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Author
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Topic: question about AFR 185s .
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phat50
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Member # 1998
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posted
 
 
i was wondering if it was posible to use afr 185s on a stock 302 block,or would i have to buy something special in order to make them work,i know 165s would work but what about 185s?
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New toy coming soon!
Posts: 2860 | From: Richmond / Valley jo/ Petaluma | Registered: Oct 2002
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uncle bill
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Member # 3953
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posted
answer is yes they will work but you may loose more than you gain with a stock engine. the 185s have larger intake runners and valves and are designed to make power at a higher rpm than the 165s, so it is very likely you will loose low end while not improving your top end with a stocker
Posts: 415 | From: antioch | Registered: Dec 2003
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92stangLX
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Member # 3252
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posted
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Posts: 5302 | From: San Francisco | Registered: Sep 2003
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AJBlackGT
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Member # 3936
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
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90 Notch
Posts: 1896 | From: Sacramento | Registered: Dec 2003
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KRZ89GT
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Member # 4273
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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89' bLACk GT (stolen)
KRAZYFORDS
Posts: 353 | From: MICHOACAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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SmokinLX
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Member # 1684
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 89FOX:
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's.
I put the 185s on My N/A combo for a year with plans to put a charger on later, so it depends on your future plans for the car. I trapped 107 with the 185's N/A.
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Dont claim power if ya cant mile per hour. 10 second AOD
Posts: 4388 | From: East Bay | Registered: Aug 2002
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KRZ89GT
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Member # 4273
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
quote:
Originally posted by 89FOX:
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's.
I put the 185s on My N/A combo for a year with plans to put a charger on later, so it depends on your future plans for the car. I trapped 107 with the 185's N/A.
not saying they wont work at all. most likely they will not clear the stock piston since they carry the 2.02 valves. he will benefit more from the 165's if he's sticking with stock motor. my 02
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89' bLACk GT (stolen)
KRAZYFORDS
Posts: 353 | From: MICHOACAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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phat50
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Member # 1998
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posted
cool,thanks guys for the help.
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New toy coming soon!
Posts: 2860 | From: Richmond / Valley jo/ Petaluma | Registered: Oct 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
185's too big for a 302?!? Come on!
Yellow94GT ran VicJr's on a stock 94 GT bottom end & ran 12.4 on motor. VicJr's have 210cc intake ports! 185cc's is not very big at all.
165cc's is tiny!
Stock E7 heads are 145cc's.
Edelbrock 6037's are 175cc's.
TW's are around 185cc's but have a larger cross-sectional area due to the relocated valves.....the cross-sectional area is what you should be concerned about.. The larger the cross-section, the lower the velocity & the less TQ it'll make.
FYI, the most powerfull N/A 306 on this site was built 4 years ago & ran ported AFR165's with 2.02 valves & the CC of the intake was at least 180cc's. It made an impressive 340/340RW & had a camshaft that would pass smog. That's a TON of TQ for a 306 with 'large' heads.
My wife's 319 ran ported 185's that measured around 195cc's & made 360RWTQ & 388RWHP... No lack of low end on that sucker either! Granted it's not the same as a 347, but it stuck you in the seat pretty damn hard for running a stock crankshaft & 'large' heads.
Run the 185's with a stock GT camshaft & 1.7's & it'll make more TQ/HP then the 165's with an E cam.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Hungry Hippo
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Member # 537
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posted
the cam guru has spoken ![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
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05 S4 Avant(wagon)
09 C6 H/C/I
Posts: 2959 | From: east bay | Registered: Nov 2001
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phat50
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Member # 1998
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posted
whats the difference between edelbrock 6037s and afr165s?
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New toy coming soon!
Posts: 2860 | From: Richmond / Valley jo/ Petaluma | Registered: Oct 2002
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Quick 88LX
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Member # 1950
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by phat50:
whats the difference between edelbrock 6037s and afr165s?
the afrs flow much better out of the box
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"Men are Made, Not Born"
Car Picture : http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/quick88lx/
Original Member #495. Can I get my number back?
Posts: 1785 | From: Fairfield, CA/Okinawa, Japan | Registered: Oct 2002
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
AFR's are what I call 'high velocity' port designs.
The key differernce is port design.
6037's intake port entrance is rectangular....sharp corners, etc (same on the exhaust side). AFR's use a more oval shape, or more accurately a rectangle with wide rounded corners. Exhaust is also more rounded.
