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Author
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Topic: Think I blew a head gasket or two
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
 
 
I started pulling things apart to take a peak and see what the problem is. I knew the #7 cylinder wasn't doing so well cause the plug was black/sooty but dry and fouled out. I haven't done an official compression test yet but I did stick my finger in the plug hole on that cylinder. As I suspected it is down on compression. Compared to cylinder #5 which wanted to blow my finger out of the hole. I checked the rockers and they seem to be fine and the valve springs seem ok too. Now I haven't noticed oil in the coolant or other way around. I've had bubbles in the overflow when the car is up to temp but they're not the tiny bubbles I've heard of. The car hasn't been running hotter than normal either. Does this sound like a head gasket problem? I'll do a compression test and get exact #'s but it looks like I'll be down for a while.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
hrmmmmm
Id like to come and see it before you go any further.
Tired of this over the phone and internet troubleshooting.
Some things are better done in person.
I say no head gasket problem as it stands from reading what you wrote.
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PunkINa5.SLOW:
[QB]hrmmmmm
Id like to come and see it before you go any further.
I need someone with more experience to troubleshoot this one. I hope it's not a gasket but it's not looking good for whatever it is. If it's rings, I'm gonna be HEATED!!!! ![[Mad]](mad.gif) I'm just tired of wrenching on it constantly and just want to drive it!!!! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
[QUOTE]
I need someone with more experience to troubleshoot this one. I hope it's not a gasket but it's not looking good for whatever it is. If it's rings, I'm gonna be HEATED!!!! I'm just tired of wrenching on it constantly and just want to drive it!!!!
counting me out then?
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
I'm just tired of wrenching on it constantly and just want to drive it!!!!
man I hear that. I hope it's just something simple.
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
How 'bout a leak-down test. That'll tell you more than a compression test.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by PunkINa5.SLOW:
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
[QUOTE]
counting me out then?
LOL, my bad, I was talking about me. I'd be honored if you had the time to look it over.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Just curious why you'd say it's ring related? When I redid the intake because of an oil leak I had a leak on a water pump hose and the car heated up pretty good. Almost got to the top but I shut it off pretty quick. I popped the hood and sure enough I was leaking coolant all over the timing cover. I let it cool down then topped off the radiator and limped her home and tightened the hose. Ever since, I've seen those bubbles in the overflow tank. Not sure what that means. #7 cylinder is down on some compression (at least half) and haven't checked the others yet. If a gasket did go it's probably cylinder to cylinder. I've been experiencing a bad miss and that's what's caused this tear down. The car was running like a champ except for the bubbles but maybe it finally let go. Anyway I'm stumped and my feeling is I won't know what it is until I pull it all apart. It'd be nice if I didn't need to though. I will do a compression test, then try a leak down and see what comes of it. I wish it was a valve spring or rocker issue but that's not looking promising.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
hrrmmm
Ive dealt with alot of small block dorfs man but I cant call this one without havin a look at it with me own eyes.
Nasty looking plugs always worry me tho.
Usually not head gasket related unless well...the plug is wet.
Just from what I have seen tho.
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Well, good luck. Hope it's nothing major...
I can tell you that when my rings went I pulled out really oily plugs...5 of them.
BTW, what HG's did you go with?
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Well, good luck. Hope it's nothing major...
I can tell you that when my rings went I pulled out really oily plugs...5 of them.
BTW, what HG's did you go with?
Well that makes me feel somewhat better. I went with the Fel Pro gaskets. Forget the part # but they're pretty popular. I take it your plugs were wet?
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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66 InjectedCobra
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Member # 819
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posted
I wanted to lean toward rings cause you said that #7 was dirty W/ oil compared to the others. I'm not saying the gaskent didn't take a shit either but usually you will see wet plug or plugs and white smoke out the exaust I seen my car do that at SAC
Every time the head gasket took a shit it was #7 pushing into #6 or
#7 pushing into #8
The last time this happend I could hardly tell except for the lil miss and poor compression on #7.
Take it from there
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Just An Old Slow Ford!
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=6389544
Posts: 2857 | From: bay area | Registered: Jan 2002
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1SLOWLX
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Member # 558
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posted
I have blown a head gasket before and this doesn't sound like it. Is the water in the radiator going lower and lower? Or is the car running hot?
Albert
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Built Tuff with your stuff ;)
Posts: 5231 | From: bay area | Registered: Nov 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by AaronC:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Well, good luck. Hope it's nothing major...
I can tell you that when my rings went I pulled out really oily plugs...5 of them.
BTW, what HG's did you go with?
Well that makes me feel somewhat better. I went with the Fel Pro gaskets. Forget the part # but they're pretty popular. I take it your plugs were wet?
Yep, the treads were soaked. Other than that, they looked good.... Gonna clean them up & us 'em again.
