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Author
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Topic: how about that, latest MM&FF head stuff
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
 
1st they piss everyone off and don't get any dyno #'s like they did last time, just took measurements...
but one thing I noticed...
the AFR-185 is beaten handidly all the way to 0.45" lift by the cheap TFS TW head, lol. Should give (well should give maybe ONE or TWO people) some pause as to which head to buy. Typical cams only lift to say 0.44 (stock cam) or 0.50 ish to 0.55 on the high end in our street-ish HR setups.
but yeah I'd reserve judgement for the dyno #'s of course, and flow #'s aren't everything.
but still, seems surprising to me.
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Notice how they're always scared to line up the TW against the AFR165?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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Joe, this is a 2 part series. First the measurements and flow #'s and then the dyno. Just like the last head comparison ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Like I've always said flow #'s are one thing but power is another. What about the exhaust side? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) The 165's have the same exhaust port. There's more to power than intake #'s to .450 lift on the intake side, LOL. BTW what are the #'s across the board for both heads? I'll have to look at the magazine again.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
no don't misunderstand me: I fully expect the AFR-185's to kick it's but on the dyno, I'm guessing 10 rwhp or so. But still, I expected the AFR-165's big brother to spank the TFS TW head, it's average flow #'s to 0.55 lift was below (and well below at 0.3) the TFS head.
the exhaust flow on the AFR heads are great and all, but how many of us run open headers anyways I figure those of us with 10' of exhaust piping per cylinder bank are roughly equal on the exhaust side ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Notice how they're always scared to line up the TW against the AFR165?
they did that in '00
TFS TW 303 rwhp, AFR 165 300 rwhp
stock 302 shortblock, B-cam, GT-40 intake (?) and not too many drivetrain accessories
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Sawson-
Do you even know why? It's more of a cross section thing, and the 2.02 valve for a street head. Or what they classify as street. BTW I'm not scared to compare #'s. I'm sure Chirag's not either for the mods he's got.
I'm gonna end any and all debate on my part. I'll just say this. I'll let my little 165's do the talking. No need to talk theories etc. I'll post up the results and let them speak for themselves. It's gonna make a lot more than ANY of you think!
[ August 28, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: AaronC ]
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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The Nick
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Member # 2244
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posted
<--- proud TFS TW head owner/driver. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Fast, Cheap or Reliable. Pick two and live with it.
Posts: 1215 | From: The Delta | Registered: Dec 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Nick:
<--- proud TFS TW head owner/driver.
Your heads have 2.02 vavles though, obviously they're not "street" heads
shade-- Good to know they tested them side by side in '00. Did they mill the TFS's so the combustion chambers were the same size?
Aaron- Congrats, you'll be the only AFR165 guy in a "class" full of TFS TW guys.... you should just mill some TW's and toss them on so you'll fit in with your classmates I bet you it won't even make a noticible performance difference ![[Cool]](cool.gif) Until your dyno tune.... ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Setup the shootout at Apex or the Ranch like you mentioned and I'll let my parts do the talkin for me. I don't need to spit theory anymore.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
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posted
2.02 valves aren't for the street? BAH! Whudevea
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AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
the old MM&FF didn't mill the TFS heads, so the AFR-165 did have a decent half point or so compression advantage.
anyways dyno#'s are great and everything guys, just make sure you keep the LS1 behind you mmmk?
did somebody just suggest side-by-side dyno racing? OMG! Supra guy in the house!
[ August 28, 2003, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: shade- ]
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Considering a heads up dyno day shootout Anyone interested?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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4RS FED
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Member # 2067
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Considering a heads up dyno day shootout Anyone interested?
ok i am down, ill use my gt 40's and lets see what happens ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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i have a twin turbo mustang and you don't!
Posts: 3686 | From: 650 | Registered: Nov 2002
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
I thought we went to the track to prove our point?? Now we dyno race?? I think arron will make 355-360 at the wheels. Put that motor in a coupe (BTW- i have one for sale) And i will bring the white car out of retirement.