When porting heads anyone with experience would agree that you need to maximize flow around the valve guide....this is where you'll get the maximum benefit from the removal of material. AFR simply took this one step further & gave the incoming/outgoing airflow a nice straight, low turbulance path to follow in from the intake, around the intake guide, around the exhaust guide & out the exhaust port.
Basically AFR took the 'low flow' zone of rectangular designed ports (the sharp corners) & made those corners round which provides a straight path around the guide to the valve & helps flow tremendously without having to use a large port.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/headford.html
http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/images/185-ford-left-angle2.jpg
Pics aren't that great, but if you get a chance to compare the 2 side by side, you'll see the difference.
Edebrock quality is hands down the best I've seen on aluminum heads. Everything is helicoiled.....which is a very nice feature when someone overtorques an intake or header!
I'm porting some Vic Jr's at work. Basically taking the rectangular port & rounding the corners as much as possible, working around the guides, & aside from that doing as little as necessary. Wish I had before/after pics, but I've already done the major material removal on the exhaust side & a good junk of the intake side is done. My goal is for them to look very similar to AFR's design without removing too much material. The intake ports will probably end up being around 215-220cc's max. Exhaust around 78cc's. All on an EFI 347 all-motor setup that should have plenty of low end grunt & make peak power around 6500rpm.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
ANd the fastest stock bottom end 302/H/C/I was running what heads?
11.90 at 115, 3200lbs race weight, baby!
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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Hungry Hippo
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Member # 537
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posted
weren't they running gt40Y heads?
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05 S4 Avant(wagon)
09 C6 H/C/I
Posts: 2959 | From: east bay | Registered: Nov 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???
I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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street_illegal_stang
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Member # 1554
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
185's too big for a 302?!? Come on!
Yellow94GT ran VicJr's on a stock 94 GT bottom end & ran 12.4 on motor. VicJr's have 210cc intake ports! 185cc's is not very big at all.
165cc's is tiny!
Stock E7 heads are 145cc's.
Edelbrock 6037's are 175cc's.
TW's are around 185cc's but have a larger cross-sectional area due to the relocated valves.....the cross-sectional area is what you should be concerned about.. The larger the cross-section, the lower the velocity & the less TQ it'll make.
FYI, the most powerfull N/A 306 on this site was built 4 years ago & ran ported AFR165's with 2.02 valves & the CC of the intake was at least 180cc's. It made an impressive 340/340RW & had a camshaft that would pass smog. That's a TON of TQ for a 306 with 'large' heads.
My wife's 319 ran ported 185's that measured around 195cc's & made 360RWTQ & 388RWHP... No lack of low end on that sucker either! Granted it's not the same as a 347, but it stuck you in the seat pretty damn hard for running a stock crankshaft & 'large' heads.
Run the 185's with a stock GT camshaft & 1.7's & it'll make more TQ/HP then the 165's with an E cam.
AFR185 ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posts: 1276 | From: Long Beach C.A | Registered: Jul 2002
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WeSTBaY5.0
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Member # 5899
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posted
Wow I learned something new. Lol
Cafords
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Where did my 1100 posts go??
*originally Member number 4736*
1996 Cobra
1991 NOTCHBACK 43k FORD SALE
Posts: 681 | From: Redwood City | Registered: Aug 2005
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FasterDamnit
Bad Attitude
Member # 442
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???
I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's.
The point was that the ported TW's have big damn ports- and it still ran pretty well... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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'92 LX T5
Looked stock, went 11's 11.90 at 115mph.
'65 Mustang 347
www.fordmuscle.com
Livin' in the Carolina Pines
Posts: 2971 | From: NorCal | Registered: Sep 2001
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
AFR 205's!!
Oh, no one asked about those.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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KRZ89GT
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Member # 4273
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posted
AFR still the best out the box!
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89' bLACk GT (stolen)
KRAZYFORDS
Posts: 353 | From: MICHOACAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???
I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's.
The point was that the ported TW's have big damn ports- and it still ran pretty well...
Point taken. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Wait till you see these VicJr's I've been working on (I'll be sending you pics)... I'm removing as little as possible but they started out at 210cc's! I'm sure they'll be under 220cc's by the time I'm all done... Gotta get velocity as high as possible.....it's only a 3.4 inch stroke they're going on.
[ August 20, 2005, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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phat50
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Member # 1998
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posted
im spending to much money trying to keep up with everybody,this shit is addictive like crack!
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New toy coming soon!
Posts: 2860 | From: Richmond / Valley jo/ Petaluma | Registered: Oct 2002
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