Well, if it turns out to be a HG, maybe try the FRPP M-6051-B51....Graphite w/a metal skeleton....they are strong! $45 a pair.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
I have no oil on any threads or on any plugs. Just one fouled out plug that was black. It wasn't wet or oily. Just black, like carbon built up. I do know that cylinders 7-8 are down on cylinder pressure. and haven't checked 1-4 but suspect that 2 and 3 are down as well. Right now I'm suspecting valve springs or rockers but not sure about anything. It seems the consensus is, it's not a head gasket. The coolant level is good and oil is normal, no gas smell or coolant in it. I talked to TheBrain about it since he broke 3 valve springs running a TFS #2 cam. He said his exhaust note changed and sounded very odd as well. He mentioned that his plugs were black like mine. I have the stock springs that the 165's come with but they were shimmed to give more pressure. I'm thinking it's possible that they are giving up and that's what's causing the problem. The rockers seem to be adjusted fine. I watched them work up and down and the movements look normal. Maybe I bent a valve or something. Who knows. I wish I could just see something broken so I can order something better/stronger and get on with it. I'll probably do the springs anyway since I'm gonna get an RPM upper in hopes of carrying power another 200-300 more RPM and shift at 6400 ish.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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PunkINa5.SLOW
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Member # 10
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posted
Ahhhh for what its worth and the ease and cost of doing it yourself Id blow the heads off of it and have a look around.
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OUTTA THA DRAMA
R.I.P. MIKE STARKEY MY BABY BROTHER
12/8/77-5/17/03
Posts: 2495 | From: MTZ | Registered: Sep 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
I think you're right. I'm just gonna bite the bullet and pull it all apart and inspect it all. I haven't had much time lately but I need to get it done. Either it's the springs, bent some valves, or had piston to valve contact. #7, #8 are confirmed down and I'm suspecting #2-3 are too based on the header tubes getting hot when running. That explains why it's been hard to start too.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
can't be that bad with 109+ traps at your weight. don't get too down.
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Doesn't sound good...
Was chatting with Ed Curtis today. He wishes you luck.
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Doesn't sound good...
Was chatting with Ed Curtis today. He wishes you luck.
Just curious.... How'd my name pop up in that conversation? What'd he have to say? You lookin to get a turbo cam? I think the only way I'll ever really know what's going on is to pull it apart and go from there. I know at least 4 cylinders are down on some compression and maybe 5. The weird thing is all the plugs look somewhat normal except for the fouled out #7. After I changed that out with a fresh one, I started it up and let it get up to temp and reved it a little and turned it off. Pulled it out and it's normal too. Something weird is going on. Is there a tool I can use to check the springs and see if they are the problem? If so, where can I find one and how much?
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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posted
what would weak valve springs have to do with poor compression? (especially when measured from the speed of your starter?)
I don't see how they're related. Sure weak springs could cause valve float or even P/V interference at RPM, but at around 100-200 rpms, so long as the rockers are adjusted right, your valves are going to close the cylinders and compression shouldn't be affected. just my $0.01
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
I called him to get some parts for my new motor. Ended up asking about my choice of cam (stock) & then got to chatting about a custom cam for Heather's 91GT. She wants 110 in the quarter, so I think a custom is the best bet.
Anyway, he started talking about how the AFR165's flow even better with 2.02 valves...yada yada & I mentioned that I knew of someone (you) that had that done & had good results.... He remembered you from your posts on the Corral. Apparently your cam grinder (Brian) was calling Ed for advise.... Ed doesn't seem to think too highly of reverse grind cams in Fords... He thought you'd be closer to 360/350, but wished you good luck w/fixing the motor. He also suggested checking the injector harness....said it's somewhat common to have one injector not fire & take out a cylinder.
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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AaronC
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Member # 86
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posted
Cool, So is Heather gonna get a cam? If so, what do the specs look like? What'd he have to recommend for her setup. I know Ed loves that 109 LSA. I can't believe he thought 360/350 ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) That would be unreal for these parts. All I can say is that if I'm pulling these heads some 185's are going on and so is an RPM upper. Try to get the power to 355-360. A guy on here is doing the 185/bigger cam/ RPM intake and Brian thinks it could pump out 370. The more I check things out the more I think it's head gaskets again. It's kinda odd that all the cylinders that are dead are next to each other. The leak down will show what's wrong I hope. I'll try to get to it this weekend.
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1991 GT Convertible: Stock 157k mile shortblock, HiTech cam, AFR 165 heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1 3/4 headers
12.23 at 112.99
Best MPH 113.97
Posts: 776 | From: woodland | Registered: Dec 2000
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Ed is a little hot headed. What he said was that he had a guy running less compression, less head & smaller cam with 348/330 or something like that.
Whatever you do, you're definately putting out some great power for a 306. 351's have a hard time making those numbers.
Heather doesn't have the $$$ right now. She needs a clutch, tires, tranny....the rear is knocking on take-off.... Too much stuff!
But, when the time comes, she'll spend ~$500 & pick up 3-4mph pretty easy w/a ported lower intake & custom cam. We didn't get into cam specs for her car, it's probably going to happen next season.
I really hope it's a gasket. Anything else is gonna be a pain just figuring out what went wrong.
Serously though, check out those M-6051-B51's. Those are some beefy gaskets. That's what's going on my baby hopefully next week!
--------------------
www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4265 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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