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Author
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Topic: Thanks Norman! - turbo 302 Sheldon
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turbo302
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Member # 2786
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posted
 
 
First I would like to say thanks Norman for recognizing my accomplishments at the track. Sorry it took me so long to post a reply (we've had computer gremlins). My first pass at the track was a 10.9 at 129 mph. That was just going up to the line and mashing the throttle. My second pass went in on the foot brake, hit the trans-brake button and launched at 4psi of boost. I ran a 1.45 60ft and a 10.2 at 132mph. I short shifted 2nd gear, my fault. My third pass I red-lit, but my launch was the best of the night (pulled the tires on the launch). Those passes were made with a conservative tune, 11.01 afr on the wideband, 19 degrees of timing, and the best part was I only used 12psi of boost. There's a lot left in it! Hopefully I'll get in the 9's the next time out (if the stock 5.0 block stays together). If not, I do have an R block waiting. I know some members are curious about my setup, it's a stock 5.0 block 302 with main support, box stock TFS heads and intake, TTI race kit, T76 turbo, and yes, it is a street car. It has a built AOD transmission. The rewarding thing about all of this is I built the motor myself in my garage and I did all the fabrication work (the roll-cage, suspension, torque box work, the exhaust system, etc.) the suspension is all wolf race craft. I know there's a lot of stuff I'm leaving out, the post would be too long if I put it all in here. If you want to know in more detail what I have, feel free to respond to the post.
Thanks for your interest!
- Sheldon, turbo302
Big Boy Racing Fabrications
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turbo302
10.20/133
Big Boy Racing Fabrication
www.bigboyracing.com
Posts: 83 | From: bay area | Registered: May 2003
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93PONY
Mr. Valve Events
Member # 60
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posted
Nice!
Wish I was there to see those runs....just heard about them from buds who where there.
What does your car weigh?
Currious as to how much power you're making on the production block.
Wish I had an R-block lying around!
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www.advancedenginedevelopment.com
SCT dealer
Dynotuning
(916)715-7569
Posts: 4266 | From: Fair Oaks, CA | Registered: Nov 2000
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Yellow94GT
Mr. 60 FT
Member # 431
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posted
I was there the day you ran. Nice car and very nice times. Any idea what power you are making on that stock block? Also, what girdle are you running?
Keep up the hard work, you car is awesome ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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AED
1994 GT Bucket that will likely never run
1999 SLOLEEN Twin Turbo Coyote
2008 F250 580 RWHP 1129 RWTQ
Posts: 5990 | From: Cameron Park, Ca | Registered: Sep 2001
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JoeT
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Member # 298
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great work! awesome combo.
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1984 Ford Tempo AOD--- RIP
Posts: 6785 | From: San Jose | Registered: Jun 2001
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66 AC COBRA
Nitrous King
Member # 904
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posted
i want to know everything u have because i eventually want to be running that setup just 357 on a r 351 block
turbo or turbos ![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
what psi will u be running once the r block is in place
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FFR AC Cobra
72 Vega - WCHRA Extreme 10.5
Posts: 6280 | From: Winters | Registered: Feb 2002
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Red C5
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Member # 1561
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posted
Very nice, congrats. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 803 | From: Bay Area | Registered: Jul 2002
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
who built the aod and do you street race?
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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jayl
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Member # 185
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is that turbo kit a mainstream available kit? or custom fabbed?? and how is the T76 on the street ? and what size stall, gear and tire? thanks !
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Facebook.com/TeamTemporary
8.5's TTFBitch!
Posts: 3821 | From: Hayward | Registered: Mar 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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Sounds like a pretty sweet & relatively simple setup.
What camshaft and octane gas do you run? With 19 degrees (total?) I'm assuming 91?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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turbo302
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Member # 2786
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posted
Thanks for the interest you guys, we've got to get more turbo cars out here on the West Coast ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I've never had my car on the scales, but I think it weighs anywhere between 3,100-3,400 lbs. As far as the power goes, I tuned the car on the dyno at ATP turbo, I made 567 hp to the wheels & 639 ftlb of torque! That was at 14lbs of boost. That's about 660 hp at the crank, I actually detuned the motor(stock block with girdle)12lbs of boost 517 hp & 590 ftlbs of torque to the wheels (which is about 640 at the crank). That's where I left it.
