. Your 5.0 has a lot of life left. If you really want to know what it is doing, do a compression check and then a leak down test. Bet it comes out to be pretty good.
JL
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'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
You only need 302 cubes to run 11's.
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
you don't really need practice driving fast in a straight line. I started with a 30 year old 289 then I used to run 13.5s at 101 with my old 351 and it felt like i was crawling at the top end, then i went to this motor and when i trapped 120, it still felt like the car was crawling.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by jmcclesk:
You only need 302 cubes to run 11's.
What he said. ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
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'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
Thanks Jim. 12.37 good job!!!!!
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
You can get 10's out of a properly built H/C/I 347 in a 3200lb car. With little more $$$ then you plan on spending as it is.
Ported heads & intake will cost you ~$2500-$3000 if you buy them new.
Shortblock ~$3000 or so
Cam, lifters, pushrods, RR's, ~$800
Fuel injectors, mass air, TB, longtubes, off-road H or X, etc....it all adds up, but figure it'll cost ~$9-10K total.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
Hell you don't even need 8 cylinders to run 11s. More cubes just makes it easier.
10s with a stock trans?
My friend built a 355 that runs 10s for $4,500 (engine and trans) add another $500 for the rear end and that's a 10 second drive train for $5,000 (3000 lb car). What's the trick? EBAY. Shop wisely and you will be rewarded.
My opinion is that 11s are pretty much your limit for a "reliable" all motor set up. but a lot of people would dissagree with my definition of "reliable"
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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PeNiNsula302
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Member # 1061
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE:
My opinion is that 11s are pretty much your limit for a "reliable" all motor set up. but a lot of people would dissagree with my definition of "reliable"
Thats what i figured too .
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Mar 2002
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeNiNsula302:
quote:
Originally posted by SIR Paint Job w/ '84 Tercel on MTBE:
My opinion is that 11s are pretty much your limit for a "reliable" all motor set up. but a lot of people would dissagree with my definition of "reliable"
Thats what i figured too .
I drive mine all the time, including road trips to LA from SF bay area. I will do another one in March. Some long tube headers, some tuning, maybe some cam degreeing, and I should be able to hit 11's. No spray or big boost, just a 5.0 put together w/ a lot of thought and good used parts. So do you still figure that going 11's will be on the edge of reliability? Who are you going to listen to, the people that have done it (both good or bad outcomes) or to opinions that happen to match your own?
What kills engines is either detonation or over rev. I shift at 6200 (only at the track) and have no issues w/ air-fuel ratio since it is N/A w/ a good fuel pump and the right injectors.
Finally, yes it is possible that your motor is no longer healthy at 95k. If it has not seen any oil changes and been overheated a few times then it could be toast. The only way to know for sure is to test it! The tools can be rented for FREE.
JL
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'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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Camara90
1%
Member # 134
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posted
[ January 13, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Camara90 ]
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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Camara90
1%
Member # 134
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posted
ya you might only need 302 cubes to run elevens, but what both jim, and john are not telling you is both there combos run strong part for part, but they are extremely light. Most of the time at the track johns interior is not in the vehicle, and jims car is pretty light as well. Not taking anything away from john but id like to see that setup run in the elevens in my car. Full leather interior, with cobra r's on nittos thats a different story.
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeNiNsula302:
Lol high 14's? I would hope that i can pull off high 13's, considering 5.0brian with a similar setup is running 13.2's.
Any Bob Cosby ran 12.5's@108 mph with a similar setup as 5.O Brian and I. Take it to the track and see
Shooting for a 11 second combo when you have never made one pass down the track before is an unrealistic goal.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Camara90:
ya you might only need 302 cubes to run elevens, but what both jim, and john are not telling you is both there combos run strong part for part, but they are extremely light. Most of the time at the track johns interior is not in the vehicle, and jims car is pretty light as well. Not taking anything away from john but id like to see that setup run in the elevens in my car. Full leather interior, with cobra r's on nittos thats a different story.
Well, my car weighed in at 3060 w/ full A/C, leather, power windows, power door locks, full factory 6 speaker stereo w/ amp. and all smog crap as well. The spare and hatch insulation was out and only 1/4 tank of gas. I am not sure I trust the old analog scale at Sac, so I will hit the new digital one the next time I am at the track. Since I haven't done any serious work at weight reduction other than aluminum heads and pulling the front sway bar, I don't consider my car an exception. Any LX w/ similar mods and less power accessories should weigh the same or less.
JL
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
Hell, I tell anyone that asks the car is 3070-3100 with me in the car. I ran a whole mess of 12.0X with the interior in the car. I plan on putting the interior back in and running a k-member and a glass hood. i hope i will still be in the 11.9X. Is it easer to run 11's in a 347 HELL yes. Did jim, Shade -tree and i go the hard way YES we did. BTW Mike what dose your car weigh????3300-3400 with you in it. I also want to mention that motor in my car has 70k+ 250 passes 30 dyno runs 13%to 19% leak down. this is a VERY used motor. What do you think it would run with new short block??
[ January 13, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: jmcclesk ]
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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Camara90
1%
Member # 134
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posted
Sawson has a point but i went from running 14.1 to 12.80's the first time at the track, and it dropped to a best 12.30 with the old setup.
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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