Author
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Topic: How much power will this combo make?
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
I'd like to hear what you guys think this combo will make on the dyno. Here are the specs:
306ci 8.5 to 1 compression TFS heads with port work by a random shop TFS Stage 1 cam Edelbrock RPM intake (unported) 1 5/8" LT's with 2.5" offroad exhuast Vortech S-trim @ 12psi 100 octane
The car is a 5-speed.
-------------------- '90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's '10 ZR1: FOR SALE '14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU '04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Any idea what the heads flow? Either way, I'm smelling low 500 rwhp.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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LAST302
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Member # 808
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posted
I got almost the same combo: 306 8:5:1 TFS Wedge out the box Comp Cam TFS Street Intake(unported) 10# Vortech S-trim Shorties
Dynoed 466 at the wheels
Posts: 1147 | From: Disco Bay | Registered: Jan 2002
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
do either one of u know what the trick flow heads flow, i am going to running a similar setup, just ford gt40x heads, i know there not great nut they are what i have, i would be happy with 400 to the wheels
-------------------- FFR AC Cobra 72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
last302 and jeff, what size injectors are u running and what psi, i would like to get a ballpark figure so i know what i am dealing with
-------------------- FFR AC Cobra 72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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LAST302
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Member # 808
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posted
Look around here- www.trickflow.com. I will find my paperwork on the heads maybe tomorrow and post.
Posts: 1147 | From: Disco Bay | Registered: Jan 2002
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LAST302
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Member # 808
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posted
42# at 38psi
Posts: 1147 | From: Disco Bay | Registered: Jan 2002
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
the trickflow page is down, not all together, but u cant look at the twisted wedge heads, i get a run time error, no clue why, maybe it is just me, but it has been doing this for a few days, thanks
-------------------- FFR AC Cobra 72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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LAST302
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Member # 808
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posted
Hope this helps- Intake Exhaust CFM CFM .100 63 53 .200 141 107 .3 205 144 .4 233 171 .5 251 187 .6 251 193
Posts: 1147 | From: Disco Bay | Registered: Jan 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote: Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA: do either one of u know what the trick flow heads flow, i am going to running a similar setup, just ford gt40x heads, i know there not great nut they are what i have, i would be happy with 400 to the wheels
Your GT40X heads flow about 210 cfm. The TFS's flow about 30 cfm more on the intake. An S trim with an E cam, and pretty much any aftermarket intake manifold mated to those GT40X heads will get you 400+ RWHP.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
66 AC COBRA ,
I have no idea what the heads flow since they've never been tested nor do I even know who ported them(they were bought used). The combo I listed is using 42# injectors(injectors are rated at 45psi) @ 42psi. 400 to the wheels should not be a problem for you.
-------------------- '90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's '10 ZR1: FOR SALE '14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU '04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
LAST302,
Do you know what your timing curve looks like or what your total timing is? Also do you know the cam specs on your COMP CAM? [ February 05, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]
-------------------- '90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's '10 ZR1: FOR SALE '14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU '04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Jeff, why not stick in the Anderson B2 or TFS stage 2 cam? I know this combo isn't fashionable on corral.net aka "home of the bench racers", but it has been proven to work time and time again for a decade now:
http://www.yarmouthautosales.com/stang91.html
Your buddy should follow this guys setup!
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX'
Uncle Frank
Member # 895
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posted
quote: Originally posted by st5150: Jeff, why not stick in the Anderson B2 or TFS stage 2 cam? I know this combo isn't fashionable on corral.net aka "home of the bench racers", but it has been proven to work time and time again for a decade now:
http://www.yarmouthautosales.com/stang91.html
Your buddy should follow this guys setup!
Scott(90gt) and I were talking about a similar set up in my car acutally about the same!!! If I wasn't gona go with a custom grind I want to go with that B-2 or something similar. I am glad you guys are having this discusion it helps me learn what I am looking forward to.
-------------------- AKA Franky Freaking 5 liter
Advanced Engine Development SCT dealer Dynotuning Engine building 916*275*8212
88 4runner on 42's
Posts: 4206 | From: Folsom | Registered: Feb 2002
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
st5150,
Actually the AFM B-x cams seem to be QUITE popular on the corral and that car you are refering to belongs to a corral regular.
I didn't choose the TFS stage 1 cam for the car, he did, but I didn't see any point in having my buddy change his cam. My experience with blowers is that regarlesss of the cam you use you can easily make enough power to crack the stock block.
Maybe you're thinking that i'm asking about a hypothetical combo when actually the car/combo is in my friends notch and will be tuned by yours truely tomorrow at Apex using a PMS.
I am currently running the TFS stage 2/AFM-B4 in my 331 and I have a FTI cam that will be here any day now to replace it. I'll be sure to do a before and after dyno test on my car with the only difference being the cam/valvesprings. I'm sure you'll be estatic to see the result whether good or bad.