I run a Trickflow girdle. I never planned on making this much power with the stock block, but it just responded well to conservative tuning (12-14lbs of boost). With the R block my plan is to push that motor with 20-25 psi of boost. That's really where the T76 turbo wants to make the power.
The AOD transmission is just as strong as the C4 when it is properly built. My transmission was built by a good friend of mine Grant at "Grant & Dan's Transmission" in Fremont. Art Car 9in turbo converter solid one piece input shaft, PA manual valve body, and other crap I can't remember, but it works good.
66 AC Cobra - A properly sized single turbo setup would be just as good as twins, it would be more practical & a lot less plumbing (intercooler, throttle body, etc.)
I forgot to mention the PSCA race in Sacramento on the 4th & 5th of July. Show your support for trbo50 (Norman Chang) and all the rest of the PSCA racers in Northern CA. It should be fun to see some of the fastest cars on the West Coast. I heard Norman's car is insane! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Thanks again for the interest, if you have any more questions I'll respond back ASAP.
- turbo302 Sheldon ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Big Boy Racing Fabrications
P.S. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to answer your questions.
[ May 08, 2003, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: turbo302 ]
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turbo302
10.20/133
Big Boy Racing Fabrication
www.bigboyracing.com
Posts: 83 | From: bay area | Registered: May 2003
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jayl
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Member # 185
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posted
thanks for the info man! do you mind sharin how much that aod setup cost ya? or was that a hook up price?
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Facebook.com/TeamTemporary
8.5's TTFBitch!
Posts: 3821 | From: Hayward | Registered: Mar 2001
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turbo302
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Member # 2786
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posted
To the late crew, yes, it was kind-of a hook-up price. I bought the valve body from Performace Automatic, the converter came from Art Carr and the solid one-piece shaft (which is very critical when making power with AOD's). Grant did all the rest of the work on the tranny with his tricks, he does a lot of racing Buick Grand National AOD's also. I strongly recommend Grant for any racing transmissions in the Bay Area, give him a call if you're interested (510)742-8726, tell him you talked to Sheldon. The turbo kit is Turbo Technology race kit with T76 turbo, it is awesome on the street, I can be going 70 on the highway & blow the tires off. ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
355 gears, you could even run a lower gear, turbos make a ton of torque. The converter is 3,000 stall. The octane was 114, 28-10.5 m/t ET's. Yeah, I know, only 19 degrees of timing, I have a lot left in it still.
- turbo302
Big Boy Racing Fabrications
[ May 08, 2003, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: turbo302 ]
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turbo302
10.20/133
Big Boy Racing Fabrication
www.bigboyracing.com
Posts: 83 | From: bay area | Registered: May 2003
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
i've been there cheering for norm in the first 3 races but it looks like finley just "ruined" the class. hopefully good driving and consistancy can overcome a blown alky 590 big block.
if anyone made a turbo kit for a 351 in a 67 mustang.. i'd have one also. i'm not about to spend the cash to have a kit made just for me though... not right now at least.
What rpm were the hp and torque peaks at?
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Wow, 2 psi made a 50 rwhp difference
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by st5150:
Wow, 2 psi made a 50 rwhp difference
How is that posible though...BOOST is BOOST right?
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
I'm guessing that the T76 quickly drops in efficiency at lower boost levels, but it could be due to a lot of things.
I'm not interesting in knowing/figuring out/internet-guessing why it happened, I was just pointing out an interesting observation.
