This is topic HELP on HCI Swap!!! how must boost can a stock 302 withstand?.. in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .
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Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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I have been thinking about this time and time again. I WANT TO HCI on my fox. At the moment times are rough ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I want to rebuild the motor, but I'm going with a budget build.
I was thinking ported GT-40 heads with upgraded springs and 1.7 roller rockers (Not sure on brand), TF stage one cam, gear drive, and possibly a holley intake if i can find one for a reasonable price.
What do you guys think? I want the TF stage one cam because I love the loping sound, but also want performance out of it. A gentlemen told me a while back that i should stay away from letter cams like E and F.
Please throw out your opinions....
Charles ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
[ 2014-04-09, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: KARATExxCHUCK ]
Posted by Pure Stang (Member # 7251) on
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By the time you port and upgrade your springs your in aluminum heads territory and they will be better than ported gt40's. some trick flows or afr's, even edelbrocks. Good choice on intake.... Why gear drive? There's a rason why no one uses that on foxes, but don't remember the reason.
Posted by moeofit32 (Member # 10393) on
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Be patient and spend the money..its worth it....good set of aluminum heads pop up cheap every now and again
Posted by Greasy (Member # 5258) on
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Please for the love of god do not run gear drive.
Posted by Built88LX (Member # 10758) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Greasy:
Please for the love of god do not run gear drive.
What are some pros and cons of using gear drive?
Posted by Greasy (Member # 5258) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Built88LX:
quote:
Originally posted by Greasy:
Please for the love of god do not run gear drive.
What are some pros and cons of using gear drive?
Don't know, don't care, I've never had issues running timing chains. Plus gear drive is Chevy shit.
Posted by TMA Turbo Donald (Member # 11926) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Built88LX:
quote:
Originally posted by Greasy:
Please for the love of god do not run gear drive.
What are some pros and cons of using gear drive?
I had a "noisy" gear drive on a Chevy. The gear drive sound got old real quick.
Posted by red5o (Member # 12651) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by KARATExxCHUCK:
I have been thinking about this time and time again. I WANT TO HCI on my fox. At the moment times are rough
I want to rebuild the motor, but I'm going with a budget build.
I was thinking ported GT-40 heads with upgraded springs and 1.7 roller rockers (Not sure on brand), TF stage one cam, gear drive, and possibly a holley intake if i can find one for a reasonable price.
What do you guys think? I want the TF stage one cam because I love the loping sound, but also want performance out of it. A gentlemen told me a while back that i should stay away from letter cams like E and F.
Please throw out your opinions....
Charles
That's a good set up I doing somthing similar myself
Ported Gt40 heads with 1.6 or 1.7 (not sure yet)
E303 cam
Still debating on intake
Just do the math as far as the heads if you are gonna spend more than 600-650 on them I rather wait
[ 2014-04-06, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: red5o ]
Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on
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Dont do a gear drive, it will rob power over a timing chain and be annoying as fuck. When I was young and dumb I had one on my first 347. Just get a good timing chain.
Posted by red5o (Member # 12651) on
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I was going with the Alex spring kit which I was told is realy good for a budget build
http://www.alexsparts.com/sb-ford-gt40-drop-in-valve-springs-kit-hyd-roller-580-lift/
OR
http://www.alexsparts.com/dual-valve-spring-kit-fe-ford-w-moderate-to-large-perormance-cams/
It's only like 20 bucks more to up grade them
[ 2014-04-06, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: red5o ]
Posted by 2BlueGeeTees (Member # 4702) on
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I will tell you this from experience. The balance between budget and performance is not satisfying at all. Let me explain, and I'm sure other members will agree from their young and dumb days. You will be unhappy either way. 1. You will love the performance but blow your budget to shreds. 2. Stay within your budget and not see the gains you want. I'm speaking here particularly about H/C/I. Because lord knows you can get a deal on a power adder and some gears and fly in a fox. This is purely my opinion but if your goal is a nice heads cam and intake fox with good power numbers and good drivability. Save your $$$ and do it right. Don't buy parts that you will soon pull off and sell for less money to fund the right part. Rebuild your short block and bump your compression up a little. Aluminum heads are going to be your ticket. Do your research. Are you trying to stay emissions legal? Matching your components will pay dividends. Adding cubic inches is always worth something. In the end you do what makes you happy. Just wanted you to have some food for thought from those who stood in your shoes years ago.
PS. Ditch the gear drive idea. Like previously stated robs power, they wear excessively and what an annoying sound
Posted by racsirx (Member # 1710) on
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If you aren't worried about smog then leave the motor stock and put a good turbo kit on it and it would make more power around the same price
Posted by Saleen 00-0768 (Member # 9379) on
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gear drive is gay as fuck. My neighbor up the street has it on his stingray and it sounds like shit. Very loud and not cool in any way. You can always tell when a car is gear driven.