[ February 05, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]
-------------------- '90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's '10 ZR1: FOR SALE '14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU '04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
98slowhoe- You have to keep in mind that minor details always get left out from the time the car makes it down to the track to the time the racer types about it on the internet. Those heads are ported more than you are lead to believe, but none the less, its still a back yard job. Also some real gas was used. I forget, but it was something like 110 or 114 octane. This is KEY to running these numbers out of a true daily driven 5.O. I'm sure there are countless other small details that are over looked on that web page, but they add up to make a difference on the timeslip.
Shoot, I can't tell you the number of small things I do on my STOCK motor that end up making on my timeslip: showing up 1-2 hours early for a cool down, icing the intake like a mad man, never revealed on the internet until now, but I also ice my ACT sensor or replace it with a spare cold one. I religously route my plug wires, remove spare padding, brakets, fluids, ect to save weight that normal "sane" racers wouldn't, make sure the EEC has no codes, ect.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
I thought all those 'little details' don't matter!
-------------------- www.advancedenginedevelopment.com SCT dealer Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX'
Uncle Frank
Member # 895
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posted
True there is always those little things. I am not really expecting those exact numbers, but I am expecting a pretty good running car. The little things do count for a lot after awhile.
-------------------- AKA Franky Freaking 5 liter
Advanced Engine Development SCT dealer Dynotuning Engine building 916*275*8212
88 4runner on 42's
Posts: 4206 | From: Folsom | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Jeff- No doubt the results will be interesting, even though I'm not sure how unbias you'll be
As for AFM cams on the corral..... those band-wagon monkeys over there don't have a brain. Someone will post an impressive basic combo like: "I ran 114 MPH NA with Brodix ST 5.O heads and a AFM cam" and 6 monkeys will reply telling him how he should get a custom cam and AFR165's if he really wants to make his combo work
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote: Originally posted by 93PONY: I thought all those 'little details' don't matter!
Little details like having your cam 1 degreed retarded or advanced doesn't make a difference. Nit picking about a few cfm or few cc of runner volume doesn't make a difference.... at least not compared to my 99 cent bag of ice
I think you need to read this seven year old cam artical again and again until you understand the profound meaning of its message:
http://www.alternativeauto.com/waterbox/wb-archives/cams.html
Infact I say every 5.O nut should read these:
http://www.alternativeauto.com/waterbox/archive.html
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
st5150,
Would you agree that a E303 cam is not a good cam to use in a PURE STREET car? Would you also agree that the AFM b-4 cam may work great in one combo and terrible in another? If you do agree then why do you not seem to agree that a custom cam will work better then a random catalog cam. Even if you only gain 10hp or so it's definitely a "bang for your buck" to spend an extra $100 for one. [ February 05, 2003, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]
-------------------- '90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's '10 ZR1: FOR SALE '14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU '04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote: Originally posted by Jeff S: st5150,
Would you agree that a E303 cam is not a good cam to use in a PURE STREET car? Would you also agree that the AFM b-4 cam may work great in one combo and terrible in another?
I think the E cam is the "duct tape" of all 5.O/302 cams Duct tape works everywhere, but more often than not, there is a better, but more expensive and elaborate way to "fix" it
The Anderson B4/TFS Stage 2 cam has proven to work well on centrifically blown cars with heads that flow comprable or better than TFS's. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, just look at trends amoung hard running cars. You'll see names like Vortech, Trick Flow, and AFM written on at least one or more parts under the hoods of almost all the fastest 5.O's around here.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote: Originally posted by st5150: quote: Originally posted by Jeff S: st5150,
Would you agree that a E303 cam is not a good cam to use in a PURE STREET car? Would you also agree that the AFM b-4 cam may work great in one combo and terrible in another?
I think the E cam is the "duct tape" of all 5.O/302 cams Duct tape works everywhere, but more often than not, there is a better, but more expensive and elaborate way to "fix" it
The Anderson B4/TFS Stage 2 cam has proven to work well on centrifically blown cars with heads that flow comprable or better than TFS's. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, just look at trends amoung hard running cars.
& custom cams have proven to work well time & time again. quote: You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, just look at trends amoung hard running cars.
1 degree here, custom cam there.....it all adds up!
-------------------- www.advancedenginedevelopment.com SCT dealer Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
quote: & custom cams have proven to work well time & time again.
I haven't seen any around here. If and when the custom cam invasion finally does hit Northern California, remember it takes, more than one, two, thee or even four examples to make something "proven" [ February 06, 2003, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote: Originally posted by st5150: quote: & custom cams have proven to work well time & time again.
I haven't seen any around here. When the custom cam invasion finally does hit, remember it takes, more than one, two, thee or even four examples to make something "proven"
Open your eyes. Mike Camara blew doors off with his HCI 347. Aaron's Vert made the most power you've ever 'seen' come out of a 302....& that cam was smogable! You rode in his car un-tuned. Ever feel an N/A 302 with that kind of power?
I hope to be back on the dyno within a month. & you will see with your own eyes exacty what just a cam swap can do.....with 'cyber internet' turbos none the less.
-------------------- www.advancedenginedevelopment.com SCT dealer Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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