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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trbo50
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Member # 1671
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posted
Sheldon, you're welcome and you deserve the recognition for your success. I know all about the hard work and the bills we have to pay to get these cars going down the track. I'm also proud of what you have accomplished with a stock block, stock crank. These turbos are just easier on the motors compared to other power adders in my opinion. I ran a stock block, stock crank T72 combo as fast as 9.39 without any problems 4-5 years ago and have been surprised by how few turbo cars are out there in the Bay Area. Keep up the good work, can't wait to see you bust into the 9's.
Norman
Posts: 159 | Registered: Aug 2002
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turbo302
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Member # 2786
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posted
My hp peak on the dyno was at 5,800rpm, the peak could have been higher, but that's where I let my foot off the gas (I didn't want too many rpm on the stock block). Remember, it's not peak numbers that you look for, it's the average. I made over 500hp from 4,100rpm to 5,800rpm, that's the advantage of a turbo. The other advantage is torque, I made over 500ftlbs at 3,100rpm! Just like Norman said, turbos are easier on the motor because you're loading the whole motor. Superchargers tend to load the crank (which is hard on a stock block). The key to making a stock block last is keeping the crank from moving within the mains because that puts extra stress on a stock 5.0 block. This is where (in my opinion) a girdle helps. Look what Norman did with his stock setup (9.39 in the high 140's is just unbelievable for a stock block) he didn't just do this once or twice. I believe he is the record holder for stock block performance.
Timing also plays a part in stock block longevity. (I could go on forever...)
Jeff (I pm'd you): Boost is Boost. You are right to a certain point. Between the 2psi on the dyno I did other things with my fuel map and my timing map, plus the T76 turbo doesn't get to it's efficiency range until above 16lbs of boost. Turbos are more efficient at compressing the air, when you compress anything it gets hot, but the more efficiently you compress it, the less temp. rise you get and the more efficient the entire system is going to be. Other power adders tend to use a more radial type of compressor wheel, (straight bladed) which is not as efficient at compressing air. Don't get me wrong, each power adder has it's advantages, (whether it's nitrous, SC's or turbos) they're all fun.
About the PSCA thing, I think Norman can be more consistant and reliable than Finley's Mountain Motor blown car.
Thanks for the replies! (I gotta go to work) ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
- turbo302 Sheldon
Big Boy Racing Fabrications
[ May 09, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: turbo302 ]
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turbo302
10.20/133
Big Boy Racing Fabrication
www.bigboyracing.com
Posts: 83 | From: bay area | Registered: May 2003
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Stimson
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Member # 51
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posted
Norman- Rumor has it your stock block was "half filled". Any truth to this?
Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jun 2000
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Jeff S
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Member # 371
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quote:
Originally posted by turbo302:
Boost is Boost. You are right to a certain point. Between the 2psi on the dyno I did other things with my fuel map and my timing map, plus the T76 turbo doesn't get to it's efficiency range until above 16lbs of boost. Turbos are more efficient at compressing the air, when you compress anything it gets hot, but the more efficiently you compress it, the less temp. rise you get and the more efficient the entire system is going to be. Other power adders tend to use a more radial type of compressor wheel, (straight bladed) which is not as efficient at compressing air. Don't get me wrong, each power adder has it's advantages, (whether it's nitrous, SC's or turbos) they're all fun.
I was actually giving ST5150 a hard time since he claims that "boost is boost" and in my opinion it is not. Reasons why are efficiency % of the compressors, how much HP is takes to spin the supercharger, how much power is used to spool a turbo, ect...
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'90 Mustang LX: 8.53 @ 157.92 w/ 1.33 60' on DR's
'10 ZR1: FOR SALE
'14 E63 S: RENNtech ECU
'04 Gallardo: UGR TTG
Posts: 2121 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Aug 2001
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trbo50
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Member # 1671
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ST5151, no my block was not filled. The 398 in my car now is filled.
Norman
Posts: 159 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Chris M.
Ignore me, all I do is argue online!
Member # 1708
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by trbo50:
ST5151, no my block was not filled. The 398 in my car now is filled.
Norman
when you get tired of those brodix heads you can give them to me. I'll even come pick them up.
Posts: 2828 | From: West Bay, CA | Registered: Aug 2002
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