Posted by Saleen 00-0768 (Member # 9379) on
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I'd recommend TF170s and a custom cam with atleast a gt40 intake and port the lower.
FYI gt40 heads are a waste of your money, time, and effort.
[ 2014-04-06, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Saleen 00-0768 ]
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on
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Holley intake will be to big for 302 especially those heads..its a mismatched combo..those heads and cam and for low end power while the intake is for top end power..
Get trick flow street heat, edelbrock rpm or ported explorer. .
Im about to run a t moss ported explorer with afr 165 heads and a comp cam xe270hr. My combo will pull hard all the way to 6000rpm
Posted by CobramanPhil (Member # 2170) on
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First question..how is the compression going on the motor? If everything is within acceptable levels then why don't you just nitrous the thing? Instant gratification..just make sure your timing and fuel are in check and you won't have to worry about the hci stuff until you save enough money for a real block for that stuff to go on...
[ 2014-04-06, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
Posted by *BlownMach1*- TRMYN8R (Member # 5400) on
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Gear drive- Aka white trash supercharger! Lol
Don't put that garbage in your car. It sounds like ass!
Posted by warhorse58gt (Member # 7702) on
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All you people bitching about gears drives.
Pros. Won't break, Last forever, Sounds sick (well if you can hear them) I have a noisy set and can't really even hear them over the solid rollers valve lash.
Cons. You can only degree the cam at about 2* at a time. On cold start ups the link bar gear slaps the timing chain cover.
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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Thank you to all who replied!!!!
It looks like i will end up saving for a nice set of heads and intake. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
AND I WILL NOT BE GETTING A GEAR DRIVE!! lol
Charles
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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quote:
Originally posted by racsirx:
If you aren't worried about smog then leave the motor stock and put a good turbo kit on it and it would make more power around the same price
I am worried about smog or i would. Around where i live cops pull you over to check for carb eo numbers on aftermarket parts and if you dont have it they give you a fix it ticket. ALL BECAUSE OF STUPID HONDA LOVERS!!! ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Posted by i (Member # 12534) on
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Look best setup ever it will smoke ls1 brah ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
302 running on 87, b303 cam , gt40 heads ported with 1.6 roller rockers, cobra intake ported, 90mm bbk throttle with 24 pounds of injectors, 255 bbk fuel pump,bbk shorties unequal,Off ride xpipe, flow master 40s with chrome tail pipes, 20inch cobra's, rattle can the car with black and last but not least have a 5in cowl hood! My dream car
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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How much boost can a stock 302 motor withstand?
Posted by Blow_U_In_Reverse (Member # 12298) on
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quote:
Originally posted by KARATExxCHUCK:
How much boost can a stock 302 motor withstand?
I was pumping 14psi on a stock motor and it held on fine.. but most say about 8-10.. I kno people daily driving with 10-12 psi with no issues..
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on
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Theirs a local guy that had a vortech v1 on 11 psi completely stock motor ..no aftermarket intake or tb..he made 320rwhp I believe
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ed650:
Theirs a local guy that had a vortech v1 on 11 psi completely stock motor ..no aftermarket intake or tb..he made 320rwhp I believe
Fiji and Ed what robs the engine of the power the most? I know the heads play a good role, but does the intake do it as well?
[ 2014-04-09, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: KARATExxCHUCK ]
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on
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Intake is restrictive as well. If your going to supercharge it and not use the tfs cam than sell the cam and use the money towards an aftermarket intake. Also get some 1.7 roller rockers.
Posted by Stanced Stang (Member # 11891) on
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quote:
Originally posted by warhorse58gt:
All you people bitching about gears drives.
Pros. Won't break, Last forever, Sounds sick (well if you can hear them) I have a noisy set and can't really even hear them over the solid rollers valve lash.
Cons. You can only degree the cam at about 2* at a time. On cold start ups the link bar gear slaps the timing chain cover.
I agree with warhorse. Do what YOU want to do to your car. I have a gear drive in my 85, I dont mind it. It probably will go in favor of a timing chain if the cover ever comes off again, but until then, I'm content with it.
Posted by Blow_U_In_Reverse (Member # 12298) on
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The intake is super restrictive on stock motors.. if u have a tfs1 cam then put it in with a gt40 or edelbrock performer intake.. throw like 10psi to it and ull love it.. u wont be worried about burning rubber everywhere and ull definately get a lil whiplash from the setup haha even with a stock HO cam, ull be in the low 300 range at the wheels with 10psi and a decent intake.. just make sure u upgrade ur fuel system though.. atleast a 255lph intank and a booster inline pump (T-rex, or something like that)..