[ August 28, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: jmcclesk ]
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
We're hostile, we'll even mud wrestle as long as a winner is declared ![[Whoo Whooooo!]](graemlins/woowoo.gif)
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Stock shortblock dyno day N/A shootout? I like that idea.
I'm sure 91PONY will show. Gotta get the damn thing tuned anyway.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
Arron i am not hostile. I am GLAD your car is up and running. I hope to see some good track and dyno # soon. Let me know when you take it to the track.
[ August 28, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: jmcclesk ]
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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Elapid
GOROBGO
Member # 50
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posted
i'd like to see how my LX does on the ol' dyno...
hmmmm
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98 Cobra
83 Notch rolling chassis - fs
Posts: 1797 | From: Grass Valley, CA USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
I'm not saying I dyno race. People are misunderstanding me. When people wanna talk POWER #'s and heads being equal etc. Then lets crunch #'s. Don't bail out when claims are made of equality. I never said I wouldn't race on a track. But the dyno eliminates a lot of variables (powershifting, raceweights, gearing etc). It's the only way to get a true output of a motor. Unless you have a turbo like shaun, LOL. I WILL race at the track. Even though I don't powershift and will be 470 lbs (gonna take about 50 RWHP more for me to do this) heavier than Shade Tree, I WILL trap right with him. So my point will be proved right there! On the racetrack and on the dyno.
[ August 28, 2003, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: AaronC ]
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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jmcclesk
Moderator
Member # 1355
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posted
Dyno's are a good TOOL but they are just that a tool. My car runs faster and quicker at the track with a fuel pressure setting that doesent give the best hp on the dyno. As far as using mph for power on my car the # seem to about 20-25 hp off.
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Ford trained ASE master tech.
Posts: 4024 | From: marrysville | Registered: May 2002
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Glenn
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Member # 520
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posted
so what are the set ups going to be? Does anyone have TW's and AFR 165's with the same cam? Wouldn't that be the only true way of telling which head made more power?
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S-Trim,331,H/C/I
"JohnB groupie train"
My Car
DragGuam
Posts: 2009 | From: Stationed on a Pacific Island, Guam | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Nick
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Member # 2244
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Glenn:
so what are the set ups going to be? Does anyone have TW's and AFR 165's with the same cam? Wouldn't that be the only true way of telling which head made more power?
If someone wants to give me a pair of AFR165s, I'll gladly help out.
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Fast, Cheap or Reliable. Pick two and live with it.
Posts: 1215 | From: The Delta | Registered: Dec 2002
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Jon, I agree it's a tool. I go to get my A/F ratio set and for better driveability. The track might tell a different story for fuel as the loads are different. This thread was started because shade was disappointed about no DYNO #'s in a magazine shootout. And flow #'s obviously. Funny he calls me a Supra racer when he wanted DYNO information from the magazine.
Now that a local shootout has been mentioned and I'm a willing participant I'm called a Supra racer, LMAO. I will let you know soon when I'm gonna race. I'll be asking for some advice when I go. Probably within a week or two.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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Camara90
1%
Member # 134
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posted
IM DOWN FOR THE LOCAL DYNO TEST OR RACE!!
Shit all i know is i dont care what heads make power afr or trick POOP, hahaa, J/P ! It is all about the numbers and e.t does walk the walk. But from Aarons point of view he is gonna have almost a 500 spot on shade and if his heavy as vert traps the same mph thats saying something. Thats why a dyno can elimanate the variables. Peak power aint always everything, as we all know are favorite ls1 boys who make 440 they say and trap 116.... Proove that!
[ August 28, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Camara90 ]
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92GT,stock short block,9:1 TFS 170's,perf rpm,custom cam,1 5/8 shorties,C4 trans.
std. 356hp, 350tq
11.85@111.9mph on motor.
Posts: 2351 | From: 707 | Registered: Jan 2001
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