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on
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Also how many miles on your motor ? I haven't owned a supercharger but I was told a supercharger will eventually kill your motor if its high mileage..hci will keep your motor last longer. I was planning on getting a supercharger but with the money your going to spend on a USED kit you can buy brand new trickflow heads for 1200... My opinion is do it the right way and rebuild your bottom end and throw on hci on it. Im currently doing my first build. I have a 0 mile rebuilt 306 still waiting for me to pick up at the machine shop. .brand new afr heads, new rockers new lifters , new harmonic balancer, new gaskets..used gt40 intake that is ported to match the afr heads and a used comp cams..so far im under $3000 and its almost complete.. it does seem like a lot of cash but I know it will last me a long time and wont have to pull it out any time soon.
[ 2014-04-09, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: ed650 ]
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Blow_U_In_Reverse:
The intake is super restrictive on stock motors.. if u have a tfs1 cam then put it in with a gt40 or edelbrock performer intake.. throw like 10psi to it and ull love it.. u wont be worried about burning rubber everywhere and ull definately get a lil whiplash from the setup haha even with a stock HO cam, ull be in the low 300 range at the wheels with 10psi and a decent intake.. just make sure u upgrade ur fuel system though.. atleast a 255lph intank and a booster inline pump (T-rex, or something like that)..
Is the upgraded fuel pump absolutely necessary or can I run stock pump.?
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ed650:
Also how many miles on your motor ? I haven't owned a supercharger but I was told a supercharger will eventually kill your motor if its high mileage..hci will keep your motor last longer. I was planning on getting a supercharger but with the money your going to spend on a USED kit you can buy brand new trickflow heads for 1200... My opinion is do it the right way and rebuild your bottom end and throw on hci on it. Im currently doing my first build. I have a 0 mile rebuilt 306 still waiting for me to pick up at the machine shop. .brand new afr heads, new rockers new lifters , new harmonic balancer, new gaskets..used gt40 intake that is ported to match the afr heads and a used comp cams..so far im under $3000 and its almost complete.. it does seem like a lot of cash but I know it will last me a long time and wont have to pull it out any time soon
I have about 89k miles Ed
Posted by Blow_U_In_Reverse (Member # 12298) on
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quote:
Originally posted by KARATExxCHUCK:
quote:
Originally posted by Blow_U_In_Reverse:
The intake is super restrictive on stock motors.. if u have a tfs1 cam then put it in with a gt40 or edelbrock performer intake.. throw like 10psi to it and ull love it.. u wont be worried about burning rubber everywhere and ull definately get a lil whiplash from the setup haha even with a stock HO cam, ull be in the low 300 range at the wheels with 10psi and a decent intake.. just make sure u upgrade ur fuel system though.. atleast a 255lph intank and a booster inline pump (T-rex, or something like that)..
Is the upgraded fuel pump absolutely necessary or can I run stock pump.?
I would do atleast the 255 intank.. why risk ur whole motor over a $150 part and like 30 minz of labor..
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on
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89k miles? How is the mileage so low for a car that is 20+ years old ..you might want to do a carfax and make sure its not 189k. My car has 133k original miles and it was sitting from 97 to 2012
Posted by racsirx (Member # 1710) on
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You going to have to upgrade the fuel pump regardless if you do a HCI or Blower, choose the right blower you will like it better than HCI, boost varies from motor to motor with a blower not like a turbo, the more efficient the motor the less boost you will see with a blower, I won't worry about boost level, I would be more worried about hp levels with a stock block and impeller speeds to reduce inlet air temps, like a S-trim V1 with a 2.95 blower pulley and 6.87 crank pulley and wasn't planning on shifting above 6K rpm would work fine for daily use, if you want to shift higher I would use a bigger blower pulley, good blowers can add 100-200hp depending on how you set them up, which be perfect since a stock block is only good for 450hp at the motor.
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ed650:
89k miles? How is the mileage so low for a car that is 20+ years old ..you might want to do a carfax and make sure its not 189k. My car has 133k original miles and it was sitting from 97 to 2012
I don't have a carfax account. I bought iy from an old man who had it sitting in his garage. He was the first owner I think. He put the miles on it when he was younger and it sat in his garage. He got tired of paying insurance for it and not driving it and he sold it to me.
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by racsirx:
You going to have to upgrade the fuel pump regardless if you do a HCI or Blower, choose the right blower you will like it better than HCI, boost varies from motor to motor with a blower not like a turbo, the more efficient the motor the less boost you will see with a blower, I won't worry about boost level, I would be more worried about hp levels with a stock block and impeller speeds to reduce inlet air temps, like a S-trim V1 with a 2.95 blower pulley and 6.87 crank pulley and wasn't planning on shifting above 6K rpm would work fine for daily use, if you want to shift higher I would use a bigger blower pulley, good blowers can add 100-200hp depending on how you set them up, which be perfect since a stock block is only good for 450hp at the motor. [/QUOTE
Hmm I better upgrade it then. I'm not sure on the model he has, but one of the members messaged me saying he had a complete kit.
What I'm most likely going to do is upgrade my fuel system, intake, and supercharge it. Have some fun daily drive it to work and when I can upgrade heads and everything else later on. Also make sure I shift under 6k RPM.
Thank You Racsirx
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